Re: [Mailman-Users] how to make use of Notebook
On 2/28/08, ganesh gajre wrote: > Iwant to know that how i can make a notebook of classes from different file. > Like, > I have written two class as python Script Main.py and Start.py. Start is my > first form and Main is second . > How to add both in one class using Notebook widget of PYGTK so whent Next > button is clicked it will open Main form. This is the mailman-users mailing list, whose purpose is to allow community support for the Mailman mailing list management software, which happens to be written in Python. This is not a mailing list to help you learn to program in Python, this is not a mailing list to ask reference questions about Python programming, etc For those kinds of things, you need to be looking at other mailing lists on python.org. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
On 2/25/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote: > I didn't do any changes yet, I was working on other projects. > Vim is a new utility for me, but there's a useful guide I can use to do > what I need for now. Your example makes me think I have to worry about > the future growth of the mailbox and how to handle it with different > utilities I don't know. You do want to break the raw archive file periodically -- as in move the old archive file aside and start a new one, then reload Mailman. You don't want the file to grow so large that it can't be edited. > Do you think there is an easier way to do these cleanings? A sort of > webmail interface? Mailman does not currently have any such tools, no. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
On 2/23/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote: > I don't want to edit the html files and leave the message in the mailbox. Fair enough. > I tried to use vim, but it's a too long file to manage (I don't know how > to do, too). Vim should be able to handle it. If vim can't handle it, you may be left with no other viable option. Again, you need to talk to your provider. > It will be nice if I can download and edit the mbox file or use such a > mailbox manager online. We don't provide any such service, and I don't know of anyone who does. Moreover, I don't know of any such tools you could use to edit the file locally which would meet the necessary requirements, other than the exact same tools you could already use to edit the file in-place on your server. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
On 2/23/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You could try ed, ex, vi or vim, or you could just edit the individual > HTML message per the last section in the revised FAQ. My recollection is that ed, ex, and the original vi cannot handle arbitrarily long lines or binary content, and don't work well with large files. I believe that "nvi" and "vim" as alternatives to the original "vi" should be able to do these things just fine, as would emacs (and the various derivatives). -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
On 2/23/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote: > Now my question is how to handle a large mailbox file. Maybe it's a dumb > question, I can't open the file with mutt or emacs, I think these are > unavailable on my virtual server. You may need to talk to your service provider to find out what tools they do have available which would be able to meet the specified requirements. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delete message in large mbox
On 2/23/08, Odieresis [Gmail] wrote: > Now I have a large mbox of MB 200. That's not a large mbox. A large mbox is 2GB, especially on a system where the OS is not configured to support "large files", and 2GB is the largest file size it can handle. Oh, and the machine has only 2GB of RAM. > Can you tell me how I can handle such > a file direct in shell access or downloading and uploading it? If you've got the necessary write access to the file, it doesn't matter if you edit the file in-place using tools like emacs or vim, or if you download the file to your local machine and edit it there with a similar program and then re-upload. Either way, you're going to need an editor that can handle lines of arbitrary length, and binary content. Relatively few editors handle either or both of those things correctly. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument (2given)
On 2/22/08, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> Can we at least use a hashed mail directory solution that doesn't >> have massive scalability problems? > > For the digests it probably doesn't matter because they'll never get > that big. I'm still planning on making this change for the queue > directories (though I haven't yet). I thought we were talking about replacing the 7th edition mbox file format for the raw or the similar mbox-like format for the cooked archives. Using some sort of a hashed directory structure would allow a lot more flexibility in terms of going in and deleting or editing messages in the archive, along with many other benefits it might bring. However, if you imagine python-list with hundreds of thousands of messages in the archive, there's just no way that could possibly scale with Maildir, Maildir+, or any other solution that does not enforce a good hashed directory scheme that is kept invisible to the higher-level applications. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] get_content_type() takes exactly 1 argument (2given)
On 2/21/08, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Just FTR, I really want to move MM3's digest mailbox to maildir format > instead of mbox. MM3 will require Python 2.5, so we can use it's > really great updated mailbox module to handle problems like this. > That's the plan anyway. Can we at least use a hashed mail directory solution that doesn't have massive scalability problems? -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/21/08, Dov Zamir wrote: > SPF DNS records are now mandatory. Hotmail announced that they would not > receive any mail from a source with no SPF record from the first day it > became mandatory a couple of years ago, but did not actually carry out > the threat at that time, however, it seems that they may now be > implementing this. An SPF record supposedly reduces spammers ability to > spoof your domain. SPF is fundamentally broken, in many ways. It was so in 2004, and it is still so today. See <http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/05/spf.html>. Besides, Windows Live insists on SenderID, not SPF. You should do your homework. Either way, if Windows Live Hotmail wants to isolate themselves from the rest of the world as a result of a technology like this, then they will get what they deserve. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Granted, Brad himself often criticizes the implementation at AOL, > Yahoo, et al. But the underlying strategy is the same. "Stop spam as > far upstream as you can." Yeah, but SPF/SenderID and DKIM/DomainKeys are not the right tools to be forcing everyone else in the industry to be using to achieve this goal. You might as well force everyone to use only 24lb sledgehammers when they want to fasten any two objects together, and ignore all other fastening technologies like screws, glue, etc The DKIM guys did their homework -- they identified the weaknesses in SPF, and they found ways to avoid pretty much all of them. Problem is, they brought out the crypto-nuclear weapons to use against the spammers, and they forgot that the spammers are like cockroaches, and they're the only ones who'll be left on this planet when the nuclear weapons actually get used. > You can't have it both ways. If AOL's database is organized by IP, > when you get filtered, you will get filtered by IP. If you want Yahoo > to distinguish your "diligent" (and/or "lucky") domains from the less > so, you're going to have to give them domain keys so the good ones > can't be spoofed by the bad ones (or worse, by the bad guys > themselves). I don't think you can effectively protect these assets by domain. Among other things, there are far too many places out there that might have a valid need to send e-mail on my behalf, using my address, and any domain-level protection mechanism would almost certainly break that aspect of e-mail. There go all your e-mail greeting cards, there go all your e-mail notifications of birthdays or other events, and a whole host of other things. You can't even protect these assets completely by IP address. If the spammers can get friendly with an ISP so that they can advertise bogus routes to your network, then they can send out mail from their machines using your IP addresses, and all your IP-based security mechanisms go out the window. The mail will be treated by the other end as if it really had been sent by your mail servers, and then they'll go away in five minutes. But the damage has already been done -- the spam has been sent, and someone else has been blamed. And all those ephemeral routing advertisements never get logged anywhere, so no one would ever know that it wasn't really you that was sending e-mail from that IP address. > You don't have to like it; I don't like it at all. But it's not very > useful to propose that the 600-lb gorillas "stop targeting the > middlemen," nor to complain about gorillas that ask for authentication > of every domain that wants to clear its reputation with the simians' > systems. I don't mind them targeting the middleman. I just want them to target using the appropriate tools. I want them to have enough intelligence to know when a user has set up forwarding on our system to their system, so that when a spam message comes in and the user clicks "report as spam", they can look through the headers of the message and avoid blaming us for sending spam to that user, because we were actually just doing what the user asked us to do. The alternative is to just refuse to forward e-mail anymore. And I don't really like that. Oh, and btw, this also affects mailing lists, because all the low-level mechanisms for forwarding e-mail are functionally identical to operating a mailing list. > Not until we can provide an alternative that looks like it > might work. They've got the money. Let them pay to come up with something that will actually work. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > C'mon, Mark, you know that the only problem here is that there's no > accepted standard; they have to authenticate "you" somehow (do you > really want me to be able to spoof you and get information about your > mail to Yahoo customers?), and the right "you" to authenticate is the > apparent source of allegedly objectionable mail. So it's going to be > SPF or DomainKeys or something like that. But SPF (and similar technologies) and DomainKeys (and similar technologies) are both inherently broken in the general case. Sure, there are specific cases where sites like BankOfAmerica.com can use them (and to everyone's benefit), but they're too easy to set up incorrectly (on both sides), and they break too many other parts of how e-mail is supposed to work. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/20/08, Brian Carpenter wrote: > The really bad situation is when an e-mail forwarder that is setup on my > server that forwards both legitimate mail and spam (when it makes it through > my anti-spam system) to their AOL or Yahoo account and the user then clicks > that wicked "spam" button and inadvertently reports my server as a source of > spam. It's a tragic case of mistaken identity and none of the major e-mail > providers are willing to come up with a system that doesn't target the > middle man. Yup. I had one of these today. This is not the first time we've had this problem with this particular account, and in my reply to the AOL postmaster this time I told them that future complaints of this sort may result in that users account getting terminated. I made sure to send copies to both our internal address and their AOL account. I won't have our mail servers reputation dirtied by morons who can't tell the difference between the "Delete" button and the "Report as spam" button. If they want to keep that mail.utexas.edu account and have it forward their mail somewhere outside of our system, then they had damn well better be careful with that "Report as spam" button. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game. > > But that's simply not true. AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as > does Hotmail. I've had problems with a number of universities, as > well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn hard to get off the ban > list once we got on). Actually, fighting spam is one area where AOL has historically done pretty well. I know that it was the biggest part of my job when I was the Sr. Internet Mail System Administrator there, and I took my job very seriously. We did a lot of things to prevent our customers from spamming, and we did a lot of things to try to protect them from getting spam. We also set up the feedback loop mechanism (and I think AOL was the first site to create such a thing), so that admins at other sites around the world could get reports about what was happening through their mail servers. Where AOL has fallen down is by making the "Report as Spam" button far too easy to hit, and doesn't require any kind of confirmation or anything. And they don't give any negative feedback to their users when they just hit the "Report as Spam" button when they are actually getting mail that they really did ask for, but they're just being stupid. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/20/08, Attila Kinali wrote: >> This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a >> blanket policy. > > It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails > a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones. > Any greylisting that is half way sanely implemented should know after > the second mail that the server is a legitimate sender. Yahoo! has demonstrated that they don't understand the greylisting concept anyway, so this is unlikely. They use a shared pool of outbound messages through all of their outbound mail servers, so you're pretty much guaranteed that the same message will never be touched by the same machine twice. This ensures that their outbound mail will never be received by a site that implements a strict per-machine greylisting policy. Only a looser network-level greylisting policy, will have any chance of working with Yahoo, and even then it won't work very well -- they just have too many outbound machines on too many different networks. > I don't know whether i should do domain keys. Sofar it was never > a problem that we got tagged as spamers, it might be worth it > if more ISPs start to filter based on these. PGP is definitly > not an option. We send out way over 100k mails per day over mailinglists > (at some days it reaches even 200k mails/d). Signing all of them on the > server would produce too much load. This is the fundamental problem with creating or verifying all crypto signatures of all mail passing through a server. You've got a really nice self-DDoS attack there, created for us by the nice authors of the DomainKeys and DKIM proposals. This has been tried before, and failed, for the same reason. Do some Googling on the term "pgpsendmail". -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > If you're in a hosted environment, you might think about asking your > host to implement domain keys and/or PGP-signing your mail. (Mailman > is (was?) not friendly to domain keys of non-owner posters, but in the > case of an announcement list having the host sign the post should work > fine.) Using PGP is not going to help, but DomainKeys may. The administrator of the mail server in question could also sign up for the Yahoo! "feedback loop" mechanism (see <http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/postmaster-30.html>). I've recently started working at the University of Texas at Austin, and it looks like I'm going to be doing some of their postmaster work. I've been trying to get our mail servers signed up for various feedback loop mechanisms at major providers around the world, as well as subscribed to at least one or two "bonded sender" type programs. We're one of the largest public research Universities in the world with ~50,000 students and ~20,000 faculty and staff, and I can tell you from first hand experience that this is a painful process. I filed our request with Yahoo!, but have not yet heard anything back. We're on the AOL feedback loop, and getting quite a lot of reports about our users, many of which are hitting the "report as spam" button for messages that were forwarded to them from their mail.utexas.edu account, which means that AOL thinks we're sending them spam, when in fact we're just forwarding mail for a given user, which just happens to be spam. We're also on the feedback loop for TimeWarner/RoadRunner, discovered that Gmail doesn't have any such service, and the people at NetZero/UnitedOnline really have no clue -- they don't get the fact that UT actually is their own ISP, we are our own phone company, we are our own power company, we are basically our own city and we provide all of our own various services, for a mid-size city community of about 70,000 people. Oh, and Windows Live (you can't call it Hotmail anymore) requires that you have a registered Windows Live ID before you can sign up for their equivalent "Smart Network Data Services" program. One problem with trying to get on all the various feedback loop processes, and obtaining service from a bonded sender program, is that they all have different requirements. Some require SPF, some require Sender ID, some require DomainKeys, some require DKIM, some require that you sign up for service with ReturnPath/SenderScoreCertified, some require Habeas, some require GoodMail, and some require service with any of several other such services. No one can do all of these things, and many people find it difficult enough to do just one or two. This is turning into a situation worse than TMDA, where the recipient site can't be bothered to do any real work themselves, so they force everyone else to do their work for them. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Sending MovableType notifications via Mailman
On 2/13/08, Eric Lee wrote: > This looks like something terribly wrong with the setup of Mailman -- and > the setup was done by my web hosting provider as part of Plesk on a virtual > server. They're not responding to requests for support. It sounds to me like you've got a disconnect there between your MTA and Mailman, and since they did this with Plesk, only your hosting provider can help you. If they're not being responsive, your only choice may be to find a different hosting provider. > Could it be that there's something in the setup of Mailman which I can > change? It is possible that Mailman may be blocking receipt of any postings > from external sources (i.e., emails sent from different servers)? You'd have to look at the logs to be able to see anything, and you can't do that if all you've got is the web interface. Again, your hosting provider needs to be willing and able to do that, otherwise they shouldn't be offering the service at all. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
On 2/12/08, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > Groupwise grew out of WordPerfect Office, which was a shared-file > type of system, but as I understand, Groupwise has been a real client/ > server setup for years now. (Novell claims it'll run on windows, netware, > and unix/linux). Since it does have an "Internet mail" connector, or > whatevern Novell calls it, it should be able to interface with Mailman > somehow. Even if they have a gateway program that runs on Unix, doesn't mean that it's a properly full-featured MTA like sendmail, postfix, Exim, etc This just isn't a particularly good choice for this function. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Groupwise
On 2/11/08, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > If GW can deliver via SMTP, but not pipes, adding another MTA to the > path should get around this (GW -> Postfix via SMTP, psotfix uses a pipe to > send into mailman.) That was was initial thought behind the postfix > suggestion. I don't consider it exactly an elegent solution, but > it should work. Disclaimer: All of what is about to follow is based on my past experience and my current understanding. However, I don't have any direct hands-on experience with the software in question. GroupWise is a PC-based LAN e-mail package, so you're unlikely to get postfix also running on that same box, unless you're using virtual machine technology to run multiple different server OSes on the same physical box. It's not a traditional MTA, it's more of a gateway to a proprietary LAN e-mail package, and isn't going to handle well the inbound aliases issue for Mailman -- much like using Exchange as your MTA. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages disappeared from admindb
On 2/10/08, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > I think the whole site could use some reorganization. I had seen the > FAQ Wizard page before, but I have no idea how I got there. If I follow > the FAQ link in the left-hand nav panel, I get the old one. Barry Warsaw has suggested that the entire FAQ Wizard should go away and everything converted over to the Wiki. However, so far no one has expressed much interest in taking on the task of converting all the FAQ Wizard entries over to wiki format, so that they could then be edited and re-organized as appropriate. If you like, you're welcome to take on that role. ;-) -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Temporary ban on lists?
On 2/9/08, Dennis Carr wrote: > One of the rules on the FFML were for temporary bans; I think that > Ecartis (the former list software) had such a facility, but after I > took time to RTFM I haven't seen anything as such in the Mailman set. > > Is there an easy way to do this, or will I need to hack out an at(1) > job for the time being when this comes up? You can set the moderation bit for a give user, yes. You can also set "emergency moderation" for an entire list, and cause all posts from everyone to be handled according to your moderation policy. Was there something else specific that you wanted? -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] can't get self post after enabling "Receive your own posts to the list"
On 2/7/08, Forrest Sheng Bao wrote: > I am just beginning to use Mailman and found a strange problem. I haven > enabled "*Receive your own posts to the list*" in my personal options. Since > I am also the admin, I also unchecked the "not metoo" box of myself at > membership administration section. But I found that I still couldn't get the > posts I sent. Can someone tell me why? See FAQ 2.8. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] OT: Barracuda Reputation
On 2/6/08, Karl Zander wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. What I find most frustrating is sites just > trusting this stuff without thought. "Our spam filter caught it, > therefore it is bad. You have a problem and are sending spam." Sigh. > If I am able to walk them through the "look at the topic being > discussed" some come around. Yes, Barracuda is screwed up and very badly managed. Always has been (although it's gotten worse since they first rolled out), probably always will. Of the appliances, Ironport seems to be not-too-bad on the technical "does it work" side, and seems to scale much better, too. Personally, I don't like any kind of appliance for this role, but if you have to have an appliance, Ironport seems like it would be a much better choice than Barracuda. IMO, people who use Barracuda get what they deserve. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Still Lost
On 2/5/08, Thomas J Casey wrote: > In an email from Brad Knowles, he stated: If they are not subscribers, "then > they need to be on the whitelist." But I cannot find a whitelist anywhere. Go to the web mail admin interface for your list. Go to the "Privacy options..." sub-page, then to "Sender filters". The second field on the page should be labeled "accept_these_nonmembers" with a description of "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted." That's your whitelist. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing qrunner stops working and outgoing mails get stuck
On 2/5/08, ippaso wrote: > Here is the log from the smtp server for that time, in case it can help: > (qmail is patched to check the 'rcpt to' against a valid addresses list > before accepting a message and to reject during the smtp conversation > the mails which achieve a very high spamassassin spam score) You really want to avoid doing any kind of anti-spam check for outgoing mail from Mailman. All those checks should be done on input, and should not need to be done on output. Moreover, you really don't want to do any kind of recipient address validation, if the recipient in question is not local to your network -- that could easily be mistaken by remote sites for a spammer trying to verify his mailing list. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] managing pending subscriptions and confirmations
On 2/3/08, Jan Steinman wrote: > One of my clients is considering using a paid service called "Constant > Contact" (http://www.constantcontact.com) because they claim they can > get through people's spam filters. Lots of companies have made claims like this. In my experience, their target market is other companies who want to get their paid spam through the spam filters of various recipients. So, unless you want to be lumped in with other spammers who are using a paid service to try to get their spam through someone's spam filters, I wouldn't recommend using them. There are services out there that can check to see if your systems are on any known black lists, etc... and then report that back to you. They don't help you get spam through someone else's spam filters, but they do help you discover when your servers may have been accidentally listed on someone else's black lists. I would recommend using services like this, if you don't have the ability to do those sorts of things in-house. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] I desperate need of help
On 2/2/08, Thomas J Casey wrote: > 1. when a person submits an email for distribution and received by the > recipients, the From: field displays: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; on > behalf of; Thomas J Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. We would like to remove the > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; on behalf of; and the > [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the end. > > Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up. See FAQ 2.3 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>. > 2. when a person replies to the email, it attempts to reply to the > originator only (example: Thomas J Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not to the > distribution list of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Can this be setup and if possible how can I set it up. See FAQ 3.48 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp>. > 3. I need to able to define who is authorized to submit email for > redistribution. I was told by Support that the individuals email must be > added to the General Section of Mailman in the List Moderator section. This > causing havoc with the 87 individuals who are currently contained within the > List Moderator section. They receive ever notice when an individual is > added, removed, moderator request(s) waiting, failure notices and the like. You don't set them up as moderators. If they are subscribers to the list, you simply clear their moderation bit, leaving everyone else with their moderation bit set. If they are not subscribers, then they need to be on the whitelist. > Can Mailman be setup that only those individuals defied in the General > Section of Mailman in the List Administrator section be notified and if > possible how can I set it up. If you want them all to be notified of every moderation action that needs to be taken, then a simple way would be to set up an alias or mailing list for those people, and then list the alias or other mailing list as the moderator for the lists in question. But list moderation can be a huge load of work, so I'm not sure you want that. > 4. when a person attempts to send an email to a mailing list, there > email is held until I attend to it. That's standard list moderation. > Once authorized in #3, can the process of submission and distribution be > automatic? Sure. For those people who are approved to post to the list without moderation, just clear their moderation bit or put them on the whitelist. Alternatively, you could let them have the list moderator password, and have them put the password in their message, according to the instructions in FAQ 3.11 and 3.34 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp> and <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp>, respectively. > I have been in contact with Support at Host Monster multiple times, and they > have been no help whatsoever. I've weeded through the instruction on > Mailman at: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html but am more > confused then ever. Regretfully, if your mailing lists are provided by a hosting service, they need to be your first stop for all support questions. If they are not responsive to you, then you should look around to find a mailing list service provider that is responsive. > As you can imagine, I'm getting a lot of heat to rectify these problems PDQ. > This is a Boy Scout Troop and I volunteer my services but these problems are > causing us more problems then Mailman is worth to us. Once you get things set up, I think you'll be fine. There's just some minor issues you're not used to, at least partly because of the other software you've been using until now. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
On 1/30/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > This is false. "Open source" means you can do what you like, and > Mailman actually will distribute it for you as a patch on the issue > tracker. Not quite. If he uploads his code as a patch to the tracker, we will most likely leave it there, and at some point it may get considered for inclusion in a future version of Mailman. Beyond that, we can't make much in the way of promises. > (*) Anything not over Barry Warsaw's signature is *un*official, > although Mark Sapiro and Tokio Kikuchi have a huge amount to say about > what actually gets implemented. Brad Knowles is just channelling the > main developers, I wouldn't say that I was channeling them. I would say that I'm trying to do what I can to support them and to allow them to spend what little time they have on their "real" work, as far as the project is concerned. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
On 1/29/08, Mikhail T. wrote: > As you may realize, I have no idea of the Mailman project hierarchy. Brad's > words sounded quite authoritative, and he was no contradicted in any > follow-ups... I'm not a core developer for the project. I'm just the current active postmaster/Internet mail system administrator/listmaster/Mailman site admin for python.org, as well as the co-owner of all the various mailman-* mailing lists on python.org. I try to do what I can to offload the various core developers (including Barry, Mark, and Tokio) and to allow them to spend as much time as they can on their "real" work as far as the project is concerned. Feel free to check out my LinkedIn profile (URL below) if you want to get some idea of my previous experience in this field. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
On 1/29/08, Mikhail T. wrote: > May I suggest, you underestimate the importance of this feature? >Cross-posting > may often be justified from the end-user perspective, but is discouraged by > the admins exactly because it increases the archival-storage requirements... I've never once heard an admin discourage cross-posting because of archival storage requirements. In my experience, the issue of cross-posting has much more to do with political control, some admins not wanting their lists to be well-publicised, and no admin liking to have to deal with the problem when hundreds of users from other lists try to do a "reply-all" that includes their lists and then the message gets rejected or put in the hold queue because those other people are not subscribers to the list. > Brad, I brought up a particular IMAP-server's implementation as /an example/ > of how a single message can appear in multiple mailboxes, while only copy of > it is stored. You refer to this as "single instance store". We don't really have mailboxes at all. We have mail archives. The raw mail archives are kept in 7th edition "mbox" format, and for the "cooked" archives they are broken down by month (or other archive rotation policy as set by the listowner) and either stored as something akin to 7th edition mbox format files (for the plain text archives) or split up into multiple *.html files for the HTML format archives, but in none of these cases are any of these files what you would call a "mailbox" per se. > IMAP-server developers are just more affected by the same issue -- people > CC-ing multiple addressees results in the same message getting to multiple > mailboxes. IMAP-server admins also don't have the "luxury" of prohibiting > CC-ing, as mailing-list admins often do. So IMAP-servers already implement > the "single instance store", and it would be nice (and logical) if mailing > list software did too -- starting with the recognized leader of the pack... UW-IMAP certainly doesn't do single instance store, and I'm pretty sure that Courier-IMAP and Dovecot don't do single instance store by default. There's a lot of problems that come along with single instance store that people are not likely to turn on such features by default. > And yet Google does just that -- de-duplication -- in its search >results... It > will display a warning at the bottom of the page, saying that duplicate > results were suppressed... That's just search results. They're not actually storing the original copies of those objects, and they give you the option of turning off that feature if you like. That's completely different from doing an Internet-wide de-duplication of all data. > Well, this is more important -- I was under the (mistaken) >impression, that it > does. There is no point arguing, how a good search-engine should do things on > a Mailman forum, if Mailman implements no search function. We don't do forums, either. We do provide hooks that other people have used to implement such features, but none of that has been incorporated into the baseline version of Mailman. > I hope, you'll give the idea of "single instance storage" another thought. > There is already an option to archive in "Maildir" format. Optionally storing > hardlinks instead of copies of cross-posts can't be too difficult... I believe you'll find it a lot harder than you think to convert the entire archive storage mechanism to use Maildir as an option, and then to integrate single instance store on top of that. Once you do that, you're welcome to contribute the code, and then it becomes a matter of when one of the core developers can take a look at that code and decide whether or not to actually incorporate that into a future version of Mailman. Personally, I think we have much higher priorities elsewhere, but then I don't assign tasks to guys like Mark Sapiro, Tokio Kikuchi, or Barry Warsaw. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
With regards to the Mailman project, Barry Warsaw is the only one who can give you the definitive answer as to whether or not this concept is or is not acceptable in principal. Mark Sapiro and Tokio Kikuchi may disagree with him, and if so it will be up to them to convince him that they are right. I'm just a non-developer associated with the project who is pointing out the practical realities of the nature of the 100% unpaid/all- volunteer nature of the project and that there are ten thousand times more things that people think should be done and which are probably higher on the list of priorities, and we have very limited resources to allocate. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2008, at 6:30 PM, "Mikhail T." wrote: > צ×ÔÏÒÏË 29 Ó¦ÞÅÎØ 2008 05:24 ÐÏ, Stephen J. Turnbull > ÷É ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌÉ: >> This is false. "Open source" means you can do what you like, and >> Mailman actually will distribute it for you as a patch on the issue >> tracker. Many contributions have lived full life cycles that way. > > Thank you, sir, for the encouragement, but I don't want my > hypothetical > contribution to live this way. I've contributed plenty to various > open- (and > closed-) source projects over the years (no, really, I did) and > found, that > it hurts me the most, when something I develop is rejected not > because of it > being poorly implemented, but because the powers-that-be consider in > wrong /in principle/. > > My interest in Mailman is not sufficient to fork my own version > either and I > don't look forward to maintaining my patch(es), updating them to > keep working > with the evolving Mailman. > >> Anything not over Barry Warsaw's signature is *un*official [...] Brad >> Knowles is just channelling the main developers > > As you may realize, I have no idea of the Mailman project hierarchy. > Brad's > words sounded quite authoritative, and he was no contradicted in any > follow-ups... > >> It should go without saying that it's very interesting; this is a >> FAQ [...] > > Woo-hoo. That's encouraging. Well, if the only thing, that prevented > the > feature from appearing by now, is lack of development resources, > then I'll > get right on it. Thanks, > > -mi > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
I was speaking in terms of the practical reality of a 100% unpaid all- volunteer project, like Mailman. There are simply way too many other things going on that are much higher priority. If you pay certain Mailman developers real money for such a feature, then it will get done. If you write such a feature yourself or get someone else to write it for you and contribute that back to the Mailman project, then there's at least a decent chance it may be considered for inclusion in a future release, although you should keep in mind that it takes a fair amount of time and effort to validate someone else's code, albeit somewhat less than writing it yourself. I don't see any other possible options as far as the Mailman project is concerned. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2008, at 11:17 AM, "Mikhail T." wrote: > צ×ÔÏÒÏË 29 Ó¦ÞÅÎØ 2008 12:05 ÐÏ, Steve Burling ÷É > ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌÉ: >> I love comments like this. If it "can't be too difficult...", I s >> uggest >> you put on your Python programming hat, and get coding. > > Whatever I code up will, naturally, need to be approved by the > project-maintainers. This is why securing their acceptance /in > principle/ is > important before beginning the actual work. > > As long as the official position remains: > > < of > Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will.>> > > demanding work from a would-be contributor is facetious and > insincere... > > If I get something like: "Uhm, interesting, please send your > patches", I'll > get to work... Yours, > > -mi > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
Google does not provide all the storage for all the content in question, although they may have a cache of it. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2008, at 1:21 AM, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Brad Knowles writes: > >> No search engine author in their right mind should ever consider >> doing de-duplication on their own, although they might be willing to >> provide that feature to customers who demand the option. > > Google does. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
On 1/28/08, Mikhail Teterin wrote: > Well, depending on the archival method, a message can appear in both, with > only a single copy of it being stored. This can be achived, for example, > using symbolic (or even hard) links. We do not do a "single instance store" within the archiving system of Mailman, and I can pretty much guarantee you that we never will. That's not to say that this is necessarily a bad idea, but I think we have much, much more important issues to resolve -- and probably will, for the entire future history of Mailman. > Similarly, if a relational database is > employed, the same message can be referred to from multiple places. We don't employ a relational database within Mailman, or the archiving system. If you want to implement that kind of function according to the API and programming hooks that we provide, that would be completely and totally outside the scope of Mailman per se. > Hardlinks, for example, is how one IMAP-server (cyrus, I believe) stores > messages sent to multiple recipients. We do not implement any kind of IMAP or other user mailbox service with Mailman. If you want that, you should go somewhere else. > But I was referring to search-results only. Regardless of how the >messages are > stored, if I type the search string and select several of the mailing list > archives to search through, the same message may appear in my search results > more than once. That duplication should not happen -- I don't think, anyone > would disagree. I *violently* disagree with your claim. If a message was cross-posted to multiple mailing lists and indexed by Google, then Google will most certainly return multiple hits for the same message, and this is precisely what any proper search engine should do. De-duplication at this level is absolutely the worst thing you could do -- at least by default, although this could potentially be an alternative that the search engine author could offer as an alternative. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
On 1/28/08, Mikhail T. wrote: > Yes, of course. But a single mailman installation hosting multiple mailing > lists already has the complete knowledge, does not it? Nope. All you have for each list knows is a bunch of e-mail addresses that are subscribed. When sending out a message that has been cross-posted to multiple lists, one thing you could do is an equivalent to "sort | uniq" for all of the recipient e-mail addresses, but you have no way of know if a single person has multiple different addresses that are subscribed to one or more lists. And I believe that interactive mail messages are handled separately from digests. > Yes, absolutely -- the only key is Message-Id. Even if a hash of the message > body /could/ be used as the key, I think, a different Message-Id means, the > message should be sent again. Message-id is not really good enough. There have been many examples of clients that do not create sufficiently unique message-ids for different messages. But if the recipient wants to that that risk within their mail system, that's their choice. > I think, this function is already here. When I first sent message to this > list, it bounced, because I was not a subscriber. The bounce suggested, that > I subscribe ALL of my addresses and mark some of them as "NOMAIL". This would > seem to indicate, that multiple addresses-per-person feature is already > established. Uh, no. I think I may have written that bounce message. I guarantee you that this feature does not yet exist in Mailman. > This is true. But if /most/ duplicates are eliminated by this, then the > remaining /few/ may be acceptable to allow cross-posting to relevant mailing > lists. Most of the anti-duplication features can't be delivered until Mailman3. The sister-list concept that Mark has introduced with Mailman 2.1.10 is the best we're likely to be able to see for a long time. > AFAIU, the message will appear in the search results multiple times -- once > per mailing list. That is not justified -- the results should contain no > repetitions... Mailman does not incorporate any search function, therefore which searches return which messages is totally and completely irrelevant to Mailman. Moreover, searches across multiple lists should most definitely return multiple hits for the same message, if it was posted to multiple lists. If you want any other kind of behaviour, then that would be up to you and how you configure your particular search query. No search engine author in their right mind should ever consider doing de-duplication on their own, although they might be willing to provide that feature to customers who demand the option. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Efficient handling of cross-posting
On 1/28/08, Mikhail T. wrote: > Can our mailman installation be tweaked to eliminate all or some of the above > undesirable effects? Thanks, Not without source-code level modifications, no. The elimination of duplicates being sent to individuals is something that might be implemented in a future version of Mailman, but that would require that each list have complete knowledge of who all the overlapping subscribers are for all the other lists that are known recipients of the message. And that would still break down if the sender created one message and sent it to one list, then took the same message and sent it separately to another list, etc Moreover, the list can't know that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the same person as [EMAIL PROTECTED] on another list, although future versions of Mailman will allow people the option of registering multiple different e-mail addresses that are all associated with the same identity, so if they choose to make use of that function, you would at least have a better chance. Either way, I wouldn't look for these features to arrive before the mythical Mailman3 that we occasionally hear about. OTOH, I'm not sure that this is something that should ever be the responsibility of the mailing list software. The complete suppression of duplicates is something that can only be done conclusively by the receiver, and not the sender. As for the rest, the message was sent to multiple lists, and therefore it should definitely show up in multiple archives. I don't think that you're going to find any way around that one. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] ldap
On 1/28/08, Wanjiku Maina wrote: > Hi does how does openldap work with mailman? The same as any other database. Create a flat file and use "sync_members". See Barry Finkel's response on this to Zbigniew Szalbot. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Customizing by adding fields to Listinfo page
On 1/26/08, Kathy Gee wrote: > Can I customize the Listinfo page by adding one or two fields to prompt > for more information from a subscriber? Not easily, no. There's no place to store that information, even if you could ask for it. > If yes, what python script(s) > do I need to also modify to make this work so the web admin interface > can display the information entered for these new fields when the form > is submitted? This question is probably better asked on the mailman-developers list. However, before posting there, I would encourage you to check their archives, because I'm sure that this has come up hundreds or thousands of times before. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin sendmail virtualusers and mail lists
On 1/26/08, Noah wrote: > any clues how I can get my specific procmailrc file to run the mailman > mail-wrapper with the group mailnull. That sounds like a procmail question you should ask on their mailing lists. We don't do procmail -- we do Mailman. > Is there something funky I can do > to my /etc/groups ? Nope. > Maybe I could recompile my program with the mailman > wrapper with two mailman gids? Not possible. A person can be listed in multiple groups (and switch between which group is considered the "active one"), but each file can have one and only one group id. The long and short of it is that spam tagging filtering should be done in the MTA (not procmail), before the message gets delivered to Mailman. Once Mailman receives the message, you can use the internal features to do further anti-spam processing based on tags that were placed on the message within the MTA. Note that procmail should never be part of that pipeline. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
On 1/25/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Thake the million # List and break it into 1000 member Lists and START > from there. Yep, gonna mean that you will have to reveiw EACH member > of EACH 1000 person List. But you can't really do that, either. One key difference between spam and a proper mailing list is that you have hard confirmation from the recipient that they asked to get the particular content in question. In other words, they signed themselves up for a list, they got a confirmation notice, and they then acted on the confirmation notice to say "yes, I really do want this content". Any time you buy a large list of addresses from somewhere, you bypass the first steps of that process, and that would make you a spammer. Even if you just send out invitations to those people to join your list, and you don't send anything else to them without their explicit confirmation, you're still a spammer. The Direct Marketing Association says that they just want one bite of your apple, no more. But when you've got a billion people taking just one bite each out of your apple, do you honestly think you're going to have an apple left? -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Promotion
On 1/24/08, Barry Warsaw wrote: > However, I think it's perfectly appropriate to denounce spammers, and > refuse to help them. Speaking only for myself, if I discover that someone has actively used Mailman to further their illegal and/or immoral spamming activities, then I will take any and all actions I can to terminate their electronic existence with extreme prejudice. However, before I start the New Dresden Firestorm, I will do everything I can to make sure that they really are spammers and not just horribly misguided. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] two mailman installations..
On 1/23/08, Khalil Abbas wrote: > the question is, is there a way to prevent duplicate subscriptions? > because people subscribe to my newsletter by email sent to me, then > I collect all the emails and use the mass-subscribe option in the > web interface.. and some subscribers may exist in the first server > and not in the second one so that they will recieve the same email > twice. There are no built-in features in Mailman to prevent duplicate subscriptions across different servers. If you keep the official subscriber list in a back-end database and then you use sync_members, you should be able to split the list of subscribers and use the database to ensure that there aren't any duplications. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Newbie with recurring frustrations!
On 1/22/08, Joyce Dowling wrote: > I set up the listservs last month (5 of them that used to be on > Majordomo). They worked at first, but since then I have intermitten > problems with them not working ever since. But not working, I mean > messages to the lists don't post. I have no idea where they go, but > this is from various users. Also the "-owner" email addresses from > all of the lists have never worked & I've sent out numerous test > messages - they're supposed to come to me and another list admin, bu > they never show up. These are problems that can only be resolved by your site administrator. If they are not being responsive to you, then I'd suggest that you might want to find a different hosting provider/site administrator. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mixed up languages
On 1/22/08, H.F. Harperink wrote: > I use mailman 2.1.5 on Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper and maintain two lists. One in > English, one in German. I tried to update mailman but 2.1.5 seems to be > the latest for Dapper. In most cases, we suggest that you install Mailman from our source tarballs as available from <http://www.list.org/download.html>, as opposed to using a binary package version developed by someone else. This is particularly important when talking about the latest binary package version for a particular platform being very old. > Am I doing something wrong here, or is this a typical Mailman problem. I > could find nothing about this anywhere, not even the sourceforge buglist. > If I could I would translate the needed files myself, but that does not > seem te be easy to implement myself on the mailman installation. It sounds to me like the version you have installed does not have a complete translation included for supporting German. I haven't heard any complaints like this regarding 2.1.5 in the past, so I would suspect that this may be a problem that is specific to your binary packaged version -- if you were to install the same version from our tarballs, that might work. OTOH, this might be a problem specific to version 2.1.5 that we have corrected in the years since, and you might need to install a more recent version from our source tarballs. We're up to version 2.1.9 now, with 2.1.10 in late beta (awaiting completion of translation to the many different languages we support). Either way, I'd suggest installing from the source tarballs to see if that fixes the problems. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a mailman list setup
On 1/22/08, Matthew Farr wrote: > From looking at the documentation, it looks like I need to configure > Postfix, and maybe a virtual domain file? I'm at a loss. If anyone is > willing to help, I do take direction well. Where do I start? The Mailman documentation is available under <http://www.list.org/docs.html>. From the sound of it, you need to start with the Site Administrator documentation, particularly section 6.1 at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages Appearing Twice
On 1/21/08, David Andrews wrote: > The text of messages is appearing twice in the digests for some of my > lists. There will be the normal digest stuff, then the first message > with headers etc., then it will say > next part One problem I've seen is that the folks at Gmane.org provide an internal mail/news gateway service for many mailing lists, and if someone posts through Gmane.org using a newsreader that also sends out a copy of the message by e-mail, then you'll see two copies of those messages -- one directly from the poster, one via the gateway at Gmane.org. This is another reason why I believe Gmane should be terminated with extreme prejudice. However, this is not the only type of message duplication that can occur. You really need to take a look at the raw archives for the list and compare & contrast the respective "Received:" headers of the duplicate messages. With luck, it won't be too hard to figure out where the duplication is occurring. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] pipermail converts @ to at
On 1/21/08, Florian Effenberger wrote: > pipermail converts @ to at in it's archives. I have disabled it for the > sender of a message, but it seems to be non-configurable for the >message body. Try turning off address obfuscation. Of course, then what you've done is to provide an archive of known valid e-mail addresses which spammers can make good use of, so you'll want to make sure that your archives are private and that your list is not advertised. Otherwise, you've just opened up all the posters to your list to getting even more spam than they do already. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
On 1/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Unfortunately all the development I can do (on Dreamhost) is pasting > into the edithtml.cgi window, and no matter how much I do I still > can't remove imbalanced tags from parts of mailman I have no access > to. Oh, and if you're going to be involved in translations, the best place to start is <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Internationalization>. You'll be guided to the mailman-i18n mailing list, the list of current language champions, etc -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
On 1/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Unfortunately all the development I can do (on Dreamhost) is pasting > into the edithtml.cgi window, and no matter how much I do I still > can't remove imbalanced tags from parts of mailman I have no access > to. That may be the only public place you've got Mailman installed, but it should be trivially easy for someone of your skill to install Mailman locally on your desktop and then do further development and translation work there. No one needs to be able to access the site from the outside world -- you just need to be able to see that the changes you've made have had the proper effect, and then you can contribute your changes to the project. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] translate strings, not whole templates
On 1/19/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > So I would advise before calling for help translating, first relieve > each translator from the task of keeping the HTML house of cards > intact. Don't require them also to be a HTML expert. Just use one > English template, and substitute strings into that. That's a nice idea. Of course, Mailman is an open source project that is 100% volunteer supported in our non-existent free time, and we have very limited resources for development. If you've spent any time on the Mailman pages at SourceForge, then you've seen all the hundreds of patches, requests for enhancement, etc... that have been filed. If you took a look at the current Mailman 2.1.10 beta code and compared that to earlier versions, you would see how much has changed over the years since the 2.1.* tree was first branched. And you would also see what kind of superhuman effort is put forth by people like Mark Sapiro, Tokio Kikuchi, Barry Warsaw and so many others. If you took a look at the Mailman wiki, you would get a chance to get some sort of idea what the long-term roadmap is for Mailman 2.2.x, 2.3.x, and even the mythical Mailman3, although because this is a 100% volunteer supported project and all the principals have real jobs that they have to pay full-time attention to in order to put food on the table, there can never be any kind of firm timetable for when any of the proposed features may actually be delivered. If you have useful code to contribute, we welcome that. If you have useful translation experience to provide, we gladly welcome that. If you have thousands or millions of dollars to donate to the project so that we can pay people to work full time on development for Mailman, we will be very glad to welcome that. Otherwise, you're welcome to file your RFEs and get in line with everyone else. You appear to have some knowledge of HTML, so you could at least file updated translations with appropriate templates and HTML structure, while we wait for whatever code improvements may be necessary so that the translation process is made easier and less error-prone. Ask not what the Mailman project can do for you. Ask what you can do for the Mailman project. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
On 1/19/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dudes, out of curiosity why can't mailman be totally installed and run > without involving root? Indeed maybe it would be a safer and more > portable installation. Feel free to give it a try and report back to us. > E.g., who cares what MTA is installed when one can just use: > > #Untested partial .procmailrc for a mailman list on a catchall mailbox > #for a domain. No need to have root adjust some MTA's configuration! Okay, so now you've just made Mailman 100% dependant on having procmail installed, as opposed to not really caring what MTA may be installed, and being able to work with multiple different MTAs. > There, see, I have rewritten your thinking: indeed a totally > non-root-involved installation keeps one insulated from (and meddling > with) the underlying details. Yes, rewritten your thinking, all > without testing. Hope it really works. "What could go wrong?" No, you haven't totally rewritten anything, except maybe your own memory of how you magically improve anything you touch. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Postfix->Mailman->Exchange - Where are my NDR's?
On 1/18/08, Lamaster, Robert wrote: > OK, after further research (I finally found a good source), I see that > Mailman discards bounce (NDR) messages (whether or not you turn on it's > bounce processing feature). Mailman will discard them, if you turn off the bounce processing feature. Otherwise, it will process them. By default, Mailman should forward to you a copy of all bounces it gets that it does not understand. So, it should only be processing those bounces which it does understand. In theory, you shouldn't have anything to worry about, at least as far as Mailman properly processing the bounces. > Is there any way I can temporarily intercept these for troubleshooting? > I'd just like to see some of the NDRs. It's all in your aliases. Just change your aliases for the appropriate "-bounces" address to go somewhere else, so that you can see everything. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Script
On 1/18/08, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > I am using mailman 2.18 and I have about 2,000 lists. I was wondering if > anybody had a script that would output which lists had messages needing to > be moderated. The mmdsr script that I wrote, and have contributed to the Mailman project, includes monitoring of which lists have messages waiting to be moderated as one of the many things it checks on and includes in the daily report it generates and sends to you. Mark Sapiro has recently made some modifications to this script to make it more friendly to installation on various different versions of Unix and Unix-like OSes which have slightly varying differences in the behaviour of certain commands like "sort". Although this script may also be available elsewhere, this version is included in the contrib/ directory of version 2.1.10 (which is currently in beta, waiting for translations to other languages to be completed). -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I see. See ya. Bye. Mailman is one of the most powerful and flexible mailing list management systems in the world, but it is not the right answer for everyone. If you're not a suitable candidate for using Mailman, then I'm sorry we can't help you, but we can't just wave a magic wand and make everything perfect for you instantly. > My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the > worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted? Mailman just wasn't designed to be installed that way. If you need a tool that can be installed that way, you need to look elsewhere. > Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess. > Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no > .procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web > access. I have full privileged command-line access to the python.org servers, because I am the currently active member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, as well as the Mailmn Site Administrator and co-moderator of the various mailman-* mailing lists. Frankly, I do almost all of my Mailman administration via the web. Typically, the only times I ever need to log onto the server and access things via the command line is when there is a problem with a particular user not being able to send e-mail to us and I need to go do some deep searching of the MTA logs on the server and compare/contrast those with the Mailman logs. > BK> You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like. > > My expertise is in just reporting lots of minor bugs. Apparently, you can also read at least one other language as well as English, so if you want to complain about the support that Mailman provides for other languages it would be pretty hypocritical of you to avoid contributing your skills and knowledge towards increasing the quality of the translations. We've got version 2.1.10 waiting in the wings, currently in the process of having the translations updated for other languages. This is an ideal opportunity for you to help yourself as well as to help others. Or, you could just keep complaining. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] English the best language
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > And how much damage would that cause if they did choose X, assuming I > made sure listinfo.html subscribe.html options.html subscribeack.txt, > i.e., the only pages in language X I can edit on Dreamhost, had all > the missing buttons etc. added back by me. This is an open source project, maintained entirely by volunteers in their non-existent free time. You're always welcome to contribute code changes. Failing that, the software costs exactly $0.00, and provides a pretty good Return On Investment for most users, including the hundreds of people who have been involved in producing all the language translations so far. You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe one per line, names too?
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Gentlemen, the administrator's mass subscriptions entry box does not > mention how to get their English names added too. Does one put them in like: > > Ted Blazanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Neurdovitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yup. This is mentioned in the archives, but I'm still looking for the relevant piece of documentation or the appropriate FAQ Wizard entry. > Also say I have chosen site language = English. May I still enter > Chinese UTF names or expect disaster? Dunno. The developers of Mailman have tried to make it as multi-language friendly as possible, but this may or may not work. Feel free to give it a try and let us know how it works out for you. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] great. no gmane
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I find it only natural to read mailing lists via NNTP/gnus/Gmane.org. > I can't imagine reading mailman-users via my little mailbox. > > However we *denied* gmane: Gmane shot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly. If they had contacted us beforehand, we might have been more accommodating. Since they repeatedly ignored their own procedures in this regard, we have no choice but to prohibit them from providing any kind of NNTP gateway services for this list. By all rights, they should be banned from providing any NNTP gateway services for any list hosted at python.org, but I have not pushed that issue. At least, not yet. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Does one really need root privileges to install mailman? Yup. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Same list name, different domains...
On 1/17/08, Barry Finkel wrote: > Then, as I was typing this reply I noticed that if this list were named > "board", then you would have two lists with the same name. Even if the > names are in different virtual domains, you cannot have two lists > with the same name in Mailman 2.1.9. I am not sure if this restriction > will be removed in 2.1.10. This restriction cannot be removed before Mailman 2.2.x, at the earliest. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Howto find Users for a list?
On 1/17/08, Chris Penn wrote: > I need to create a list of users for a particular list. is there a way I > can find out who is subscribed to a list in mailman? You can go to the web admin page for the list, then to the "Membership Management" page. If you need anything more, see the FAQ Wizard for the command-line alternatives. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Change -owner addresses
On 1/17/08, Joakim Nömell wrote: > Hi all. I have just upgraded my system to MM 2.1.9 and wonder if it is > possible to change the -owner-addresses to something else? The reason is > that we receive a lot of spam after 3 years use. We already have > spam-filters. Go to the main web admin page for your list, type in a different address in the second field, the one for the listowner address(es), then hit the "Submit Your Changes" button at the bottom of the page. It's pretty simple. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Qmail
On 1/16/08, Chris Penn wrote: > Does anyone know howto setup Qmail and Mailman to work together. The > mailman site has not been very helpful. I am attempting to do this on > Centos 5 using Mailman 2.1.9. Unfortunately, qmail hasn't really been updated in about a decade, and doesn't play particularly well with non-djb code. What we've been able to figure out for integration with qmail is found in the Mailman documentation, although you may find some more tidbits in the archives. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to avoidmember-only restrictions
On 1/16/08, LuKreme wrote: >>> Are there plans to enhance the web subscription form with a type of >>> captcha, or other technique to discourage bots? >> >> There is no current plan. > > There really should be. CAPTCHAs don't work. The best mechanism I've found so far that does work is to moderate (or discard or reject) postings from non-subscribers, and to moderate new subscribers by default. Once they prove they are human beings and capable posting reasonably on-topic messages to the list, you can clear their moderation bit. Nothing else I've seen actually works. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] attachments in every email showing
On 1/16/08, Liss wrote: > I've finally got my mailing list up and running, but no matter what I do, > every single msg comes with a .txt attachment. I cant figure out how to shut > it off! Search the FAQ Wizard for "footer". -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Spamassasin and Mailman
On 1/16/08, James Grace wrote: > A quick question on how to implement SpamAssasin with Mailman. How? >:} Quick answer -- don't. Do it in your MTA instead. Long answer -- see the FAQ Wizard. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman to send email via another port (not port 25)
On 1/16/08, Spyro Polymiadis wrote: > Is there a way to configure mailman to not send mail to lists members via > the default SMTP port? > Can I force it to use a second smtp port on the mail server, ie port 2500 > for instance? From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py: # SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect'. Make sure the # host exists and is resolvable (i.e., if it's the default of "localhost" be # sure there's a localhost entry in your /etc/hosts file!) SMTPHOST = 'localhost' SMTPPORT = 0 # default from smtplib Of course, if you want to make any changes to use alternative hostnames or ports, you'd make those in your mm_cfg.py file and then restart Mailman. Take a long look through this file. There's lots of good stuff here. Consider this file to be part of the documentation you should be looking at. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Sender shows up as (list)-bounces rather than (list) for some users
On 1/15/08, Alan Sill wrote: > Some e-mail programs apparently report the sender as in the Sender: > field rather than the From: field in hte headers of the e-mail > messages sent via my mailman e-mail lists. As a result, when these > users send, or perhaps reply, to messages, they go to the (list)- > bounces@(server) address rather than to (list)@(server) as I would wish. As Mark Sapiro just said a few minutes ago to another person, see FAQ 2.3 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>. This is not a Mailman problem, there's nothing we can do to help you. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
On 1/15/08, Charles Marcus wrote: > I take it thats the way you should do it for any of them? > > I edited the 'postheld.txt' template in the templates/en directory, > instead of copying it to the list subdir. If you edited the file in-place, then when you do your next upgrade, that template will get replaced. If you copy it to a list-specific subdirectory (as I suggested), then it won't get replaced as part of the next upgrade. > It works, and I did want the change for all lists - but it is good to > know how to do a custom one for an individual list if I need to... FAQ 4.48 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp> has more information about editing the templates and what you need to do in order to get them to be picked up. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Cannot Post to My Mailing List
On 1/15/08, Liss wrote: > But when I send a message to the list, from the admin, mod's ,etc `~ no > matter WHAT I try I absolutely cannot get the msg to go through the list. > Nothing shows up in the archives. I don't receive any bounce error msgs, > Nothing. They just.. Vanish. Search for "troubleshoot" in the FAQ Wizard (see <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>). Follow all the instructions. Report back here. If you are not able to follow all the instructions because you don't have access to some of the information, you need to talk to your web hosting company and get them to go through that process with you. If you can't get them to do that, then there's nothing more we can do to help you. See also FAQ 6.11 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Edit monthly reminder?
On 1/15/08, Mikael Hansen wrote: > I searched the archive, but could find no answer to my question. Is > it possible to edit/modify the contents of the membership reminder > that is sent out monthly by email? It's a template stored in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en/, which you can copy to /usr/local/mailman/lists//en/, and then edit it locally in that directory. If you don't have privileged site admin access to the server where Mailman is installed and running, then you'll need to ask your site admin to do this on your behalf. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Auto accept
On 1/14/08, Chris O'Connell wrote: > I have a list where I want the emails to go automatically from a certain > email address instead of having to be approved. Where do I enable this > please? See the Mailman List Administration Manual, specifically section 2.7.2 at <http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node22.html>. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
On 1/12/08, Dennis Putnam wrote: >> Certainly, the name dap002.bellsouth.net does not exist in the DNS. >> If this is what your system is trying to use to identify itself to >> the outside world, that would be a problem. > > Only mailman is trying to use that name. Not true. Check your own syslog files. They very clearly say "dap002" in the hostname field. Syslog and perhaps other processes are somehow picking up that value from somewhere. You should find out where. >> I suspect that the problem you're having may be a hostname or MTA >> misconfiguration issue, which Mailman is not involved in, and which >> cannot be fixed within Mailman. > > If that we the case, why is it only mailman sending mail that is > effected? As I demonstrated, when using the 'mail' command, everything > is fine. You could trace the entire SMTP dialog process and see what input is actually being generated. With postfix, you could increase the debugging level, or you could use alternative programs (like tcpdump or WireShark) to sniff the traffic at the network layer. I'd suggest doing both. Without hard evidence one way or the other, it's difficult to tell. > There is no MTA setting that would effect mailman and nothing else > that I can find? Any suggestions? Within the MTA configuration, there should not be anything that would affect only Mailman. It should affect everything that passes through the machine, but for example if Mailman is using unqualified host names for outgoing mail, then the MTA may be configured to try to fix that, and in the process of "fixing" that, other problems might be caused. This is why you need to know exactly what is being sent "on the wire" between Mailman and the MTA, and what the MTA is doing internally with what it is getting from Mailman. > Keep in mind this was a working system that started giving me trouble > after a restore. It's entirely possible that the restore process may have missed some configuration file or some configuration option somewhere. Without more information, it's going to be impossible to tell. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Email classification
On 1/12/08, Felipe Neuwald wrote: > I'm thinking, if some user send one email to the mail list, then the > mail server reply one email to the user with one web page addres, and > then, the user classify the email (like office, home, study, etc) and > before the classification, the email is sent to the mail list. There is > some way of email classification like these? Or other ways of email > classification? Mailman does not provide any tools to do this sort of thing. You could have users put the classification in the subject line, or you could go through the process outlined in the Mailman FAQ Wizard whereby a moderator can modify a message before it is posted to the list, but as I recall that's a pretty lengthy and painful process. I'm not aware of any other options in this case. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
On 1/12/08, Dennis Putnam wrote: > Thanks for the reply. I have a guess as to what is wrong but I don't > know how to fix it in mailman. Here are the syslog entries for a > non-mailman email: > > Jan 12 10:55:10 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: 47CD185063: > from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=435, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Jan 12 10:55:16 dap002 postfix/smtp[21572]: 47CD185063: > to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25, > delay=5.8, delays=0.05/0.02/5.5/0.28, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok > ; id=20080112155515H0100n202se) > Jan 12 10:55:16 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: 47CD185063: removed > > Note the from hostname is 'home.bellsouth.net'. Now the mailman entries: Clearly, the hostname is "dap002" in some domain, because that's the name that is showing up in the "hostnme" field in the syslog file. > Jan 12 10:56:12 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2345]: D4F7D85061: > from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=10015, nrcpt=1 > (queue active) > Jan 12 10:56:12 dap002 postfix/smtpd[21582]: disconnect from >dap002[127.0.0.1] > Jan 12 10:56:16 dap002 postfix/smtp[21572]: D4F7D85061: > to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[207.115.11.17]:25, > delay=3.5, delays=0.03/0.01/3.3/0.19, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host > mail.bellsouth.net[207.115.11.17] said: 550 [PERMFAIL] bellsouth.net > requires valid sender domain (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Well, if the hostname really was home.bellsouth.net, that would map to IP address 216.77.188.41, but the reverse DNS for this IP address points back to dsl.bellsouth.net, which does map correctly back to the same IP address. So, I would not be surprised to see "home.bellsouth.net" changed to "dsl.bellsouth.net" in your outgoing mail. > Here the from hostname is 'dap002.bellsouth.net' instead of > 'home.bellsouth.net', that is not to say I know this is the problem > but its all I can see as different. Certainly, the name dap002.bellsouth.net does not exist in the DNS. If this is what your system is trying to use to identify itself to the outside world, that would be a problem. > Obviously mailman is somehow > overriding the normal from hostname and building its own. The name > 'dap002' is the LAN hostname but I cannot use that as the from > address to my ISP. My ISP has a special hostname for situations like > this that will properly resolve via DNS although it is a dummy name > for all DHCP assigned IPs. My mm_cfg.py has these 2 lines referring > to the hostname but obviously they are not what is being used in this > case: I suspect that the problem you're having may be a hostname or MTA misconfiguration issue, which Mailman is not involved in, and which cannot be fixed within Mailman. Try typing the command "hostname" at the command-line prompt on the machine. Also check your MTA configuration to make sure that this is not being over-ridden. > DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net' > DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'home.bellsouth.net' If you made these changes after the list was created, then they will not be reflected in the list configuration. I think that running "fix_url" will do that for you, but you'll have to check the FAQ Wizard or the archives of the list to be sure. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] deny members posts
On 1/11/08, Egidijus Serplis wrote: > Maybe anyone can explain to me how to configure mailman, that list members > can't post to this list. And enable non-members post to this list. In other > words - i want members of list only get messages, but not post. Thanks for > answers. I'm using mailman 2.1.8-0.FC4.1 Search the FAQ Wizard for "announce". -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Problem, mistyped address
On 1/11/08, Tony Molloy wrote: > Now I know the problem mail.csidmzs.ul.ie is incorrect. It should be > mail.csisdmz.ul.ie. I presume during one of the migrations I must have > mistyped something. But does anybody have any idea of where mailman is > picking up the mistyped address and how can I sort it out. Why not just go to the membership page and search for the incorrect domain name? That should pull up the member's address information, which you can then correct. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail Processing Problem?
On 1/9/08, Dennis Putnam wrote: > It seems that is not what it is using for the RCPT TO. RCPT TO is a recipient address. Look through the list of subscribers for your list and make sure that they are all correctly formed and valid domains. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin and mailman
On 1/9/08, Noah wrote: > many of our list moderators are receiving quite a bit of moderated > messages that is spam. Sometimes 20 to 40 or even more times a day. I > am wondering if there is a way to send all list mail through SA rules > and then trash the mail that is a specific score so it never even gets > moderated. Any clues on how to accomplish this? This kind of stuff needs to be done in the MTA, not Mailman. That said, search the FAQ Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for "spam". -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Slow or Missed mails
On 1/9/08, Abdul Javid wrote: > I noticed the mail processing is slow and sometimes they are notprocessed > at all Search the Mailman FAQ Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for words like "performance" and "troubleshoot". -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
Check the archives. HTML gets flattened to plain text and any fancy HTML stuff you've got goes away. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent from my iPhone On Jan 9, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Dennis Putnam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > At 07:17 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote: > > ??? > > Are you mixing in your replies with the quoted text here without > distinuguishing the quoted text? That is VERY confusing, and will get > your posts bit-canned by a lot of people, just fyi... > > > That's odd. The text appears quoted when I am creating the reply. It > must somehow be stripped when sent. I'll have to see what is going on. > Thanks for the heads up and my apologies to the list. > > > > > - -- > > Best regards, > > Charles Marcus > I.T. Director > Media Brokers International > 678.514.6200 x224 > 678.514.6299 fax > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) > > iD8DBQFHhVnv/fiWYqZ2tVQRAnH7AJoCpc162Hdn3pJwZDhxxI63/SAhNgCePT3o > o+D1VssS90ad2eqjwe+kO/E= > =3SIp > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Lists
On 1/7/08, Dennis Putnam wrote: > I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. Everything you mentioned seems > copacetic. I guess the next question is, can I set some kind of debug > that will give me some useful information in the logs? There is no "debug mode" with Mailman. What you get in the logs is what you get in the logs. You're free to go in and modify the source code to add more logging output, however. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't 'start' - but is working?
On 1/7/08, Charles Marcus wrote: > I'm trying to be patient, but NO ONE has a clue or idea where I might > look to solve this? > > I've asked here because I'm getting deafening silence on the Gentoo > forums too... Everything I've seen on this subject leads me to believe that the problems you're having are more to do with discrepancies between the portage system you're using, the startup scripts that they provide, kernel updates you've applied, etc None of the specific error messages or startup scripts you've reported on are actually coming from Mailman itself -- they're coming from Gentoo-specific tools, and we're not going to be able to help you with those. This would explain why you haven't seen any messages from anyone else that are in response to your posts -- all your questions seem to be very Gentoo-specific, and don't really have anything to do with Mailman itself. Our Mailman-specific troubleshooting processes are described in the FAQ Wizard, and if you search for "troubleshoot", you should turn them up. In particular, before we would be likely to be able to provide any assistance to you, we would need to know what is showing up in all your various Mailman and MTA logs, especially regarding the startup process. Make sure to also check out the other FAQ Wizard entries that are referenced at the top of FAQ 4.78. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribe_policy
On 1/7/08, Troy Knabe wrote: > I want to set a list so that users cannot self subscribe. Is there a > way to do that? I only see "confirm, require approval, or confirm and > approve". I would like "not allowed" What's wrong with requiring approval, and then just not approving any requests? -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to avoidmember-only restrictions
On 1/6/08, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote: > I suspect that with a Confirm subscription policy (which is the > minimum anyone should run) there really isn't too much to worry about > in that we can always end up requiring approval for subscriptions (or > moderate) associated with domains that show a history of allowing > spammers to send subscription requests. In my experience, just confirming subscriptions is not enough. There are a few spammers who will get through that test. So far, I have not yet seen much in the way of spammers who get through that filter as well as the moderation filter for new subscribers, but it's probably just a matter of time. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms toavoidmember-only restrictions
On 1/6/08, Sarah wrote: > Nor I. I have a double opt in for muy list. I get no spam what so ever. Double opt-in doesn't necessarily mean that you won't ever get spam, it just means that you apparently haven't gotten any spam yet. Moreover, the fact that you have not yet gotten any spam that has gotten through your filters and sent out via your mailing list is not necessarily due to the fact that you have a double opt-in list, although this is probably one factor to consider. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
On 1/6/08, Ivan Van Laningham wrote: > Plesk doesn't enter into this one. I'm using Plesk to create my lists, > and this doesn't happen to me or my subscribers. Plesk doesn't enter into this issue directly, but the fact that he's using Plesk means that he probably can't make any of the necessary changes himself, or at the very least he's going to have to do a lot more work to properly integrate that with Plesk -- I've worked on sites where they upgraded Mailman while keeping Plesk, and I can tell you that it was one of the worst nightmares I've ever seen. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Variables in welcome message are not replaced
On 1/7/08, Stefan Burkard wrote: > I posted the following about two weeks ago. Can anybody help me >with this one? Two things: 1. You're using Plesk. You need to talk to your provider about anything that might potentially be caused by Plesk or the customized version of Mailman that they have installed. The kinds of problems you're describing seem very likely to me to be a result of something that Plesk or your site administrator has done, and only your provider would be able to fix those problems. See also FAQ 6.15 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>. 2. You're using Mailman 2.1.5, and the current version of Mailman is 2.1.9 (which is what we're running on python.org), with 2.1.10 in early beta and set to be released soon. So, part of your problem could potentially be resolved by upgrading the version of Mailman you're running, but then this gets back to point #1 above. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
On 1/6/08, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote: > Isn't this the kind of thing that can be dealt with in the configure > script? I don't know the autoconf tools, but I thought that this was > the sort of problem it was designed to address. For mmdsr, there is no "configure" script. I wrote mmdsr to help me administer the mailing lists on python.org (and other sites), and it was useful enough that I decided that I would make it available to others. But it's a complete hack of a Bourne shell script that has evolved over time, and is not integrated in any way into the standard part of the Mailman installation process. This is an officially unsupported tool that is provided in a totally separate subdirectory, and if you choose to install and use it at your site, then you do so in the understanding of the basic nature of the tool and the fact that it is officially unsupported. > And I'd like to give another warning about standard Unix tools on OS X. > You can very easily end up with out of date man pages. When a system > is upgraded (using an "upgrade install" instead of a "clean" or "archive" > install) you will get new compressed man pages. For example, > /usr/share/man/man1/sort.1.gz But if you already have > /usr/share/man/man1/sort.1 you will end up with both files. man will > not detect that the .1 file is older than the .1.gz file. As a result So far as I know, we have no man pages for Mailman, and there are no man pages for mmdsr. This really isn't relevant to this discussion. > man sort > > may give you the man page for a version of sort that is no longer on > your system. I'd discovered this a few months ago (I'd long known that > many man pages didn't correspond to what I was using, but I hadn't > understood why), so when this happened with sort.1 as I read this > discussion, I at least knew what was happening. My old sort.1 page was > from August 2005. Then you've got a screwed up man(1) command, because it should be smart enough to look at date/time stamps of the source versus the output text files, and if the source is newer then it should re-generate the output text file. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to avoidmember-only restrictions
On 1/6/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Anyone else hit by this practice much? > > I've never seen it on lists with subscribe_policy of either Confirm or > Approve. I don't allow open subscribe. I've seen spammers (or bots) get subscribed to lists and try to spam, then unsubscribe. However, pretty much all the lists I run these days do default moderation for new subscribers, so that I can manually catch these sorts of things before I turn off their "moderation" bit. This applies to most of the mailman-* mailing lists on python.org, as well as others elsewhere. I also tend to run lists where subscription has to be approved by the list owner. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Include Mailman into my website...
On 1/6/08, Bernd wrote: > But I would like to subscribe an user without "subscribe_policy". If the > list-manager send an subscription the user should be subscribed > immediately without confirm/approve - option. Keep in mind that some of the techniques you're talking about using could be easily abused to create a system to generate and transmit spam to people. I'm not calling you a spammer. I'm just warning you that other people may not see the distinction here, and they may call you a spammer, because you're using tools and techniques that could be easily abused. That said, you should look at FAQ 3.53 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.053.htp>. > By the way, www.webfaction.com isn't listed on > http://wiki.list.org/display/COM/Mailman+hosting+services If you run WebFaction.com, feel free to add it to the list of sites providing Mailman hosting services. Otherwise, feel free to suggest to them that they add themselves to the list. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple repeated messages
On 1/4/08, Ramon Lopez wrote: > Al notifications that Mailman-bounces at domain.com > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sends to advise the > administrator of new subscriptions and other actions that need > moderation are received in batches of 30+. All have the same > date, time and ID. How can this be fixed if I'm using cpanel. There is nothing in Mailman that should act in this manner. Talk to your provider, and see FAQ 6.11 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs posted by non-member in mailman
On 1/4/08, Vicki Stanfield wrote:
> I am receiving all output from mailman cron jobs as requiring moderation
> ("Post by non-member to a members-only list"). I would guess that this is
> a file ownership issue, but I can't seem to resolve it. It happens with
> all my lists. Can someone help me find the solution?
This particular message just means that a user tried to post a
message to one of your lists, and they were not a known subscriber.
The list in question is set up to moderate posts from
non-subscribers, and so this message is generated.
As far as this goes, there's nothing wrong with this process. This
is exactly what Mailman is supposed to do under these kinds of
circumstances.
If you want to change this configuration to operate in a different
manner, you've got a wide variety of options available to you, which
I hope would be adequately explained in the documentation, the FAQ
Wizard, etc
--
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question on cron.in and the init.d scripts in rpm file
On 1/4/08, steve wrote: > The question is about the cron job. The documentation says to install > the contents of the supplied file into the cron job of the user mailman > > > % cd $prefix/cron > % crontab -u mailman crontab.in > Upon doing so, I got error messages from the cron job when it ran The installation instructions at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node41.html> are suitable for use with the source version of Mailman that you can download directly through our site. If you want to install a binary package version from some other provider, you should follow their installation instructions, because they may have made changes to where things are put, how things are put into place, etc -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about suggested site-wide list from install documentation
On 1/4/08, steve wrote: > What exactly is this mailman distribution group used for? Who should > really be a member of the group? If you search the FAQ Wizard for "site-wide", you should be led to FAQ 4.25 at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp>. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
On 1/3/08, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I will change this to make the relevant sort > > $SORT -n $SORT_FIELD > > with an appropriate definition of SORT_FIELD in the front with the > other definitions. That should work. I'll also make that change on my official version of the code on the server for python.org. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
On 1/3/08, Sarah wrote: > I never saw a log for bounces in the admin interface. I looked under > bounce processing and never saw it. If I get in to this situation > this usser is in where is hte log loacated so I may find it. I don't > run the ist from my own machine. it is run by a web service provider. The log is on the server. None of the Mailman logs are available via the web. You need to get your service provider to look at the logs on your behalf. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Un-subscribe notification
Probably as a result of monthly passwords being sent out at the first of the month. This is a typical issue for Mailman-hosted mailing lists and users who either change e-mail addresses often, or who frequently have overflowing mailboxes, or set up auto-responders that are not intelligent in how they generate their responses, etc -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent from my iPhone On Jan 3, 2008, at 2:15 PM, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tonya Robison wrote: > >> I received an email from [EMAIL PROTECTED] notifying me >> that a >> member has been unsubscribed. This person has not requested to be >> removed >> nor was notified to be removed. This happened about 3 weeks ago but >> with >> about 10 members in one day. How do I keep my members from being >> randomly >> removed? Thanks for your help! > > > I suspect these members were removed by automated bounce processing. > See Mailman's bounce log and the admin Bounce processing page. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org > > Security Policy: > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
That will break on some older systems. Since there is a mutual
incompatibility problem here, we need to give people an easy way to
select between the two options, depending on their OS.
--
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Steve Burling wrote:
>
>> Over the holiday, I took the opportunity to do a long-overdue
>> hardware and
>> OS upgrade of my home Mailman server. I'd been running Mac OS X
>> 10.3.9
>> (!), and moved to a slightly-less-antique box running Mac OS X
>> 10.5.1.
>>
>> Mostly, everything went smoothly, but there were a few minor
>> gotchas. One
>> was with mmdsr.sh, and I thought I might save some others the
>> headache of
>> figuring this out. I was getting errors from the 'sort' invocation
>> in the
>> line that produces the "Hourly Summary of Posts":
>>
>> $SED -e 's/^[A-Z][a-z][a-z] *[0-9]* //' -e 's/:.*$//' $TMPLOG |
>> $UNIQ -c |
>> $SORT -n +1 | $AWK '{ printf( "%8d %02d:00-%02d:59\n", $1, $2,
>> $2 ) }' >>
>> $TMP
>>
>> It turns out that according to:
>>
>> <http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Darwin/RN-Unix03Conformance/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004772-DontLinkElementID_5
>>
>> >
>>
>> 'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead
>> needint the
>> form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'. Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are
>> 1-based rather than 0-based. So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line
>> above
>> becomes, instead,
>>
>> $SORT -n -k 2
>>
>> Hope this saves someone some head scratching...
>
>
> Thanks for the report.
>
> I observed the same problem when I moved my lists from an FC2 box to a
> CentOS 5 box, but neglected to report it.
>
> I have now added mmdsr version 0.0.17 to
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=1123383&group_id=103
>
> >
> which fixes this and also includes a change to process rotated logs.
> This version will be distributed with Mailman 2.1.10.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hint: mmdsr.sh and Mac OS X Leopard
There are older versions of sort that don't accept the Gnu-specific
syntax, while of course there are other (gnu) versions that don't
support the older syntax. There's not much I can do to fix that -- the
person installing the code needs to make changes as appropriate for
their platform.
That's part of why I pull all the definitions for the binaries out
into the section at the top, so that you can provide alternate paths
to the appropriate programs.
That said, I will see if I can make some minor changes to the code so
that this kind of thing is more obvious and easier to take the
alternative version.
--
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Steve Burling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Over the holiday, I took the opportunity to do a long-overdue
> hardware and
> OS upgrade of my home Mailman server. I'd been running Mac OS X
> 10.3.9
> (!), and moved to a slightly-less-antique box running Mac OS X 10.5.1.
>
> Mostly, everything went smoothly, but there were a few minor
> gotchas. One
> was with mmdsr.sh, and I thought I might save some others the
> headache of
> figuring this out. I was getting errors from the 'sort' invocation
> in the
> line that produces the "Hourly Summary of Posts":
>
> $SED -e 's/^[A-Z][a-z][a-z] *[0-9]* //' -e 's/:.*$//' $TMPLOG |
> $UNIQ -c |
> $SORT -n +1 | $AWK '{ printf( "%8d %02d:00-%02d:59\n", $1, $2,
> $2 ) }' >>
> $TMP
>
> It turns out that according to:
>
> <http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Darwin/RN-Unix03Conformance/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004772-DontLinkElementID_5
>
> >
>
> 'sort' no longer supports the form 'sort +POS1 -POS2', instead
> needint the
> form 'sort -k POS1,POS2'. Of course, In that form POS1 and POS2 are
> 1-based rather than 0-based. So the 'sort' part of mmdsr.sh line
> above
> becomes, instead,
>
> $SORT -n -k 2
>
> Hope this saves someone some head scratching...
>
> --
> Steve Burling
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> University of Michigan, ICPSRVoice: +1 734
> 615.3779
> 330 Packard Street FAX: +1 734
> 647.8700
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910
> --
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> Unsubscribe:
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Re: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members in sub lists after every 10 minutes
On 1/2/08, Vinita Aggarwal wrote: > I have checked, no one has info and no cron exists on my machine. I have > checked at OS level also Without cron or some function like that, you're hosed. None of the automated regular Mailman tasks will be performed, and that's going to be a real problem. > Please advice, is there any way that I can make these cross posts updated > automatically. There is nothing inside of Mailman that can help you in this regard. You need OS-level features, like cron. Without that, you're hosed. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] refresh my cross post list with updated members in sub lists after every 10 minutes
On 1/2/08, Vinita Aggarwal wrote: > Please advise how to check that and if someone has deleted that cron then > how to make that. That depends on your OS. I suggest you identify what OS and version you're using, and then make use of their support mechanisms to answer any OS-specific questions you may have. > I am a new person in this team and seems that someone who had access to my > machine has troubled it. That's possible, so you should first ask the other people on your team if anyone has messed with your cron jobs. -- Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
