Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015, Peter Shute wrote: Have you ever been in the situation where you're waiting ... Many of us deal with this by creating a message rule that filters the unimportant list mail to a folder to be read at leisure. I have procmail rules which filter particular e-mails to particular folders which I check once per day, but for the mailing list in normal operation I prefer to receive a (sort-of-daily) MIME digest in my main inbox. I have two rules which divert mailing list posts to two folders when I am on holiday (so I can check the main inbox remotely with less messages): one of them is actually linked to /dev/null and is for what I call "secondary" lists, the other one collects the posts of the "primary" lists to be read when I return. It is also possible (at least in mailman lists) to set one's own subscription to "nomail", but if one has many lists, it's too boring to do it (and reset it later) for each list, easier to filter collectively. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list
On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 02:31:08PM +1100, Peter Shute wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > > The default for MS Outlook seems to be HTML rather than Rich Text.
> >
> > What Outlook, Hotmail etc. call "Rich Text" is in fact HTML,
> > not to be confused with Microsoft's interchange Rich Text Format, RTF.
>
> Outlook offers Plain text, HTML and Rich text as formatting options,
> so I assume the Rich text they're talking about might actually be RTF.
I understand that Outlook's Rich Text Format is actually the old
win.dat format:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Neutral_Encapsulation_Format
Recent versions of Outlook apparently automatically convert "Rich Text"
to HTML when you send to "an Internet recipient" (I assume that means a
non-local user when using Exchange), which might explain why selecting
Rich Text in Outlook appears to send HTML, and why win.dat attachments
are now so rare. I don't think I've seen one in the wild for a decade
or more.
https://support.office.com/en-gb/article/Change-the-message-format-to-HTML-Rich-Text-or-plain-text-de2acb3d-3330-42a1-b02a-5f582fc6e796
If anyone cares enough to look for email sent from Outlook, you can
probably determine for yourself what it is sending by inspecting the
MIME type of the attachments, or looking at the raw content of the
email. If you see lots of formatting commands inside angle brackets
< ... > it's probably HTML, if they are inside braces { ... } (but they
won't be ;-) it's probably the Microsoft RTF exchange format, and if you
see a win.dat or winmail.dat attachment it will be "Outlook Rich Text".
--
Steve
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list
In a message of Wed, 25 Mar 2015 08:34:32 +1100, Peter Shute writes: >Thanks for that bit of reply style history! I've only been using >email since quoting became a common feature, so I never saw this >before and after effect. Have you seen a reduction in this "dressing >down" style of reply since top-posting became common? >Peter Shute It is a little hard to know how to interpret the data. The people who are top-posting mostly aren't doing the total-demolition rebut everything you said, line by line, but it is not clear to me that they were doing so in the first place. My gut-sense is that, in the places I frequent, the people doing the top-posting are, for the most part, new additions to the mailreading community. Whether the older and more established part of the community were still doing a lot of this sort of point-by-point had more to do with whether or not they had identified this sort of reply as a source of grief in their communities or not. Some people never figured out that this was one source of the problems they were facing. Plus, there is a certain subset of humanity who thrives on such sort of conflicts, and cannot get enough of it.And should you happen to have a mailing list which is only populated by extremely detail-oriented people, you may find that everybody is most happy with these sorts of exhaustive rebuttals, without ever seeing anything in the 'public humiliation' or 'lack of respect' lines. Your ego cannot get bruised in such altercations if you never had invested it in the first place. Laura -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list
At Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:42:23 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: > > Peter Shute writes: > > > I've seen a plain text section that didn't match the html version > > (if I'm remembering that incident correctly). > > Indeed, occasionally you'll see the arrogant "your MUA doesn't deal > with MIME properly" notice in a text/plain MIME part, rather than in > the preamble. > > > > Nonetheless, IMHO HTMLized email the way of the future so > > > we'd better get used to dealing with it. > > > > Yes, whether we like it or not. It's a pity though that such > > complex HTML is used. Do we really need anything more than the > > ability to bold and underline? I'd be happy with some of the basic > > Structured Text formatting commands, which have the advantage that > > they're still intelligible in plain text. > > You'd be amazed what teenage girls will do in an HTML email using a > WYSIWYG editor. The point of the brain damage is like proprietary Give almost *anyone* a big box of Crayolas, and you almost always get an instant 3 year old... > drivers in the Linux kernel: trying to provide features that the > competition doesn't, in a non-standard way so that they can't just fix > their editors. > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list
On 3/24/2015 10:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > What Outlook, Hotmail etc. call "Rich Text" is in fact HTML, not to be > confused with Microsoft's interchange Rich Text Format, RTF. And Outlook's 'HTML' is badly broken due to its reliance on the Word HTML rendering engine. Why MS decided to change from IE to Word for the rendering engine is inexplicable - unless it was a bran-dead attempt to get people who just buy Outlook to buy the full Office suite (or at least Word too)... -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list
On Wed, 2015-03-25 at 08:49 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: > On 3/24/2015 10:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > What Outlook, Hotmail etc. call "Rich Text" is in fact HTML, not to be > > confused with Microsoft's interchange Rich Text Format, RTF. > > And Outlook's 'HTML' is badly broken due to its reliance on the Word > HTML rendering engine. The Word HTML generator has to be one of the worst WYSIWYG HTML code generators ever published. I've had to do manual repairs on the broken, bloated, ugly HTML which comes out of MS Word. > Why MS decided to change from IE to Word for the rendering engine is > inexplicable - unless it was a bran-dead attempt to get people who just > buy Outlook to buy the full Office suite (or at least Word too)... You can bet that the decision, coming from MS, was based on business considerations rather than any thought of technical merit. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The only unchanging certainty FMP Computer Services |is the certainty of change" 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com| - Ancient wisdom, all cultures -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain confusion
On 03/24/2015 11:24 PM, David Benfell wrote: > > Unfortunately, there appear to be some > boobytraps with Postfix's virtual_alias_maps that are forcing me to set > this aside for now. My existing set-up hadn't been using them; trying to > introduce them created some temporary failures and probably lost some > (but not all) mail. There's simply way too much I don't understand with > postfix. You may also need to add the domain to Postfix's virtual_alias_domains -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Disable any notifications after user subscibes via LISTNAME-join@DOMAIN?
On 03/25/2015 03:46 AM, Danijel Domazet wrote: > Thanks Mark, > > I tried to patch it with: > self.respond = False > but that didn't work. Where did you put that line? > Then I also tried to add immediate return from send_response, like so: > > def send_response(self): > return > # Helper > def indent(lines): > return ['' + line for line in lines] > # Quick exit for some commands which don't need a response > if not self.respond: > return > > > but that also didn't help. > I regenerated pyc and pyo files too. Two things: 1) regenerating .py[co] files is not necessary. Upon import of a module, python will see the .py is newer and load and compile it and if it has permission, write the .py[co] file it will use the next time. 2) More importantly, did you restart Mailman after making the changes? You must do this. The qrunners are persistent processes and will not reload any previously loaded modules unless Mailman is restarted. In general, if you change any .py file in Mailman/ or subordinates except Mailman/Cgi/, you must restart Mailman for the change to be effective. Mailman/Cgi/ is an exception because what's there is only used by web CGI processes which are not persistent. It's also necessary to restart Mailman if you change any templates/ files having to do with the pipermail archive because ArchRunner keeps a cache of templates. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain confusion
Quoting Mark Sapiro : On 03/24/2015 11:24 PM, David Benfell wrote: Unfortunately, there appear to be some boobytraps with Postfix's virtual_alias_maps that are forcing me to set this aside for now. My existing set-up hadn't been using them; trying to introduce them created some temporary failures and probably lost some (but not all) mail. There's simply way too much I don't understand with postfix. You may also need to add the domain to Postfix's virtual_alias_domains It appears that for my purposes, I don't need to mess with virtual aliases at all. As near as I can tell mailman is perfectly happy to accept the alternative domain name in the general configuration screen and will send emails out using that domain. And of course the alias declarations are not domain specific (unless one wanders into virtual alias domains). That's *really* all I needed. Thanks! -- David Benfell pgpuwdLf7Zo26.pgp Description: PGP Digital Signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
