Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead of list address?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 03/04/2016 10:33 AM, Hirayama, Pat wrote:

 > > [Users] send new messages to the list [addressed to
 > > listname-bounces]. Aside from repeatedly telling the users that
 > > they need to send to listname@domain, have any of you found a
 > > better solution?
 > 
 > You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
 > them, at least in most user populations, is futile.

I agree that this is a hard problem, and not one we should try to
solve in Mailman 2.  But I wonder if we can't do a better job on
behalf of list admins in Mailman 3?  What I have specifically in mind
is to reject the message in Mailman if From (or Sender?) is a list
member, *after* checking for "actionable" messages (eg, DSNs for
bounce processing).  Are there any legitimate reasons for a subscriber
to send mail to listname-bounces?  The is_subscriber test would avoid
99% of backscatter, as well, I hope.

If people consistently get an automated rejection, most will learn (by
now they've figured out that human owners are a lot more flexible and
helpful than even the best software == GNU Mailman).  Some will scream
at the list owner, so probably this feature would need to be an
option. :-(
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead of list address?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/04/2016 07:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
> them, at least in most user populations, is futile.


In my zealousness to rant about the clueless, I forgot to mention that
starting with Mailman 2.1.14 There is an include_sender_header setting
(if not disabled by the site admin) which can be set to no to prevent
Mailman from adding a Sender: header with the list-bounces address. This
*shouldn't* affect normal bounces as they *should* be sent to the
envelope sender, not to the Sender: header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead of list address?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/04/2016 10:33 AM, Hirayama, Pat wrote:
> Apparently, many of my subscribers must be using Outlook, so they see
> the mailto:listname-bounces@domain hypertext and are copying that to
> send new messages to the list. Aside from repeatedly telling the
> users that they need to send to listname@domain, have any of you
> found a better solution?


You can't control what MUA's your user's use. Attempting to educate
them, at least in most user populations, is futile.

And Pat added:
> Sorry, I should add this salient point.  Since the subscriber has
> sent to -bounces, it is going to the list admins, but there is no
> indication to the subscriber that this has happened.  As far as they
> know, their message has been posted to the list.  This seems bad, but
> it doesn't seem like a good idea to have the list admins forward the
> message, since that will change the sender.


It depends on how much work you want to do. If YOU have a decent MUA,
you can open the original attached "unrecognized bounce" message and
resend it to the list. It might be held for implicit destination, but
you can avoid that by adding the -bounces address to the list's
acceptable_aliases, at least in the non-verp case, but it's probably
better to edit the original To: before resending so other innocent
reply-all messages don't go to the bounces address. I.e., there are ways
to resend that message To: the list and From: the original sender; how
much work they are depends on what tools you have at your disposal.

But, this is the wrong answer because it puts all the effort on the list
owner. The right answer is to compose a nice helpful message explaining
the situation and what the correct list posting address is and keep that
handy on your desktop so when you get one of these you can just forward
it back to the original sender together with your message and put the
burden back on them. Maybe some will even learn. Others will just blame
your list because obviously their Microsoft software can't be doing
anything wrong.

Happy Fri Sep 8221 19:03:26 PST 1993

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[Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead of list address?

[Hirayama, Pat]

Greetings,

Apparently, many of my subscribers must be using Outlook, so they see the 
mailto:listname-bounces@domain hypertext and are copying that to send new 
messages to the list. Aside from repeatedly telling the users that they need to 
send to listname@domain, have any of you found a better solution?

Thanks,

-p

--
Pat Hirayama
Systems Engineer / 206.667.4856 / phira...@fredhutch.org / Fred Hutch / Cures 
Start Here
CIT | Enterprise IT Services / Advancing IT and Data Services to Accelerate the 
Elimination of Disease


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead of list address?

[Hirayama, Pat]

Sorry, I should add this salient point.  Since the subscriber has sent to 
-bounces, it is going to the list admins, but there is no indication to the 
subscriber that this has happened.  As far as they know, their message has been 
posted to the list.  This seems bad, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to 
have the list admins forward the message, since that will change the sender.  

Thanks,

-p 

-Original Message-
From: Hirayama, Pat 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 10:30 AM
To: 'mailman-users@python.org'
Subject: How do I prevent subscribers from sending to -bounces address instead 
of list address?

Greetings,

Apparently, many of my subscribers must be using Outlook, so they see the 
mailto:listname-bounces@domain hypertext and are copying that to send new 
messages to the list. Aside from repeatedly telling the users that they need to 
send to listname@domain, have any of you found a better solution?

Thanks,

-p

--
Pat Hirayama
Systems Engineer / 206.667.4856 / phira...@fredhutch.org / Fred Hutch / Cures 
Start Here
CIT | Enterprise IT Services / Advancing IT and Data Services to Accelerate the 
Elimination of Disease


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Accessing archives from "deleted" mailing list

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/03/2016 04:00 PM, p...@mulligan.org wrote:
> 
> I removed a mailing list, but left the archive intact. Is there a way to
> access the archive via the web interface.  Since the mailing list has
> been deleted it seems that:
> 
> http://mail.example.org/private/listname no longer works.


Correct. If the archives were private and the list is gone, there's no
wat to authenticate list ownership/membership for access to the archives.

The simplest thing is to make the archives public by doing

cd /path/to/mailman/archives/public
ln -s ../private/listname listname

Then you can access the archive via the public URL, normally something
like .

To avoid this situation in the future, set Archiving Options ->
archive_private to public before deleting the list.

If you don't want the archive to be completely public, you will have do
do this via the web server and control access there as well.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Accessing archives from "deleted" mailing list

[pc03]

I removed a mailing list, but left the archive intact. Is there a way to 
access the archive via the web interface.  Since the mailing list has 
been deleted it seems that:


http://mail.example.org/private/listname no longer works.

I would assume that I can copy the archive (html files) elsewhere or 
perhaps set up some sort of apache "alias", but I was hoping that if I 
"rmlist"d the list and kept the archive I could still easily provide 
access to the old messages.


Thanks,
Geoff

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