Re: [Mailman-Users] Reducing false positives with spam markings with Gmail, etc.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Cedric Knight writes:
 > Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote on Wed Nov 20 2013:

 > >  > Are most mailman hosts finding their mail in Gmail heading to the
 > >  > "Promotions" tab or "Forums" optional tab?
 > > 
 > > I don't receive any Mailman mail at my Gmail address, so I can't say.

Recently I do get some Mailman mail at my Gmail address, and I've
never seen it in the Promotions folder.  Nor have any of the xemacs
subscribers I've talked to.  But these are all programming-related
lists; it may be that Gmail's "AI" realizes that there's no way this
is a sales pitch.

It occurs to me now that if someone has a "Forums" tab, I would expect
Mailman mail to got there if and only if Mailman uses the RFC 2369
headers (possibly with the exception of List-Unsubscribe) and/or the
RFC 2919 List-Id header.  You can turn these off.

 > I've had complaints about this specifically with list *confirmation
 > emails* being being misclassified under "promotions", resulting in some
 > users assuming they are subscribed when they haven't actually confirmed.

That I can't help with.  As Mark suggests the "Precedence: bulk"
header may confuse some MUAs like Gmail.

 > Any more evidence?  Do any standards help decide if Gmail or Mailman is
 > wrong?

There are no standards for classifying mail, really.  I would say
Gmail is wrong, though, because confirmation emails are very easy to
recognize, and very urgent to most users (consider password reset).
Mailman might be able to help by trying to mimic the typical password
reset confirmation mail.

The problem may be that phishers often use mail that looks like a
confirmation mail, but then you should get a phishing warning.  Or
maybe the issue is that Mailman allows confirmation by email, where
most password confirmations require going to a specific web address.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-Members Get Messages

[Farokh Irani]

They were originally subscribed under some other email address (now long 
forgotten) and that email address is still valid and has forwarding set 
up. You can verify what is going on by getting the full headers of the 
message(s) in question (something not always so easy to do).


Farokh

MCF Software...simply dependably engineered
For all your computer and networking needs including hosting solutions
for every need.
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Peter Fiala - WCASA 
March 20, 2014 14:05
Mailman Community,

I've been a Mailman user for a few years but have never been able to 
figure out this mystery, which may be completely obvious I realize. 
Someone emails me and requests to be taken off the list. I go to 
remove them and they are not members. They confirm that they are not 
on the list under any other email address. How could this possibly happen?


Thanks anyone for your help.

Peter

Peter Fiala
Technology & Events Coordinator
Wisconsin Coalition Against Sexual Assault (WCASA)
2801 W. Beltline Hwy., Ste 202, Madison, WI 53713
Telephone: 608-257-1516; Direct: 608-284-5494
Fax: 608-257-2150
Website: www.wcasa.org

Creating the Social Change Necessary to End Sexual Violence
Please consider a holiday gift to help us continue our important work 
into 2014. You can make donations to WCASA directly online by visiting 
our website.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages addressed to Mailman lists are systematically diverted to predefined default email account

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/20/2014 04:54 PM, Jacques Setton wrote:
> 
> In conclusion, it turns out that even domain differentiation does not solve
> the problem. It thus seems as if  Plesk's supervision of Postfix does not
> cope well with the standard operation Mailman's lists. 
> 
> This is very puzzling as Parallels claims that Mailman is officially
> supported by Plesk V10+ . On such configured systems, Mailman is even
> activated directly from Plesk's Control Pannel - see their Manual section
> about this in the second attachment.


Please (re)read the FAQ at .


> So my ultimate question will simply be : has anyone ever succeeded in
> adequately deploying Mailman over a Plesk-based Linux server ? If this is
> the case, I would invite anyone who has done it before to let us know how
> they managed to make it work as expected.


The above referenced FAQ says in part "It is possible to trick Plesk
into recognizing newer versions installed manually but it's not for the
faint of heart."

There may be someone on this list that can tell you more than that, but
I can't.

The implication is you should use the Mailman packaged with Plesk and
follow Plesk's documentation and get help from Plesk resources, and
after you get that working you might consider trying to upgrade Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-Members Get Messages

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/20/2014 11:05 AM, Peter Fiala - WCASA wrote:
> Mailman Community,
> 
> I've been a Mailman user for a few years but have never been able to figure 
> out this mystery, which may be completely obvious I realize. Someone emails 
> me and requests to be taken off the list. I go to remove them and they are 
> not members. They confirm that they are not on the list under any other email 
> address. How could this possibly happen?


You need to obtain one of the "list" mails from the user and examine all
the headers of that message. This will tell you two things:

That the message did in fact come from your Mailman list if it did.

And if it did, most likely there will be information in the Received:
headers that will reveal the member address that Mailman sent to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-Members Get Messages

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/20/2014 11:05 AM, Peter Fiala - WCASA wrote:

Someone emails me and requests to be taken off the list. I go to remove
them and they are not members. They confirm that they are not on the list
under any other email address. How could this possibly happen?


Have you checked both the mailman and smtp logs to see if the address is 
being sent the mail by mailman? It's possible that some other entity is 
forwarding or redirecting the email.


z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages addressed to Mailman lists are systematically diverted to predefined default email account

[Jacques Setton]

MEMO RESENT with minor corrections 
-Message d'origine-
De : Jacques Setton [mailto:jset...@waycast.com] 
Envoyé : vendredi 21 mars 2014 00:26
À : 'Mark Sapiro'
Cc : 'mailman-users@python.org'
Objet : RE: [Mailman-Users] Messages addressed to Mailman lists are
systematically diverted to predefined default email account

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your appreciated comments to which I responded individually :
see the embedded annotations further below...

I did modify some of the parameters you  highlighted. Unfortunately, at best
the previously observed problem still persists despite the modifications
made. In other instances, some modifications cause the alteration of
Postfix' operation which results in a non-delivery of all emails...

To further investigate the issue, I have decided to use two separate domains
attached to same VPS machine as follows :

1) 'domain.info' for incoming & outgoing messages addressed to and from
mails solely related to Mailman lists.

2) 'domain.net' for all non-Mailman lists incoming & outgoing regular
messages.  

The test results show - see the 1st attachment - that all messages addressed
to Mailman accounts (like testl...@domain.info and
testlist-requ...@domain.info )  are systematically diverted to the
previously specified default account ad...@domain.fr . Whereas messages
addressed to standard email accounts (for ex. admin-li...@domain.net ) get
through without any problem...

In conclusion, it turns out that even domain differentiation does not solve
the problem. It thus seems as if  Plesk's supervision of Postfix does not
cope well with the standard operation Mailman's lists. 

This is very puzzling as Parallels claims that Mailman is officially
supported by Plesk V10+ . On such configured systems, Mailman is even
activated directly from Plesk's Control Pannel - see their Manual section
about this in the second attachment.

So my ultimate question will simply be : has anyone ever succeeded in
adequately deploying Mailman over a Plesk-based Linux server ? If this is
the case, I would invite anyone who has done it before to let us know how
they managed to make it work as expected.

Many thanks in advance for your and others help on this, as I have spent an
enormous amount of time trying to resolve the case without any success so
far...

Kind regards,
  
 Jacques Setton
 jset...@waycast.com  
   
-Message d'origine-
De : Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] Envoyé : vendredi 14 mars 2014
03:13 À : mailman-users@python.org Objet : Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages
addressed to Mailman lists are systematically diverted to predefined default
email account

On 03/13/2014 11:59 AM, Jacques Setton wrote:
> 
> For example, in the below maillog trace we see that the memo initially 
> addressed to mysl...@domain.net by admin-eur...@waycast.eu is finally 
> delivered to the default account ad...@domain.net instead of being 
> processed by '/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist' as it should 
> normally be the case :

>> But we don't see why? Strangely enough, there is no Postfix log entry
saying anything about the redirect from orig_to= to
to=. Also, there is a 2 and a half minute delay between
receipt of the message and delivery (delays=0.1/0.01/60/90) of which 60
seconds is connection setup time including DNS, HELO and TLS; and 90 seconds
is message transmission time. Does this seem OK?

I am not sure why there a such long delay before mail rejection and
rerouting. As previously indicated, this behavior seems to result from an
non recognition of a Mailman related recipient account which requires a
different treatment, as opposed to standard user email accounts.

>> Anyway, this can occur if there is a virtual mapping from 
>> myl...@domain.net to ad...@domain.fr that is taking priority over 
>> /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman

To my knowledge, such mapping is not established. The only mapping that I am
aware of, in this respect, is one depicted in the 'aliases' file located in
the /var/spool/postfix/plesk directory and which contains the following
mapping :
 drweb  ad...@domain.fr 
 kluser ad...@domain.fr 
 postmaster ad...@domain.fr 
 root   ad...@domain.fr 
 anonymous  ad...@domain.fr 
 drweb-daemon   ad...@domain.fr 
 mailer-daemon  ad...@domain.fr 


> - - -
> [root@vps12345 ~]# more /usr/local/psa/var/log/maillog | grep 
> 1A52911616E
> 
> Mar 11 23:12:27 vps12345 postfix/smtpd[19763]: 1A52911616E:
> client=relay6-d.mail.gandi.net[217.70.183.198]
> 
> Mar 11 23:12:27 vps12345 postfix/cleanup[19767]: 1A52911616E:
> message-id= lMhHAh
> X9PqvkRNi1Uq10BAA==@waycast.eu>
> 
> Mar 11 23:12:27 vps12345 postfix/qmgr[19671]: 1A52911616E:
> from=, size=17420, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> 
> Mar 11 23:14:57 vps129345 postfix/smtp[19770]: 1A52911616E:
> to=, orig_to=, 
> relay=mx1.ovh.net[213.186.33.29]:25, delay=150, delays=0.1/0.01/60/90, 
> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok 1394576096 qp 28763)
> 
> Mar 11 23:14:57 vps12345 postfix/qmgr[19671]: 1A52911616E: removed
> 
>

[Mailman-Users] Non-Members Get Messages

[Peter Fiala - WCASA]

Mailman Community,

I've been a Mailman user for a few years but have never been able to figure out 
this mystery, which may be completely obvious I realize. Someone emails me and 
requests to be taken off the list. I go to remove them and they are not 
members. They confirm that they are not on the list under any other email 
address. How could this possibly happen?

Thanks anyone for your help.

Peter

Peter Fiala
Technology & Events Coordinator
Wisconsin Coalition Against Sexual Assault (WCASA)
2801 W. Beltline Hwy., Ste 202, Madison, WI 53713
Telephone: 608-257-1516; Direct: 608-284-5494
Fax: 608-257-2150
Website: www.wcasa.org

Creating the Social Change Necessary to End Sexual Violence
Please consider a holiday gift to help us continue our important work into 
2014.  You can make donations to WCASA directly online by visiting our 
website.

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