Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Glen Prideaux]

Is it possible that the new server has two installations of Mailman in 
different locations, and the one referenced by the startup script (that can't 
find the lists) is different from the one you are accessing manually? 

Glen

> From: a...@alv.cl
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration
> Date: 17 July 2013 8:38:12 AM AWST
> To: mailman-users@python.org
> 
> 
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 at 12:28pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> This makes no sense.
> 
> Yes, that's why I'm so puzzled.
> 
> 
>> Does bin/list_lists list both the old and the newly created, working lists?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
>> Are the mode and group of the lists/LISTNAME directories and the 
>> lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files the same for all lists?
> 
> Yes, all files and directories belong to mailman, and mailman group.
> 
> 
>> Does 'bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck' produce appropriate output for 
>> both old and new lists?
> 
> They both seem consistent. Is there anything in particular I should look more 
> carefully?
> 
> 
>> Does mail to the newly created lists work?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
>> Does the old server still exist, and if so is there some possible
>> confusion between IPs and DNS so something is looking at the wrong
>> machine?
> 
> The old server no longer exists. There's no chance of confusing because I'm 
> sending the test mails from the mailman server itself.
> 
> 
>> Try 'grep -r xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx /usr/lib/mailman /var/lib/mailman'
>> where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is the old IP. There should be no reference by IP,
>> but ...?
> 
> As you suggested I did that, but all I found was references to the old IP in 
> the archives.
> 
> Somehow the old lists are registered somewhere else and the "service mailman 
> start" doesn't know where and refuses to start without a list called mailman.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> -alv-

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Alvaro Navarro]

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 at 6:42pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:


[...]



If you are running SELinux, try disabling it.


Mark, you rock :-)

That was it!

Thank you very much!


-alv-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Migration to a new server: recommendations for testing the new Mailman server before changing DNS records; also how to avoid lost/bounced messages during change-over?

[David]

see below

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 07/16/2013 06:39 PM, David wrote:
> >
> > Here's what the sysadmin ended up doing.
> >
> > First, he added our domain in postfix mydestination but it didn't help
> > so he did these steps:
> >
> > 1) Added our domain in relay_domains
> >
> > 2) Added the following in in master.cf 
> >
> > mailman unix - n n - - pipe
> > flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
> > ${nexthop} ${user}
>
>
> I think this is the first mention of postfix-to-mailman.py in this
> thread. My advice to ensure that the list domain was in mydestination
> was based on my incorrect assumption that you were using aliases.
>
> You and your sysadmin may find the FAQ at 
> and the post at
>  >
> which is linked therefrom to be of interest.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>


Yes, this is the first mention of postfix-to-mailman.py in this thread. I
did not know what it was until I read your links.

And your assumption was *not* incorrect. We *are* using aliases!

>From the links you provided, I see this quote:

"postfix_to_mailman.py is an alternative to and is incompatible with
Mailman delivery via aliases."

So we have a problem here...

BTW, my sysadmin doesn't know Mailman.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Migration to a new server: recommendations for testing the new Mailman server before changing DNS records; also how to avoid lost/bounced messages during change-over?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/16/2013 06:39 PM, David wrote:
> 
> Here's what the sysadmin ended up doing.
> 
> First, he added our domain in postfix mydestination but it didn't help
> so he did these steps:
> 
> 1) Added our domain in relay_domains
> 
> 2) Added the following in in master.cf 
> 
> mailman unix - n n - - pipe
> flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
> ${nexthop} ${user}


I think this is the first mention of postfix-to-mailman.py in this
thread. My advice to ensure that the list domain was in mydestination
was based on my incorrect assumption that you were using aliases.

You and your sysadmin may find the FAQ at 
and the post at

which is linked therefrom to be of interest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/16/2013 05:38 PM, a...@alv.cl wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 at 12:28pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> Does 'bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck' produce appropriate output
>> for both old and new lists?
> 
> They both seem consistent. Is there anything in particular I should look
> more carefully?


No, I was only interested in whether they produced appropriate output as
opposed to an exception and traceback. You might look at web_page_url
for web server issues (see below), but that shouldn't affect postfix.


> Somehow the old lists are registered somewhere else and the "service
> mailman start" doesn't know where and refuses to start without a list
> called mailman.


Yes. This is consistent with Postfix not finding the old lists.

Look at /etc/init.d/mailman. Is it running the same mailmanctl as you
are running by hand.

Look in every aliases file referenced by Postfix in alias_maps. There
should at least be /etc/aliases and /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases and
maybe others. Are there duplicate aliases for any mailman lists. Do they
all point to the same wrapper (/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman).

When you said the web server doesn't recognize the old lists, did you
mean just they don't appear on http://example.com/mailman/listinfo or
that also you get a 'no such list' from
http://example.com/mailman/listinfo/listname.

Continuing to grasp at straws, try

sudo find / -name config.pck

Does that return more than just the one
/var/lib/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/config.pck for the new lists.

If you are running SELinux, try disabling it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Migration to a new server: recommendations for testing the new Mailman server before changing DNS records; also how to avoid lost/bounced messages during change-over?

[David]

see below

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 07/08/2013 01:29 PM, David wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> >
> > If the mail server on the new box thinks list domains are in its
> local
> > delivery space (mydestination in Postfix), you can just send mail
> from
> > an MUA on the local box configured to deliver via SMTP to the local
> MTA,
> > and it all should work except that mail from Mailman to local
> addresses
> > will be delivered to the new box instead of the current live box.
> >
> >
> > The new box has no GUI. The OS is Debian 6.
> > $ uname -r
> > 3.9.3-x86_64-linode33
> >
> > The MUA is:
> > heirloom-mailx
> > $ mailx -V
> > 12.5 6/20/10
> >
> > The MTA is postfix. (For some reason I can't run "postconf -d | grep
> > mail_version" so I'll have to ask the sysadmin later about that. But at
> > the moment, I don't know the postfix version.)
> >
> > Given that info, which settings changes should I make to proceed with
> > the testing plan you described above?
> >
> > So far all I did was:
> > 1. create a ~/.mailrc file with contents:
> >
> > set smtp=localhost
>
>
> If that tells mailx to send via smtp to localhost, that's good.
>
>
> > 2. edit /etc/postfix/main.cf  and change mydestination
> > to the line below:
> > mydestination = localhost, localhost.localdomain
>
>
> If I understood correctly, this is not what you want. My understanding
> is you have an old (current) box with a domain and an IP and DNS for the
> domain pointing to the IP, and after the switch the domain and IP will
> be those of the new box, but for now, the new box has a different IP.
>
> If this is the case, you should not be making any changes to main.cf
> over what you want after the switch, i.e. it should look like that on
> the old box.
>
> Now, in this configuration, list mail should be delivered locally, so if
> you send mail from the local MUA on the new box to a list address, the
> MUA will deliver it to the local Postfix and that in turn will deliver
> it to the local Mailman.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Here's what the sysadmin ended up doing.

First, he added our domain in postfix mydestination but it didn't help so
he did these steps:

1) Added our domain in relay_domains

2) Added the following in in master.cf

mailman unix - n n - - pipe
flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
${nexthop} ${user}

3) Added our domain in transport
Now we can test using a local MUA (mailx) with SMTP set to localhost.
Without the steps above, it just was not working (i.e., we were not able to
successfully send test messages to the list).

I am posting this follow-up for a few reasons. Primarily, I would
appreciate any feedback that I can pass along to our sysadmin.

And since I really don't understand the overall ramifications of the
changes above, I would enjoy learning something if there are any comments.
For example, I assume we'll have to undo those changes when we go live, and
I always hate to make any last minute changes because of the possibility
that something will stop working as a result of those changes.

Finally, if anyone else needs to try what I'm doing, this info is relevant.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[alv]

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 at 12:28pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:


This makes no sense.


Yes, that's why I'm so puzzled.


Does bin/list_lists list both the old and the newly created, working 
lists?


Yes.


Are the mode and group of the lists/LISTNAME directories and the 
lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files the same for all lists?


Yes, all files and directories belong to mailman, and mailman group.


Does 'bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck' produce appropriate output 
for both old and new lists?


They both seem consistent. Is there anything in particular I should look 
more carefully?




Does mail to the newly created lists work?


Yes.



Does the old server still exist, and if so is there some possible
confusion between IPs and DNS so something is looking at the wrong
machine?


The old server no longer exists. There's no chance of confusing because I'm 
sending the test mails from the mailman server itself.




Try 'grep -r xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx /usr/lib/mailman /var/lib/mailman'
where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is the old IP. There should be no reference by IP,
but ...?


As you suggested I did that, but all I found was references to the old IP 
in the archives.


Somehow the old lists are registered somewhere else and the "service 
mailman start" doesn't know where and refuses to start without a 
list called mailman.



Regards


-alv-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/16/2013 07:47 AM, a...@alv.cl wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 at 10:12pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> My best guess is your CentOS mailman (a RedHat package ?) doesn't
>> expect the lists to be in the directory you moved them too. The FAQ at
>>  may help.
> 
> Thank you for answer, Mark.
> 
> When I created a test list after the migration, its files were located
> in the same paths that the ones migrated, so I think unfortunately,
> that's not the problem.


This makes no sense. Does bin/list_lists list both the old and the newly
created, working lists? Are the mode and group of the lists/LISTNAME
directories and the lists/LISTNAME/config.pck files the same for all
lists? Does 'bin/dumpdb lists/LISTNAME/config.pck' produce appropriate
output for both old and new lists? Does mail to the newly created lists
work? Does the old server still exist, and if so is there some possible
confusion between IPs and DNS so something is looking at the wrong
machine? Try 'grep -r xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx /usr/lib/mailman /var/lib/mailman'
where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is the old IP. There should be no reference by IP,
but ...?

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Alvaro Navarro]

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 at 10:10am, Barry S. Finkel wrote:


Does Postfix know where your Mailman alias file is?
Does that alias file contain aliases for all of your lists?
Have you run the newaliases command?
--Barry Finkel


Hi Barry,

Yes, postfix has all the Mailman alias. In fact, the error message received 
when I sent a mail to one of the lists made reference to one of those 
alias:


Command died with status 1: "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
   post some-list". Command output: post script, list not found: some-list

Best regards


-alv-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/15/2013 9:49 AM, a...@alv.cl wrote:


Hi,

I just migrated my mailman installation from an old fedora server to a
new centos server.

I followed the instructions described here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-January/055208.html

The URLs remained the same, but the IP changed.

If I try to start the mailman service, it says:

# service mailman start
Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman

If I run list_lists, it shows all the lists I migrated (including mailman).

I used mailmanctl instead and it worked:

# ./mailmanctl start
Starting Mailman's master qrunner.

But none of the old lists are recognized. Sending a mail to any of them
results in a bounced message:

Command died with status 1: "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
post some-list". Command output: post script, list not found: some-list

Web interface doesn't recognize old lists either.

I created a new list and it worked like a charm.

I tried fixing perms with check_perms, but nothing.

What am I missing?


Thanks in advance for your help!


-alv-
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Does Postfix know where your Mailman alias file is?
Does that alias file contain aliases for all of your lists?
Have you run the newaliases command?
--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after server migration

[alv]

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 at 10:12pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:

My best guess is your CentOS mailman (a RedHat package ?) doesn't expect 
the lists to be in the directory you moved them too. The FAQ at 
 may help.


Thank you for answer, Mark.

When I created a test list after the migration, its files were located in 
the same paths that the ones migrated, so I think unfortunately, that's not 
the problem.


Regards


-alv-
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