Re: [Mailman-Users] Advantages

2014-12-03 Thread Gary Algier

On 12/03/14 03:09, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

r...@rexgoode.com writes:

  > I can think of a lot of advantages myself, but I'm wondering if anyone
  > has seen a good list somewhere.

There may be one on the wiki somewhere.

Besides the points Barry made, I would add:

1.  Easier personal filtering.  Geeks can use the List-* headers,
 non-geeks the Subject tags.

2.  Common spam filtering (including vacation messages :-).

3.  Common attachment filtering and storage.

4.  Vacation functionality (for those who are willing to log in and
 set no-mail).

5.  Dupe filtering (for those who are willing to log in and set
 not-me-too).

6.  Advanced distribution and archive functionality (coming in Mailman 3).

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I would add that mailing lists can hide all the members email addresses.

If someone is using Outlook and has it capturing email addresses of senders 
and other recipients in a "Suggested Contacts" address book and then they get 
hit by some malware that harvests these addresses, they will get all the 
individual list members and they can start sending Spam to these people.


If a mailing list is used, only senders and the list address appear.  You can 
even hide the sender behind the list keeping everyone anonymous.  The list can 
better deal with any Spam than what most individuals can.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Executive summary of DMARC issues

2014-05-15 Thread Gary Algier

On 05/15/14 11:15, Larry Finch wrote:


On May 15, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Gary Algier  wrote:


On 05/14/14 23:47, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

I then sent an email to the list and to my work sendmail address.  It was 
delivered to both work addresses and the iCloud address.

Gmail put it in my Spam folder with the warning:
---
Be careful with this message. Our systems couldn't verify that this message was 
really sent by yahoo.com. You might want to avoid clicking links or replying 
with personal information.
---
There is also a link to their "Why messages are marked as Spam" page.

On Yahoo I found the bounce in my Spam folder with the following:
---
This is an automated message from the Extensible Content Security
at host wg.ulticom.com.

The message returned below could not be delivered to its intended
destinations.


It seems that in the case of a simple Exchange distribution list, the Yahoo 
members will fail (into their Spam folder!), some others may fail depending 
upon their service's SPF fussiness, and others may have to root around in their 
Spam folders for the content.



On the lists that I manage on listserv I’ve discovered that many ISPs honor Yahoo 
and AOL’s p=reject, and will not even put the message in the spam folder. Among 
them are: Comcast, SBCGlobal, AT&T, AOL, Rogers, Earthlink, Hotmail and a few 
others I don’t recall. So essentially half of my list members will not get posts 
from Yahoo or AOL.

best regards,
Larry

--
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Apparently, simple Exchange distribution lists do not rewrite headers or touch 
the body so DKIM passes.  However, the distribution lists also do not change 
the envelope sender so the SPF fails.  In order to get through DKIM, the 
internal author address ("From: ") and a bunch of other headers must stay the 
same, which Exchange does.  Most mailing list software rewrites something, 
which makes DKIM fail.  However, the mailing list software will use an 
envelope address from the list so SPF should not fail.


Summary:
Can't use Exchange distribution lists: SPF will fail.
Can't use mailing list software without changing the author, etc.: DKIM will 
fail.

Time for sendmail aliases?  Or perhaps, SPF will fail?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Executive summary of DMARC issues

2014-05-15 Thread Gary Algier

On 05/14/14 23:47, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Peter Shute writes:

  > When MS365 forwards the mails sent to the distribution list, should
  > that make the DMARC authentication fail? I thought that only
  > happened if you made changes like adding a prefix to the subject
  > line like Mailman does.

If it forwards verbatim *and* the sending domain signs the mail with
DKIM (the common case), DMARC validation will succeed.  Without DKIM,
DMARC validation is guaranteed to fail.  However, even in the sender
uses DKIM, *any* change *whatsoever* to the body will cause validation
to fail, and there are several changes to the header that could cause
it to fail.  Furthermore, which parts of the header are protected by
the DKIM signature are determined by the sender, not by DMARC AFAIK.

If distribution lists are pure forwards, MS365 will be OK.  But I find
it hard to believe that that level of functionality is popular with
users -- there's a reason why all popular MLMs implement subject
prefixes, body headers and body footers, and it isn't "because it's
the Microsoft way".



I ran some tests this morning.  I created an Exchange distribution list here 
and added myself five ways on the list:

1. On our Exchange server (how I receive internal emails)
2. On a local Linux server running sendmail and dovecot (how I receive "real 
mail")

3. A Yahoo address.
4. A Gmail address.
5. An iCloud address.

I then sent an email to the list and to my work sendmail address.  It was 
delivered to both work addresses and the iCloud address.


Gmail put it in my Spam folder with the warning:
---
Be careful with this message. Our systems couldn't verify that this message 
was really sent by yahoo.com. You might want to avoid clicking links or 
replying with personal information.

---
There is also a link to their "Why messages are marked as Spam" page.

On Yahoo I found the bounce in my Spam folder with the following:
---
This is an automated message from the Extensible Content Security
at host wg.ulticom.com.

The message returned below could not be delivered to its intended
destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to .

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete
your own text from the message returned below.

Reason:
: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[98.138.112.34] said: 554
5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons.  See
http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html (in reply to end of
DATA command)
---
The server wg.ulticom.com is our WatchGuard Anti-Spam appliance.  It had no 
trouble accepting it when it came in the first time (it does not do DMARC 
checks), but when it tried to delivery the email to Yahoo, they rejected it. 
Of course, the reject went to Yahoo anyway, but with a MAILER-DAEMON sender 
address.


I saved the two copies from my sendmail address and compared them:
% h=$(sed -n -e 'y/:/|/' -e '/DKIM-Signature|/s/.* h=\([^;]*\).*/\1/p' 
direct.eml)
% diff -s -u <(egrep -i "^($h):" direct.eml) <(egrep -i "^($h)" list.eml)
Files /dev/fd/4 and /dev/fd/5 are identical
% diff -s -u <(sed '1,/^$/d' direct.eml) <(sed '1,/^$/d' list.eml)
Files /dev/fd/4 and /dev/fd/5 are identical

The first diff compares only the headers in the DKIM Signature.
The second diff compares the body.
The DKIM checks seem to be good.  So, it seems that nothing has changed in the 
content or checked header.  It must be SPf.


% dig +short TXT _spf.mail.yahoo.com
"v=spf1 ptr:yahoo.com ptr:yahoo.net ip4:206.108.40.0/27 ip4:199.16.139.0/26 
?all"

It seems that in the case of a simple Exchange distribution list, the Yahoo 
members will fail (into their Spam folder!), some others may fail depending 
upon their service's SPF fussiness, and others may have to root around in 
their Spam folders for the content.


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[Mailman-Users] Executive summary of DMARC issues

2014-05-14 Thread Gary Algier

Hello,

I have been following the discussion of the DMARC issues and Mailman's 
attempts to live with it.  I was wondering if anyone has an "Executive 
Summary" of the DMARC issue in a general sense.


The information on the wiki talks about the impact on Mailman, but I need a 
generic explanation that can be presented to our CFO.  Our management wants to 
move our email from an in-house Exchange environment (with Mailman on the side 
for mailing lists) to a totally MS365 solution.  We have been told that 
everything we do with Mailman can be done with Exchange distribution lists, 
etc.  I know all the reasons this is really a poor statement, but distribution 
lists have the same DMARC problem.


I created a test distribution list here.  I created local contacts that 
forward to my personal gmail.com and icloud.com addresses.  I added these and 
my work address to the list.  Email from gmail and icloud works fine, however 
the author address ("From:") carries the original address. When I sent an 
email from my yahoo.com account, it was not delivered to gmail.  I never saw a 
bounce, though, so I don't know who, if anyone, gets notified.


I am hoping that I can make this issue plain at an executive level so we can 
get them to stay with a Mailman solution as we "go to the cloud".


Of course if someone says that the current MS365 implementation has addressed 
this, then that's a different (unfortunate) story.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] building a new mailman server

2014-03-27 Thread Gary Algier

On 03/27/14 04:26, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Sajan Parikh writes:

  > sendmail is still widely used, and if I were you, I'd just stick with
  > what works unless you have you a particular need that sendmail wasn't
  > filling.

+1 with caveat:

Exim and Postfix both have recipes for working with Mailman 3.  It
seems likely to me that it "won't be hard" to get Mailman 3 and
Sendmail to work and play well together -- but nobody has done it yet.



I have it working fine.  I recently replaced a very old implementation
of sendmail and Mailman on Solaris with a new one on CentOS 6.  When I
did so, I used the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD mechanism to automatically process
the aliases.  See: 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html


In mm_cfg.py:
MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /etc/mail/import-mailman-aliases'
/etc/mail/import-mailman-aliases contains:
#! /bin/sh
/bin/cp /etc/mailman/aliases /etc/mail/mailman.aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases
In /etc/sudoers.d/mailman:
Cmnd_Alias IMPORT_MAILMAN_ALIASES = /etc/mail/import-mailman-aliases
apache ALL= NOPASSWD: IMPORT_MAILMAN_ALIASES
mailman ALL= NOPASSWD: IMPORT_MAILMAN_ALIASES
Defaults!IMPORT_MAILMAN_ALIASES !requiretty
In the sendmail.mc file I changed:
define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases')dnl
to:
define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases,/etc/mail/mailman.aliases')dnl
so that the Mailman aliases would be in a separate file.

Warning: You need to have Mailman 2.1.15 or better (or patch it).
See this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266408.
A fix is here: 
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1291

(Thanks to Mark Sapiro)

I stayed with sendmail because I am using LDAP for aliases and routing and I 
did not want to figure out how to do it with Postfix.  My one exposure to 
Postfix was a disaster trying to fix the email services on our marketing 
department's web server at a hosting provider that did not support sendmail. 
Perhaps with time, I could have made it work for our mail server, but the 
duckling syndrome may have set in (yes, I still use vi and sometimes ed).


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Why does iOS's Safari log out the moderator web page?

2014-02-05 Thread Gary Algier

On 02/05/14 16:12, Peter Shute wrote:

On 6 Feb 2014, at 5:22 am, "Peter Shute"  wrote:


My experience with Firefox mostly on various Linux, Mac and Windows
platforms is that it does not always offer to save passwords,
particularly those from financial institution websites, but it does
always offer to save Mailman passwords.
This can because the web sites have a setting on the form: autocomplete="off". 
 I know Safari honors this.  I don't think Mailman uses this.




Firefox offers to save the passwords to the same pages on a PC. I guess that 
means it's totally an iOS problem.


It's interesting though that none of the other iOS apps I've tried offer to 
save it either - Atomic Lite, Chrome, Dolphin and Opera. Unless each of these 
uses the same faulty API to determine whether to offer to save the password or 
not, there must be something different about the mailman page that's fooling 
them. Maybe the lack of a username field?

Can anyone confirm whether they've had the same experience? It's happening for 
me on two different servers, so I'm assuming it's universal.



I use a password management plugin with Firefox (and IE8) and it does not 
handle the Mailman code well.  I assumed it was because of the lack of a user 
field.  I had the same problem when managing our VoIP PBX that only had a 
password field without a user name.  When a recent upgrade included a user 
name field my problems went away.



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[Mailman-Users] POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD run once?

2014-01-02 Thread Gary Algier

Hi,

I just installed a new Mailman (2.1.12) server on Centos 6.4.  I used the 
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD mechanism to automatically process the aliases even though I 
am using Sendmail (8.14.4).   I have it invoking:

/usr/bin/sudo /etc/mail/import-mailman-aliases
which runs:
/bin/cp /etc/mailman/aliases /etc/mail/mailman.aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases
(This idea came from: 
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Integrating+Mailman+with+Sendmail+-+Method+2)


This works, but I noticed that it invokes newalias once for each Mailman list. 
 This seems to be because genaliases runs the command once with one list, 
then again with two lists, again with three, etc. until all the lists are 
processed.


I am concerned that if I add a new list to Mailman just as email is coming in 
then it could be rejected because many of the aliases will not exist for a 
short time.


Does anyone know of a way to only do the newalias command when the supplied 
file is complete?  Or can the genaliases mechanism build the whole file before 
calling the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD just once at the end?



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Re: [Mailman-Users] The Mysterious Disappearing Disk Space (fwd)

2008-11-19 Thread Gary Algier
s should
be the same, within a few k.  If different, then the used space is not
reflected in any directory.

If this is the case, you may be able to find out which process has the
open, unlinked file using "lsof".  Run it as "lsof -s -p PID" once for
each Mailman process.  The offender should report open files that
either it can't resolve the name or it will show a name that does
not exist.  The flag "-s" tells it to report the size.  This may help
identify a large file.  The ability of lsof to report the name of
open files may very by OS, however.

Rereading the man page for lsof, I just noticed the "+L" option.
Using "+aL1" (that is plus aye ell one) causes it to select unlinked
open files.  Perhaps this will help.

I hope this will help ID which process, at least.  Perhaps that will
give clues.



I spent a few hours mucking around with the pickles trying to figure what 
broke, and finally gave up due to screaming users: I rebuilt.  The new 
build acts *just* like the last one (the reason for the delay in answering 
your kind reply was to see if the rebuild would get rid of this).  Ive 
lost about a gig over 24 hours, and I have NO idea where its going.  I 
stopped the job while writing this paragraph just to double check, and 
yes, I get it all back when the job is terminated.  Very odd indeed.


Im not comfy with debuggers, so Im at the mercy of others.

Have I missed any log files?  Is there somewhere specific I should be 
looking?  Is there some way to (easily) increase logging details to try 
and track this down?


The answers to this and other important questions await.  On the next 
episode of MailSoap. 
 
Seriously though, I appreciate your response, and the time spent on this.


All the best,

//Alif




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question

2004-04-08 Thread Gary Algier
Jeff Kopp wrote:
I have a question about the Mailman message archives. Is there a patch or
something that will allow users the ability to search the message archives
on the Web?
Look here:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103
If you go to:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/
and follow the links to Tracker/Patches you will find a lot of other feature 
patches.  I searched for "htdig" to find this one.

Thanks,
Jeff Kopp
St. Louis, MO
Your welcome.

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[Mailman-Users] Command line interface to "mod" and "nomail" bits?

2004-04-06 Thread Gary Algier
Is there a command line interface to get and set the per-user bits?

In particular, I need to access the "Mod" and "Nomail" bits.

I use sync_members to syncronize some lists with our LDAP server
and I don't want to have to set these bits via a browser after
the fact.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] TrendMicro Interscan Virus Wall for Linux

2001-10-17 Thread Gary Algier

We're using Trend Micro Viruswall just fine.  What I did was to
have Viruswall get the email first and pass it to the real sendmail
that is running on port 2525.  This way, Viruswall does nothing
but scan the emails.  Sendmail does all the email work.  Mailman
works just fine.

BTW: I have yet another system (in our DMZ) that actually receives
the emails from outside (MX points to the external system).  I
do this because Viruswall does not have all the proper anti-relay
preventions, etc. that I wanted.  This email relay system just
does the anti-relay checks then forwards everything to an
internal system with Viruswall and the "real" sendmail.

Vania Lolham wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> OS RH7.1
> Mailman 2.0.6-1u70_1cl.i386.rpm
> 
> After fiddling with everything in Mailman and reading every
> python scripts and checking for typo and so on,
> I found no problem at all with the mailman, In fact the
> python source files are written so cool and informative.
> Now to the problem;
> All the subscription from internal network for internal
> users were accepted
> All the subscription from outside network for outside users
> were rejected.
> Sendmail Mail log was telling me error 554 mail relay
> rejected.
> All that is cool I can live with it,
> After getting deep involved in the way wrapper, post and
> mailcmd are treating the package I was convinced that there
> isn't any problem with any of them.
> Last think I could think of was to disable the Interscan
> VirusWall from (Trend Micro).
> This time everything worked well.
> No is there anyone out there using Interscan?
> I called tech Trend Micro support and so far there is no
> work around.
> Do you know of any?
> As far as I can comprehend; when Interscan is active, it
> disable the domaintable, access.db, trusted-users.db,
> IP_allow and mailertable.db
> and instead uses it's own intscan.ini file to recognise
> domains, mailertable, trusted-users and ip_allow.
> I don't see anywhere talking about access.
> In the access file there are hosts that are allowed to
> RELAY.
> 
> okay, end of my gasbagging :))
> 
> Please let me know if there is other approach.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Vania
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 


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A self-addressed envelope would be addressed "envelope."


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