[Mailman-Users] Re: Hevy resource footprint forces backdrop to mailman 2.1

2022-10-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
Martin Lorenz writes:

 > I am afraid, mailman3 needs far too much system resources for this
 > virtual server.

This whole story doesn't make much sense to me.  You switched to a new
virtual server because Mailman 2 isn't supported but imply that
Mailman 3 is, but you can't get support from your vendor?  Do you mean
that *Python* 2 is not supported but *Python* 3 is?

Then, as far as I can tell on my hosts, Mailman 3 does not use a lot
more resources than Mailman 2.1 to process email, because it's
basically the same processing model.  By "doing anything," do you mean
posting to lists?  Migrating lists?  Creating and managing lists with
Postorius?  Migrating archives?  Accessing archives and posting via
HyperKitty?

Python 2 is *unsupported* and likely to have security issues (in
particular, it probably allows SSL/TLS connections now considered
insecure).  Mailman 2 is also end-of-life, and may have security
issues (although Mark continues to accept patches and even fix them
occasionally, he keeps promising to stop "soon").  You're asking for
endless hurt if you get into trouble with Mailman 2.  (I don't think
it's likely except maybe a botnet will take your virtual server over
for Bitcoin mining or DDoS attacks, but if it happens it will be bad.)

Like Mark, I recommend that you at least let us try to help you to
figure out why the virtual server fails to run Mailman 3.  Are you
sure the new virtual server will handle the load of Mailman 2?  Maybe
it's just too small for the job of handling mailing lists.

If you're not willing to upgrade, you're going to need to install
Python 2, and a few packages.  You'll need to get support from your
virtual server provider and/or the OS vendor for that, we can't help
you.  It's possible that they're EOL at the OS vendor as well.  (I was
looking to install Python 3.8 on my Debian system to support a user
who's stuck on 3.8 for corporate QA reasons, and surprise! it's not on
their principal mirrors any more.  There are Linux distros that never
supported Python 2, they were on Python 3 from the start.)  Python 2 is
deeply embedded in some ecosystems, so most likely your OS vender
still delivers the most recent Python 2.7.  But you can be sure Python
2-compatible packages are bitrotting in most cases, including those
that support Mailman.

Regards,
Steve


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Mark Sapiro 

On 10/8/22 06:28, Robert Heller wrote:


Sometimes what happens is a mail provider like Yahoo (@yahoo.com, @aol.com,
@verizon.net, and some others) or Microsoft (@hotmail.com, @outlook.com,
others) and will greylist you and delay / defer E-Mail. You MTA will re-try
every so often (every hour, 1/2 hour, etc.) for up to 5 days. Generally,
eventually the mail gets through, but it could takes hours or days. There is
not much you can do about this.


This is not the issue here. Here, the issue is in delivery from Mailman 
to the outgoing MTA (probably exim in the case of cPanel) and not in 
delivery from the MTA to the recipients.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Mark Sapiro 

On 10/8/22 01:41, Christian via Mailman-Users wrote:

Good morning

I have several unmoderated lists on Mailman 2.1.38 running on cPanel (106.0.8).

The messages sent to the lists are almost immediately visible in the list 
archives, but are sent to the subscribers with a - sometimes huge - delay. 
Mostly it is 20 - 40 minutes, but sometimes it is more than one hour.



Mailman's `out` queue is backlogged. See 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/message/CAKZUAYSGKKEQLTK4RTB2DVOYVJUNIQX/ 
and perhaps other hits from searching the archive for `backlogged out 
queue`. Also see .


Unfortunately you are at the mercy of your cPanel host to fix this.

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Mark Sapiro 

On 10/8/22 07:06, Bill Cole wrote:


It is my understanding that Mailman only puts a message in the archive 
after it has handed off deliveries to the local MTA.


This is not correct. Mailman processes messages through a pipeline of 
handlers (see 
). 
Towards the end of the pipeline are handlers `ToArchive` and 
`ToOutgoing`. These handlers simply queue the message for the respective 
ArchiveRunner and OutgoingRunner processes which process their queues 
asynchronously from each other.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Bill Cole 

On 2022-10-08 at 09:32:52 UTC-0400 (Sat, 8 Oct 2022 15:32:52 +0200)
Christian via Mailman-Users 
is rumored to have said:

Hello Robert Heller. On Sat,  8 Oct 2022 09:28:50 -0400 (EDT), you 
wrote:



What sorts of e-mail addresses are delayed.  Are *all* users seeing
delays or only some (eg only people with @yahoo.com or
@hotmail.com addresses?).


It concerns all addresses - even those who are on the same server / 
same domain.


Do you have access to your server's mail queue?  Do you have 
command-line

access to your server?


No, unfortunately not. It is a cPanel installation on a virtual 
server.


It is my understanding that Mailman only puts a message in the archive 
after it has handed off deliveries to the local MTA. cPanel historically 
(circa 2018) had queue run timings for Exim (the MTA) that were unfit 
for mailing lists.  I know cPanel was made aware of the issue but I do 
not recall whether they pushed out a fix or just documented a 
configuration fix.  You may not be able to change or even see the Exim 
config, since I believe cPanel manages Exim at the host-wide level 
(using WHM) which customers don't generally have access to. You should 
talk to your provider about how Exim is configured.





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[Mailman-Users] Re: Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Robert Heller 
What sorts of e-mail addresses are delayed.  Are *all* users seeing delays or 
only some (eg only people with @yahoo.com or @hotmail.com addresses?).

Do you have access to your server's mail queue?  Do you have command-line 
access to your server?

Sometimes what happens is a mail provider like Yahoo (@yahoo.com, @aol.com,
@verizon.net, and some others) or Microsoft (@hotmail.com, @outlook.com,
others) and will greylist you and delay / defer E-Mail. You MTA will re-try
every so often (every hour, 1/2 hour, etc.) for up to 5 days. Generally,
eventually the mail gets through, but it could takes hours or days. There is
not much you can do about this.

Sometimes what is happening is that you have set Mailman to be too
"aggressive" about sending mail, and some E-Mail providers don't like that.
There are some Mailman settings for this -- this will add some delay, but
things will generally flow better overall. Other times, it is that some of
*your* subscribers are marking the message they are getting from your list as
spam and their E-Mail provider(s) are "learning" that your list is a spam
source and the provider's spam filter is marking messages from your list as
spam and either rejecting or quarentining the messages from your list.

At Sat, 8 Oct 2022 10:41:04 +0200 Christian  wrote:

> 
> Good morning 
> 
> I have several unmoderated lists on Mailman 2.1.38 running on cPanel 
> (106.0.8). 
> 
> The messages sent to the lists are almost immediately visible in the list 
> archives, but are sent to the subscribers with a - sometimes huge - delay. 
> Mostly it is 20 - 40 minutes, but sometimes it is more than one hour. 
> 
> This makes replying difficult for the users because they might give an answer 
> which is already given by someone else, or they miss a clarification. 
> 
> Is this normal to Mailman 2 on cPanel, or is there any possibility to speed 
> up the message delivery? 
> 
> Thank you, Christian   
> 

-- 
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Christian via Mailman-Users 
Hello Robert Heller. On Sat,  8 Oct 2022 09:28:50 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

> What sorts of e-mail addresses are delayed.  Are *all* users seeing 
> delays or only some (eg only people with @yahoo.com or 
> @hotmail.com addresses?).

It concerns all addresses - even those who are on the same server / same 
domain. 

> Do you have access to your server's mail queue?  Do you have command-line 
> access to your server?

No, unfortunately not. It is a cPanel installation on a virtual server. 

Christian 
 
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Hevy resource footprint forces backdrop to mailman 2.1

2022-10-08 Thread Martin Lorenz 
Mark Sapiro wrote:
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-2718/ but it would be 
> much better to fix your Mailman 3 issues.

I am afraid, mailman3 needs far too much system resources for this virtual 
server.
I had it up and running but system load shoot up to values beyond 10 whenever 
mailman3 had to process something.
htop showed the mailman processes eating up all memory until I couldn't even 
kill them remotely but had to do a hard shutdown via the management console.

I never had this with mailman2
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[Mailman-Users] Delayed messages

2022-10-08 Thread Christian via Mailman-Users 
Good morning 

I have several unmoderated lists on Mailman 2.1.38 running on cPanel (106.0.8). 

The messages sent to the lists are almost immediately visible in the list 
archives, but are sent to the subscribers with a - sometimes huge - delay. 
Mostly it is 20 - 40 minutes, but sometimes it is more than one hour. 

This makes replying difficult for the users because they might give an answer 
which is already given by someone else, or they miss a clarification. 

Is this normal to Mailman 2 on cPanel, or is there any possibility to speed up 
the message delivery? 

Thank you, Christian   

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Search box for archives

2022-10-08 Thread Odhiambo Washington 
On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:28 AM Bill Christensen <
billc_li...@greenbuilder.com> wrote:

> On 9/11/22 2:00 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > What is the simplest way to add a searchbox for the archives?
> >
> Because my list archives are open and regularly crawled, I tell my user
> to just use their favorite search engine, enter the list name, and the
> term they're looking for.
>
> You could probably code a simple form to do that for you.
>
> I had considered MonHarc back in the day, but never got around to
> implementing it.  And since it's probably not secure these days (see
> previous message in this thread) I'm glad I didn't.
>

I ended up using Namazu and it's working fine.

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