Re: [Mailman-Users] Searchable archive for mailman mailing-lists?

[Lindsay Haisley]

On Wed, 2017-01-18 at 07:09 +1100, Mark Dale wrote:
> Hi Fernando
> 
> For installing the Namazu search on Mailman 2.1.*, there is a good "how
> to" (with a working example) at:
> 
> http://bakacsin.ki.iif.hu/~kissg/project/mailman+namazu/

Some years ago I developed a set of patches and instructions to
integrate namazu with Mailman 2.1, generally collected under the name
nmzproc. See:

http://linode.fmp.com/namazu/

This works well, and has been in use here on some lists for several
years, but there are probably easier ways to get this capability. Some
Mailman sites I host use have used off-site services such as 
mail-archive.com.

> We've had great success using the guide over the years. It might be
> worth noting that on a recent installation on Debian Stretch I did have
> to get the required Namazu packages from the Jessie repository.
> 
> Regards,
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 17/01/17 18:21, Fernando Gont wrote:
> > 
> > Folks,
> > 
> > I was meaning to provide some option for searching our mailman
> > mailing
> > lists.
> > 
> > Two questions:
> > 
> > 1) Any open source recommendations for this?
> > 
> > 2) In the past, we were providing this feature by mirroring the
> > mailing-lists with google-groups, and thus using the googlegroups
> > interface for searching our lists. However, it seems such option is
> > gone
> > from googlegroups. Has anyone been able to do this recently?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Searchable archive for mailman mailing-lists?

[Mark Dale]

Hi Fernando

For installing the Namazu search on Mailman 2.1.*, there is a good "how
to" (with a working example) at:

http://bakacsin.ki.iif.hu/~kissg/project/mailman+namazu/

We've had great success using the guide over the years. It might be
worth noting that on a recent installation on Debian Stretch I did have
to get the required Namazu packages from the Jessie repository.

Regards,
Mark





On 17/01/17 18:21, Fernando Gont wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I was meaning to provide some option for searching our mailman mailing
> lists.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1) Any open source recommendations for this?
> 
> 2) In the past, we were providing this feature by mirroring the
> mailing-lists with google-groups, and thus using the googlegroups
> interface for searching our lists. However, it seems such option is gone
> from googlegroups. Has anyone been able to do this recently?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Scott Neader]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Lindsay Haisley  wrote:

> Scott, I apologize to you, and to anyone else, if you feel that I was
> looking down on you. It was not my intent. I have my opinions about
> Linux and system administration, and they're not shared by everyone.
> ...
> Again, I'm sorry for any insult or offense to anyone on this list.
>

...and I didn't intend to pin that on you... was more thanking Mark for
being patient and understanding on this situation.   But... apology
certainly accepted, since you offered.  Thanks!


> Can I have some barbecue sauce on my crow ;)
>

Only if you'll share. I eat plenty of that fine cuisine myself.

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Lindsay Haisley]

On Tue, 2017-01-17 at 13:27 -0600, Scott Neader wrote:
> Thanks for your support and understanding, Mark, and especially for not
> making us feel bad or looking down upon us for utilizing such a control
> panel system to support our customers and their myriad needs.

Scott, I apologize to you, and to anyone else, if you feel that I was
looking down on you. It was not my intent. I have my opinions about
Linux and system administration, and they're not shared by everyone.
FMP Computer Services is a very small hosting service, one might even
call it "boutique", and we don't use cPanel, or any other control panel
system. Customers do fine without it, and can call on me, personally,
if they need any configuration set-up or services other than those
presented at account setup.

It does seem, though, that as we rely more heavily on complex packaging
and management systems, simple solutions to simple problems get lost in
the shuffle.

Again, I'm sorry for any insult or offense to anyone on this list.

Can I have some barbecue sauce on my crow ;)

-- 
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FMP Computer Services |  better than no humor will get you through
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http://www.fmp.com|- Butch Hancock

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Scott Neader]

On 01/17/2017 08:57 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

> > This all underscores the problems of relying on other people's
> > organization, and the resulting dependency on other people's confusion
> > that comes from blind reliance on über-packages (especially proprietary
> > über-packages) such as cPanel which obfuscate and complicate solutions
> > to simple problems. The following quoted "explanation", presumably from
> > cPanel, is a perfect example. Exactly _which_ python DNS module are we
> > talking about here? It's clear as mud!
>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> Agreed, but such packaged solutions have a place. I don't know what
> Scott's situation is or his reasons for using cPanel, but I know Brian
> operates a shared hosting service, and I know from his participation on
> this list that he is conscientious in providing good service to his
> customers, and without something like cPanel, his business might not be
> viable.


Same situation as Brian... we are a provider of shared hosting services
(since 1996).  Like Brian's business, we also strive to provide excellent
service to our customers, which drove me to dig into this situation.

You are correct that we'd have no business, without a "control panel" for
our hosting customers to use.  cPanel does an outstanding job, considering
all the piece-parts that come together... their 'eco-system' is normally
very reliable and well tested.  I also am a list owner of several lists,
and was personally seeing the effects of the lack of munging.

Thanks for your support and understanding, Mark, and especially for not
making us feel bad or looking down upon us for utilizing such a control
panel system to support our customers and their myriad needs.

- Scott
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Mark Sapiro]

On 01/17/2017 08:57 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> So inquiring minds want to know. Why is this a cPanel bug?


Because cPanel provides Mailman and Python as part of their
distribution. When they first upgraded to a Mailman that included DMARC
mitigations based on DNS policy lookups, they included dnspython in
their Python package.

They have apparently shipped a recent update that upgraded their Python
2.6 package with dnspython to Python 2.7 without it, thus breaking their
Mailman package.


...
> As I recall, as well, there were, at one point, not one but at least
> two DNS resolution modules available for python - dnspython, PyDNS, and
> now perhaps python-dns, which are similar but differ with regard to
> such trivia as the case of the module name in import directives, but
> which will surely cause exceptions if the calling conventions aren't
> strictly followed.


You are correct. Mailman as distributed by us requires dnspython and
won't work with PyDNS. python-dns is the RedHat/Centos name for PyDNS.


> This all underscores the problems of relying on other people's
> organization, and the resulting dependency on other people's confusion
> that comes from blind reliance on über-packages (especially proprietary
> über-packages) such as cPanel which obfuscate and complicate solutions
> to simple problems. The following quoted "explanation", presumably from
> cPanel, is a perfect example. Exactly _which_ python DNS module are we
> talking about here? It's clear as mud!


Agreed, but such packaged solutions have a place. I don't know what
Scott's situation is or his reasons for using cPanel, but I know Brian
operates a shared hosting service, and I know from his participation on
this list that he is conscientious in providing good service to his
customers, and without something like cPanel, his business might not be
viable.

From my point of view, I think everyone should install Mailman from my
source. Then I wouldn't ever have to deal with issues caused by
downstream packagers, but that's unrealistic in the real world.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Searchable archive for mailman mailing-lists?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 01/16/2017 11:21 PM, Fernando Gont wrote:
> 
> I was meaning to provide some option for searching our mailman mailing
> lists.


For Mailman 2.1 see .

The HyperKitty archiver for Mailman 3 has search capability built in.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Lindsay Haisley]

On Tue, 2017-01-17 at 07:40 -0500, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> > 
> > Lindsay Haisley writes:
> > 
> >  > I don't believe that the python DNS resolver module is a stock part of
> >  > the python distribution.
> > 
> > It is not, as of 3.6.

Nor was it part of 2.6 or 2.7.

Scott's original issue apparently was (exactly as I suggested in an
earlier post in this thread) that python, on his problem system, was
upgraded from v2.6 to v2.7, sans dnspython, which is neither part of
the python standard library nor part of the accessory packages
installed by cPanel or by the distribution's suggested dependencies
map.

> > --
> cPanel has confirmed the bug and they are currently working on providing a
> fix that will be pushed out in an update. Meanwhile they did provide me a
> workaround that fixes the issue. Here is what they said related to the
> reported bug:

So inquiring minds want to know. Why is this a cPanel bug? Mark's
solution suggesting the use of pip to remedy the problem seems to
satisfy the KISS principle, Ockam's Razor, and whatever other system
admin guidelines teach the virtue of simplicity and the power of a
little knowledge of how things work "under the hood".

As I recall, as well, there were, at one point, not one but at least
two DNS resolution modules available for python - dnspython, PyDNS, and
now perhaps python-dns, which are similar but differ with regard to
such trivia as the case of the module name in import directives, but
which will surely cause exceptions if the calling conventions aren't
strictly followed.

This all underscores the problems of relying on other people's
organization, and the resulting dependency on other people's confusion
that comes from blind reliance on über-packages (especially proprietary
über-packages) such as cPanel which obfuscate and complicate solutions
to simple problems. The following quoted "explanation", presumably from
cPanel, is a perfect example. Exactly _which_ python DNS module are we
talking about here? It's clear as mud!

Hrrumph!!

> 
> ##
> Indeed, I've replicated this concern on our test servers and I see
> that the
> location has changed in the latest RPM from python 2.6 to python 2.7.
> 
> As Cent7 provides python-dns, there is not a need to provide this
> package
> for python 2.7 as the system provided python-dns library can be
> used. 
> 
> We provide cpanel-dnspython on Cent 6 systems as python-dns  is not
> available. It appears that in the recent package, the installation
> has been
> moved to /usr/lib64/python2.7 rather then the previous location of
> /usr/lib/python2.6  or the expected location of
> /usr/lib64/python2.6. 
> 
> I've downgraded the installed cpanel-dnspython on a test server which
> then
> allowed for the module to be located without issues
> ##
> 
> Hats off to Mark Sapiro and to his pinpoint super human laser
> accuracy to
> identify the source of these problems that come up from time to
> time. 

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FMP Computer Services | war comes is truth."
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Brian Carpenter]

> Lindsay Haisley writes:
> 
>  > I don't believe that the python DNS resolver module is a stock part of
>  > the python distribution.
> 
> It is not, as of 3.6.
> 
> --

cPanel has confirmed the bug and they are currently working on providing a
fix that will be pushed out in an update. Meanwhile they did provide me a
workaround that fixes the issue. Here is what they said related to the
reported bug:


##
Indeed, I've replicated this concern on our test servers and I see that the
location has changed in the latest RPM from python 2.6 to python 2.7.

As Cent7 provides python-dns, there is not a need to provide this package
for python 2.7 as the system provided python-dns library can be used. 

We provide cpanel-dnspython on Cent 6 systems as python-dns  is not
available. It appears that in the recent package, the installation has been
moved to /usr/lib64/python2.7 rather then the previous location of
/usr/lib/python2.6  or the expected location of /usr/lib64/python2.6. 

I've downgraded the installed cpanel-dnspython on a test server which then
allowed for the module to be located without issues
##

Hats off to Mark Sapiro and to his pinpoint super human laser accuracy to
identify the source of these problems that come up from time to time. 

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com, Owner

Providing Cloud Services and Mailman Hosting for over 15 years.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent trouble with DMARC Munging

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Lindsay Haisley writes:

 > I don't believe that the python DNS resolver module is a stock part of
 > the python distribution.

It is not, as of 3.6.

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