Re: [Mailman-Users] periodic shunts might have been undetected bad bounce_matching_headers

2017-08-28 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/25/2017 06:29 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> Hi mailman-users@python.org
> I hope I may have solved some postings being shunted on a few of my lists,
> necessitating occasional
>   cd /usr/local/mailman; unshunt qfiles/shunt
> 
> I discovered 3 lists had missing '\n', shown with
>   cd /usr/local/mailman/lists; config_list -o - ListName
> bounce_matching_headers = """# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.


What is the rest of this up to the terminating """?

> Fixed with 
>   cd /usr/local/mailman/lists ; config_list -o ~/tmp/ListName ListName
>   vi  ~/tmp/ListName ; config_list -i ~/tmp/ListName ListName
> & I hope the shunting will stop.
> 
> I did autopsy snapshots of /usr/local/mailman before & after last unshunt,
> if anyone feels like telling me what to look for.


What is the traceback from the 'shunt' message in Mailman's error log?


> Unfortunately the corrupt bounce_matching_headers lines in configuration
> were undetected by these automatic checks 
>   cd /usr/local/etc/rc.d; ./mailman stop ; ./mailman start 
>   cd /usr/local/mailman/lists ; ../bin/check_db -a
>   cd /usr/local/mailman/lists ; ../bin/check_perms


If bounce_matching_headers contains an invalid line, there should be
entries in Mailman's 'config' log like

'bad bounce_matching_header line: LISTNAME
LINE

or

bad regexp in bounce_matching_header line: LISTNAME
REGEXP (cause: ERROR)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message stuck in held messages queue. Why, how to fix?

2017-08-28 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/24/2017 08:39 AM, Ian Kelling wrote:
> I mark it as accept then submit, the request returns 200, the page
> reappears and the message is still there. Why?
> 
> Things I wonder if they are related:
> * Under the message, it says "The sender is now a member of this list"
> * The post goes over http, but the get requests are over https.


See  and steps 2 and 3 at
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender Filters > Accept_these_non-members

2017-08-28 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/23/2017 11:00 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
> Version 2.1.24
> 
> According to the documentation, I can set Privacy Options > Sender Filters > 
> Accept_these_non-members to allow members of other local lists to post. It is 
> not working for me.
> 
> Example:
> Domain: parishplayers.org
> List: bo...@parishplayers.org
> I added: @digital to Accept_these_non-members (digi...@parishplayers.org is a 
> valid, working list)
> It still holds mail from people on the digital mailing list.


If this is cPanel (are they up to 2.1.24 yet?), you need to use the
cPanel internal list name, i.e., @digital_parishplayers.org in this case.

If that is not the explanation, what is the reason why the post is held?
Is it 'Post by non-member to a members-only list' or something else?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users being unsubscribed without requesting it.

2017-08-28 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/19/2017 08:31 AM, Steve Wehr wrote:
> 
> Some further info... I was including a link at the bottom of all emails sent
> by mailman (in the msg_footer field: 
> "Click this link to unsubscribe:
> %(user_optionsurl)s?password=%(user_password)s=1=1" 
> 
> I thought perhaps users were accidentally clicking this and unsubscribing
> themselves, so I have removed the "=1" part of the URL so they
> will have to manually confirm.
> 
> Maybe this would foil ISPs who are automatically following this link to
> unsubscribe people. Do ISPs really do this?


Including a link like the above is a very bad idea. It leads to:

A receives a list post.

A forwards the post to friend B

B clicks the unsubscribe link either maliciously or thinking she's been
subscribed to a list.

A is removed from the list.

Do not include the password in the link. Just make it

%(user_optionsurl)s?login-unsub=Unsubscribe

This will send a "Your confirmation is required to leave the xxx mailing
list" message to user A which user A will hopefully ignore.

If you just drop the =1, B can still confirm and unsubscribe A.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] "Bounce action notification" emails for subscribes/unsubscribes

2017-08-28 Thread Mark Sapiro 
Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been away.

On 08/18/2017 08:11 PM, Terry . wrote:
> 
> But in recent months I’ve noticed that, as list owner, when I subscribe or 
> unsubscribe someone, instead of just receiving an email with the subject:
> “ subscription notification”
> or:
> “ unsubscribe notification”
> I receive an email with the subject:
> “Bounce action notification”
> Which contains:
> 
> “This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
> 
> List:   Bro   [for example]
> 
> Member: mylistadminaddr...@mydomain.com   [for example]
> 
> Action: Subscription bounce score incremented.
> 
> Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.
> 
> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
> 
> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at 
> mail...@somedomain.com.”   [for example]
> 
> 
> 
> And that email contains an ATTACHMENT which has the subject:
>   “ subscription notification”
> or:
>   “ unsubscribe notification”


This is very strange. What seems to be happening is the (un)subscription
notification is bouncing, causing a bounce notification to be sent to
the list owner, but a bounce notification should only be sent if the
original (bounced) message was to a list member, not the owner.

Also the bounce notification should also have an attached DSN with
details of why the (un)subscription notification bounced. What does that
say?


> Notes:
> - This didn’t used to happen with these same lists, and I don’t know what’s 
> triggered the change in behaviour.
> 
> - Even if I change the list “owner” address to another of my addresses, it 
> still happens.
> 
> - I have admin_notify_mchanges set to “Yes”.
> 
> - I don’t have any moderators set up.


OK


> Questions:
> 
> Q1. Is this a known issue?


No


> Q2. What’s the likely cause of this problem suddenly starting to happen?


Post the full raw bounce action notice with all headers and MIME parts
and I might be able to say more.


> Q3. What’s the likely solution?


See Q2


> Q4. Do you need any more info to troubleshoot the cause of this?  If so, 
> what, exactly?


See Q2

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[Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender Filters > Accept_these_non-members

2017-08-28 Thread Paul Hunt 
Version 2.1.24

According to the documentation, I can set Privacy Options > Sender Filters > 
Accept_these_non-members to allow members of other local lists to post. It is 
not working for me.

Example:
Domain: parishplayers.org
List: bo...@parishplayers.org
I added: @digital to Accept_these_non-members (digi...@parishplayers.org is a 
valid, working list)
It still holds mail from people on the digital mailing list.

Am I doing something wrong?


Thanks,
Paul

paul.h...@customsupport.com
www.customsupport.com
F × S = k (the product of freedom and security is a constant)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users being unsubscribed without requesting it.

2017-08-28 Thread Joly MacFie 
There would still be a confirmation step.



On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 5:39 PM, List Manager 
wrote:

> Steve-
>
> Just a thought, but since the "unsubscribe link" has been part of the
> output of your list, it is possible that someone other than the
> recipient sees the link and clicks on it, either in malice or error
> (trying to unsubscribe themselves)
> --
> Jack Hill, W4KH - BoatAnchors Listowner/Archiver
> list...@nanniandjack.com
> "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"
> "Il n'y a que les idiots qui ne changent jamais d'idee"
>
>  On 2017-08-19 10:00, Steve Wehr wrote:
>
> > That's the best theory I have heard so far to explain the facts.
> >
> > The user's in question, who are being unsubscribed without asking to be,
> are people who like the mailing lists they are on, and would not be
> flagging emails from the list as spam. Now their ISP might, but they
> wouldn't. The list owners swear to me that these people are friends who
> want their emails.
> >
> > Some further info... I was including a link at the bottom of all emails
> sent by mailman (in the msg_footer field:
> > "Click this link to unsubscribe:
> > %(user_optionsurl)s?password=%(user_password)s=1=1"
> >
> > I thought perhaps users were accidentally clicking this and unsubscribing
> > themselves, so I have removed the "=1" part of the URL so
> they will have to manually confirm.
> >
> > Maybe this would foil ISPs who are automatically following this link to
> > unsubscribe people. Do ISPs really do this?
> >
> > _
> > Steve Wehr
> > Tunedin Web Design
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Keith Seyffarth [mailto:w...@weif.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 10:55 AM
> > To: Steve Wehr
> > Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Users being unsubscribed without requesting
> it.
> >
> > "Steve Wehr"  writes:
> >
> > 
> >
> >> The problem is that when contacted, these users swear they DID NOT
> >> unsubscribe themselves. So how can they be getting unsubscribed (with
> >> messages in the logs like the one above) but they are not going to the
> >> member options page and unsubscribing??
> >
> > One possibility would be that they are marking these messages as "Junk"
> > or "Spam" and their ESP/ISP, either through a manual or automated
> process,
> > is following the unsubscribe link in the email to remove them from the
> > list...
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> joly%40punkcast.com
>



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users being unsubscribed without requesting it.

2017-08-28 Thread Joly MacFie 
Is it possible that others sharing the same ISP could have been
spam-marking and this has led to other subs on ISP getting removed?

I had a spate of nyu.edu unsubs a while back that and that seemed to
possibly be the case. I had to resub people using alt emails.



On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Keith Seyffarth  wrote:

> "Steve Wehr"  writes:
>
> 
>
> > The problem is that when contacted, these users swear they DID NOT
> > unsubscribe themselves. So how can they be getting unsubscribed (with
> > messages in the logs like the one above) but they are not going to the
> > member options page and unsubscribing??
>
> One possibility would be that they are marking these messages as "Junk"
> or "Spam" and their ESP/ISP, either through a manual or automated
> process, is following the unsubscribe link in the email to remove them
> from the list...
>
> --
> 
> from my mac to yours...
>
> Keith Seyffarth
> mailto:w...@weif.net
> http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
> http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar
> 
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> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> joly%40punkcast.com
>



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[Mailman-Users] "Bounce action notification" emails for subscribes/unsubscribes

2017-08-28 Thread Terry . 
Hi Mark, etc,

I’ve been a happy user of Mailman for years via a webhost on a shared server 
which runs cPanel.  I’m the list owner for various lists, and in general it’s 
been working well.  The current Mailman version the webhost have is 2.1.23.

But in recent months I’ve noticed that, as list owner, when I subscribe or 
unsubscribe someone, instead of just receiving an email with the subject:
“ subscription notification”
or:
“ unsubscribe notification”
I receive an email with the subject:
“Bounce action notification”
Which contains:

“This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

List:   Bro   [for example]

Member: 
mylistadminaddr...@mydomain.com   [for 
example]

Action: Subscription bounce score incremented.

Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.

The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at 
mail...@somedomain.com.”   [for example]



And that email contains an ATTACHMENT which has the subject:
  “ subscription notification”
or:
  “ unsubscribe notification”



Notes:
- This didn’t used to happen with these same lists, and I don’t know what’s 
triggered the change in behaviour.

- Even if I change the list “owner” address to another of my addresses, it 
still happens.

- I have admin_notify_mchanges set to “Yes”.

- I don’t have any moderators set up.



Questions:

Q1. Is this a known issue?

Q2. What’s the likely cause of this problem suddenly starting to happen?

Q3. What’s the likely solution?

Q4. Do you need any more info to troubleshoot the cause of this?  If so, what, 
exactly?



Thanks.

Terry
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