Re: [Mailman-Users] Very strange issue With Mailman + Exchange(?)

2020-04-27 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 4/27/20 11:21 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> I am not sure how to figure this out.
> 
> Lengthy explanation:
> 
> For two users and ONLY these two users, somewhere between them and mailman 
> and back, the Mailman list is being expanded to put all the members of the 
> list on the CC line. It then gets held for approval with a ’too many 
> addresses’ message.
...
> TLDR: Somehow the all the list addresses are getting stuck onto the list 
> message which then holds it for approval for ’too many addresses’.


I'm really guessing here, but I suspect that the list is not VERPing or
personalizing delivery and the default setting for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is not
overridden with a small number.

In this case Mailman will send the outgoing message in only a few SMTP
transactions with lots of recipients each. In fact, if this is and
internal list and all the recipients are all in the same TLD, Mailman
will send to all the recipients in one transaction with multiple RCPT TO
commands. I.e., the envelope recipients for the message will be the
whole list, at least if there are fewer than 500 members.

Some MUAs will add the envelope recipients to an X-Apparently-To: header
and I wouldn't put it past Exchange to put them in Cc: even though this
could effectively break Bcc:.

All that notwithstanding, this is the outgoing message, and IIUC the
message never gets posted to the list, unless there's some convoluted
process which reflects the outgoing message back to the list.

I would start by examining the Received: chain in the headers of the
held message to see where it's been.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Very strange issue With Mailman + Exchange(?)

2020-04-27 Thread Bruce Johnson 
I am not sure how to figure this out.

Lengthy explanation:

Internally in our Exchange server, that address is a distribution group whose 
only member is the actual @lists.pharmacy.arizona.edu, because the 
Mailman server is not our mail server. (we have a mildly complicated setup: 
hybrid OnPrem and O365 exchange + Barracuda spam appliance in front of all of 
it, which is our actual SMTP server.  

Outgoing email from the list server bypasses Exchange and is sent directly to 
the Barracuda SMTP server.

For two users and ONLY these two users, somewhere between them and mailman and 
back, the Mailman list is being expanded to put all the members of the list on 
the CC line. It then gets held for approval with a ’too many addresses’ message.

I have watched them send an email to the affected list; the list address is NOT 
in their local address cache, and they are NOT entering any other addresses in 
the email other than the list address. The only address that appears on the 
email in their Sent folder is the list address.

Other users in our organization can send to these same lists without this 
happening. In fact one of the affected users can send to *other* lists on our 
server with no problems. These are two different lists.

I don’t know that this is specifically a Mailman problem (because it’s only 
happening with specific users) but I cannot see how  list members are getting 
stuffed on the CC line otherwise; because Exchange only knows the list address, 
not the members; only Mailman does.

TLDR: Somehow the all the list addresses are getting stuck onto the list 
message which then holds it for approval for ’too many addresses’.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating

2020-04-27 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 4/26/20 11:04 PM, Lothar Schilling wrote:
> 
> ps -fwwA | grep qrunner
> 
> mailman   7439  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7440  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7441  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7442  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7443  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7444  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7445  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7446  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7468  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7469  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7470  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7471  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7472  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7473  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7474  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   7475  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


This may be a separate issue, but you have two Mailman instances
running. See  for how this can happen
and what to do about it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating

2020-04-27 Thread Lothar Schilling 

Am 26.04.2020 um 19:46 schrieb Mark Sapiro:

On 4/26/20 9:57 AM, Lothar Schilling wrote:

Yes I did check the permissons several times, everything is fine. And
no, SELinux was and still is disabled.


What user is running Mailman's qrunners?

ps -fwwA|grep qrunner

And what does

ls -laR /var/spool/mailman /var/lib/mailman

give?


ps -fwwA | grep qrunner

mailman   7439  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7440  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7441  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7442  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7443  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7444  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7445  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7446  7438  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7468  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7469  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7470  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7471  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7472  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7473  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7474  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   7475  7467  0 07:51 ?    00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


ls -laR /var/spool/mailman

drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096 26. Apr 17:38 archive
drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096 26. Apr 17:52 bad
drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096 26. Apr 17:39 bounces
drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096  9. Okt 2015  commands
drwxrws---   root    mailman  4096 26. Apr 17:52 in
drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096  9. Okt 2015  news
drwxrws---   mailman mailman 77824 26. Apr 17:52 out
drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096  9. Okt 2015  retry
drwxrws---   mailman mailman  4096 26. Apr 17:38 shunt
drwxrws---   root    mailman 86016 26. Apr 17:52 virgin

ls -laR /var/lib/mailman
All files & directories have: -rwxrwsr-x   apache mailman

 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
"Keine Probleme aufgetreten"

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