[Mailman-Users] Fwd: Re: Mailing list membership.
Dear friends of Mailman, in the IETF discussion list we have a discussion about the bounces, that are created based on the DMARC processing. I know, from a discussion in this mailman list, that mailman follow strong the RFC 2821 (SMTP) and reject this DMARC nonsense. I send you my answer to Theodore and Khaled in the IETF discussion list for verify. I have not so much experience with that. But i know from many mailman lists that they have always this bounce-errors. The consequence should be, that the members in the list should change her mailbox servers to avoid this "bounce errors", based on DMARC processing, or not? For me, i don't like any form of work arounds. We need a clear base. And this can only be the standard RFCs. What you think about? many greetings, willi Forwarded Message Subject: Re: Mailing list membership. Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 16:29:01 -0300 From: willi uebelherr To: IETF discussion Dear Theodore, many thanks for your explanation to the RFC 2821 (SMTP). The answer from Khaled i have included, because it goes to me as a private message. Maybe, based on my bad english, i feel some confusion with the terms. 1) Khaled, like i and you, is member of the IETF discussion list. This means, he receive all emails that are distributed over the list. 2) Khaled, like i and you, use the maillist server mailman from IETF discussion list to distribute his messages to all members in the list. 3) The IETF discussion list don't follow the DMARC processing. This means, it act only outside. 4) Khaled, like i and you, use a mail box server system as the interconnection point to the list. Khaled use hotmail, you use mit.edu, i use riseup.net. This means, the actors are the mailbox servers with the mailman maillist server IETF discuss in both direction. I understand and agree absolutly, that the maillist server never change the From-line in the header. He create the Return-Path-line and/or Error-To-line for error response from the receiver mailbox server system. The bounce-information. The mailman maillist server use bounce-counters for every member and some limits for this bounce-counter. If the limit exceeds, and the admin-group do nothing, then the maillist server mailman disable the delivery. It is not an unsubscription. The admin-group have to follow the incremental increase of the bounce-counters to understand, what is the background. Maybe, the mailbox is full, or don't exist or is the result of this stupid DMARC processing. The DMARC processing is defined in the DNS info. But we can ignore it, or not? The admin-group can inform the member to change her mailbox server to "avoid more errors" like Khaled wrote. The IETF discussion admin-group can only inform about the error sources. The members have to change her mailbox servers, or not? Based on that process, we can clean all this nonsense in our IETF lists environment and work strong based on the RFC 2821, like mailman do it. What do you think about? many greetings, willi On 01/03/2017 07:50, Khaled Omar wrote: Hi Willi, Mailman never change the "From"-header. Therefore, the From-Header always points to the author of the email. What you think, is that the correct, compatible way? I think, yes. Such case is out of our hands, other e-mail service providers are welcome to be used just if this will add a value and avoid more errors. Best Regards, Khaled On 01/03/2017 01:49, Theodore Ts'o wrote: On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 05:29:24PM -0300, willi uebelherr wrote: related to the problem, what Khaled explained, what is your proposal? What are your "compatible with internet mailing lists" mail systems? RFC 2821, Simple Mail Transfer Protocol, section 3.10.2 "To expand a list, the recipient mailer replaces the pseudo-mailbox address in the envelope with all of the expanded addresses. The return address in the envelope is changed so that all error messages generated by the final deliveries will be returned to a list administrator, not to the message originator, who generally has no control over the contents of the list and will typically find error messages annoying." This is the SMTP Envelope From field. The FROM field is not changed, but the SMTP return address is changed, so that bounces go to the mailing list administrator as opposed to the person who sends mail to the mailing list. Unfortunately, if you are using a system whose domain requests that all recipients enforce DMARC alignment, this specifically instructs recipients to bounce mail if the SMTP Envelope return address doesn't match the FROM field in the header. This means that they won't see mailing list mail as defined by the IETF Standards Track RFC 2821, which specifically says that is acceptable (and in fact a good thing) to change the SMTP envelope return address so that bounces (caused by
Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop bounces emails
On 21/11/2016 23:26, Leon wrote: Hi, everyone. Subscribers in mailing list always get bounces emails like "the results of your email commands". How do I stop mailman sending out them? Thank you. Dear Leon, i am not a expert. But "bounced mail" are mails, that can't transmit to the receiver. But in your example, the receiver take the mails. Mostly, with my experience, this answers comes from mails that are send also to lists and groups, where the sender of the mail is not subscribed. But this is a problem of the sender (reponse to all) and not of mailman. I am also waiting for an answer of our experts. many greetings, willi -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] stopping cross posting?
Dear friends, this discussion is mostly negative oriented. I will add a positive consideration. The cross-posting is very important to open the spaces, to connect different areas. For the list server is not a big problem. If senders are not subscribed, they blocked. Simple. The sender get this information. She/he can check the receiver list the next time. We can make a short information in the list. Not as supervision, but as help. many greetings, willi Asuncion, Paraguay 2016-10-10 22:56 GMT-03:00 Mark Sapiro : > On 10/10/2016 05:44 PM, Adam Morris wrote: >> >> Not sure if I'm using the correct terminology. > > > You are. > > >> People send messages to a list I run as well as other lists that I have >> nothing to do with. >> >> >> When people reply to the message sent to other lists the replies go to >> my list as well as the list they replied to. > > > If the person replying does a reply-all and doesn't remove the lists of > which she is not a member from the recipients. > > >> Is there a way to stop this apart from asking people to only send the >> message to one list at a time? > > > Attempting to train your list members is futile[1]. What you can do is > set Privacy options... -> Recipient filters -> max_num_recipients to 2. > This will cause any post with 2 or more direct (To: and Cc:) recipients > to be held and then you can reject those posts. Whether this is more or > less burdensome than rejecting the non-member replies from the > cross-posted lists is something only you can decide. > > Also this creates another problem. If, as we strongly recommend, your > list doesn't munge Reply-To:, and your user's MUAs don't offer a > reply-list option, they probably want to reply-all to list posts which > will cause their replies to be held too. > > Bottom line: I feel your pain, but I don't have a satisfactory solution. > > [1] My experience with lists whose members are not email wonks is that > attempts to alter member's behavior only result in their thinking you're > a jerk and don't modify their behavior. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/willi.uebelherr%40gmail.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] problems linking to successive chunks of addresses in admin user search
2016-09-28 19:12 GMT-04:00 Mark Sapiro : > ,,, > You could, but it isn't necessary. Dear i follow your discussion with Christopher. Your short answer " it isn't necessary". Can you explain this? greetings, willi Asuncion, Paraguay -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
Dear Mark, i am so happy about your strong cooperation. it is fantastic. Here i will show you some of the header. The mailman version is not included. And you see, that the administrators of this list don´t understand the difference from ...-request and ...-bounces. Reply-To: j...@punkcast.com Sender: joly@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <56fcb7a8.3080...@apc.org> References: <56fcb7a8.3080...@apc.org> From: Joly MacFie Errors-to: bestbits-ow...@lists.bestbits.net Sender: bestbits-requ...@lists.bestbits.net List-Id: In other emails it is listed similar. Therefore, i tried with the Field List-Id. In my filter i use now two filter criteria in OR relation. Sender or List-Id. Never i found a doubled entry List-Id. And now it is stable working. After some time, i will try List-Id alone. I think, it is better then both. And yes, Errors-to is the same. But i like more List-Id. many, many thanks for your time, work and friendly helping. with greetings, willi St. Elena de uairen, Venezuela Am 30.03.2016 um 09:44 schrieb Mark Sapiro: On 3/30/16 12:46 AM, willi uebelherr wrote: But the answer to the first question is not correct. I have some people in different mailman maillists with 2 Sender fields. And because my mail client Thunderbird use the first then the filter don´t work. I had to extend the filterlist with the "Sender" field. In Mailman 2.1.14 and newer, there is an include_sender_header setting on each list's General Options page. If that is Yes, Mailman will remove all Sender: headers from the incoming mail and add its own. If it is No, Mailman doesn't remove or add Sender: headers. Pre 2.1.14 Mailman always did removal and addition. Maybe, i can also use the field "List-Id". It can work for the same. And in all this mails with the double Sender field i see only one List-Id fields. There is also an Errors-To: header and there should always be just Mailman's. Never i have checked other mails for 2 Sender fields. I can do it, if it would helpful for you. And if you need the mailman version, i will look for. If Mailman is adding a Sender: header without first removing any existing ones, I would like to see all the headers from such a message as sent by Mailman. If i should make a bug report, tell me. And, because it is the first time for me, give me some tips how i should do it. Bugs in MM 2.1 should be reported at <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+filebug>, but first, just send me or post here the full message headers from the message as sent by Mailman. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
Dear Mark and Stephan and friends, yes, i absolutly trust you that you work in relation to the RFC´s definition. And, it is truth, that i am not an expert in the email transport mechanism. My second question was more to understand the background. And i am very thankful for the answer from Mark. But the answer to the first question is not correct. I have some people in different mailman maillists with 2 Sender fields. And because my mail client Thunderbird use the first then the filter don´t work. I had to extend the filterlist with the "Sender" field. Maybe, i can also use the field "List-Id". It can work for the same. And in all this mails with the double Sender field i see only one List-Id fields. Never i have checked other mails for 2 Sender fields. I can do it, if it would helpful for you. And if you need the mailman version, i will look for. In this moment, i don´t know, how i can search with Thunderbird for 2 Sender fields. But this is a totally other question. If i should make a bug report, tell me. And, because it is the first time for me, give me some tips how i should do it. many greetings, willi St. Elena de Uairen, Venezuela Am 29.03.2016 um 13:28 schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull: Mark Sapiro writes: > Some yes and some no. As Mark knows, the general rule is that with a few deliberate, documented, optional cases Mailman tries to strictly respect RFC constraints for fields defined in an RFC. We're pretty good about that; if you're not cranky RFC pedant like me, don't bother checking. But if you notice something that doesn't work as the RFCs specify, consider it a bug and notify us (especially in Mailman 3!) (Do check that it's not an optional behavior -- Reply-To munging and From munging are non-conforming but options have been provided because there is "sufficient reason" for doing so. If you don't like it, you'll have to take it up with the list owner, not with us.) > Depending on list settings, a new, merged, Reply-To: or Cc: will be > created and the original replaced, Also From may be munged to disable DMARC, depending on list settings and possibly a DNS check for DMARC policy. > but headers like X-BeenThere: X-Mailman-Version:, etc., will just > be added. BTW, in my (recent) experience Mailman 2 does not handle List-Post and List-ID correctly. It replaces them, but List-Post should be left alone, and a new List-ID field should be added when there is already one, and if the existing List-ID is not a parent list, then it should be removed. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/217 for Mailman 3. @Mark: I don't think this is worth fixing for Mailman 2, but if you want to have it fixed, or just want an issue to document the lack of conformance that you can close, let me know and I'll file one. If you want help on a fix, I'll be happy to work with you (but not until late April). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/willi.uebelherr%40gmail.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] header field: Sender
Dear friends, one question. If the Sender-field exist and mailman create a new Sender-field-line, then he have to delete the old one, or not? And maybe, this is true also for all other header fields, what mailman create? many greetings, willi St. Elena de Uairen, Venezuela -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Option: Mail delivery - disabled
Dear friends, on the mailman maillist from WSF discuss the option: "Mail delivery" was changed from enabled to disabled without my activity. Do you know about some conditions, that that can be? Here this version entry in the header i found: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 I am shure, that the admin people never will do it. Maybe, it is a side effect from other configuration or administration activities? PS: Jai Sen and Subbu Sastry are the admins of the WSF discuss list. Orsan Senalp is the admin of the NetworkedLabour discuss list. many thanks and greetings, willi St. Elena, Venezuela -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Internet Message Format: Identification Fields
Dear William and Mark and all, many thanks for your answer. I understand, that never you want to make any special action for a specific task for Gmail. But now, for me it is not a question of the specific "duplicate suppression" from google-mail. it is a more general debate about the principles of "Internet Message Format". i have have now many alternatives. 1) the proposal from Richard Damon 2) a second account on gmail 3) a non-gmail account like gmx (i have) or a new riseup account Many thanks for your proposals. But, please, let us discuss more about the principles. I don't analyse the sources from mailman and thunderbird to know on what points they use the message-id for what process. What header-fields use thunderbird for thread-ordering? Maybe, on this list read some people from the thunderbird developer group or from other mailtools to explain the needs. The message-id should be a unique id for a mail. The mail is a combination of the header and body. This two parts together build the specific mail. If you change one part, you create a new mail. Following of that, if mailman change the subject line or append a footer, it is a new mail and need a new message-id. Consequently, we can say, if the header of a mail is extended on his way from one client to the other client, an all chainpoints there are creating a new mail. Because they axtend the header with header fields for the in/out nodes. This is the result of the logic of the RFC 5322. I know, in our time we have a confuse situation. Many things from our history overlaped this logic. And the people for one single project are not part of the whole project, the mail processing in the internet. They work seperated and sometimes against. We can see, that hotmail create a wrong message-id in relation to RFC 5322. But is the syntactical structure important? I think no. Only the uniqueness, the singularity, is important. In my thinking i prefer that mailman can be a reference implementation for maillist-server. Because in principial, only a Open Source project can can fulfill this function. But this makes it necessary to reflect our own doing and to discuss the process algorithms on a open and free base. Committed only the basic fundamentals. And what i read from Mark i see, that he act in a personal defense against Gmail. And that is not good. I had the same positiob before. But now, i changed my thinking. I see, that the argumentation from bkennely is correct. And this is independent from, that he work for Google Gmail. mant thanks and many greetings, willi Panama City Am 06/23/2014 07:11 p.m., schrieb William Bagwell: On Monday 23 June 2014, Mark Sapiro wrote: Your choice is clear to me. If you don't like the way Gmail handles your list posts, subscribe and post from a non-gmail address. Mark, off topic for *this* list though you might want to add this to the FAQ? willi, some web hosting servers will allow customers to post outgoing mail with any address you own. Even if it does not match the domain you have hosted with them. My ISP (.tds) address has been outsourced to Gmail for about five years. When this message returns to me Gmail will not discared it as a duplicate since they did not see it out bound. Only good solution I have found though it does cost $5 per month for hosting. Which I would have anyway just for my web site... -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Internet Message Format: Identification Fields
Dear friends, following the RFC 5322 all identification fields are optional. But they SHOULD have it. Of course, sometimes we need it. RFC 5322: Internet Message Format http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322 We have min 3 fields: message-id in-reply-to references With that, we can create all ordering of mails based on a thread. I think, it would be never a problem to use a new (little changed) message-id, because if the listserver send the mail, he changed it. And consequently, he create a new message-id (but for himself and for tracking it can be a modification of the original message-id). In the discussion on this list Mark and other people args, this would lead to a big confusion for the different mail clients. Is that true? I don't have the necessary oversight. But i think, you have it. The easest way would be a configuratin point for the user to decide, that his sended mail get a new message-id, if the listserver changed it when he send the mail. And this he always do it. many greetings, willi Panama City -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] [discuss] configuration of the maillist server from 1net.org
Dear friends, now i think, it is clear. The feature "duplicate suppression" is a fix mechanism. I will wait for the answers of the people from the mailman-users list, what the say about. But in Gmail with a user configuration never i can resolve the problem. The mailman server never want to support the change of message-id. And as a user never i can do it. Only with a second user subscribing. My next alternative is to use GMX in Germany or any other non-non-neutral mailserver. I ordered the mails in inverse chronical order. many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Re: Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Von: bkennelly via Gmail Help Forum No, you cannot turn off duplicate suppression. Gmail follows the RFCs and treats the Message-ID as globally unique for a particular version of the message. According to RFC5322, changing the Message-ID is the correct way to identify a new revision of the message. In regards to the added headers, it states: The addition of such header fields does not change the identity of the message and therefore the original "Message-ID:" field is retained. In all cases, it is the meaning that the sender of the message wishes to convey (i.e., *whether this is the same message or a different **message*) that *determines whether or not the "Message-ID:" field **changes, *not any particular syntactic difference that appears (or does not appear) in the message. In other words, if you consider the message sent from the mailing list to be a different message, change the Message-ID. Keeping the Message-ID signals that it is the same message, and Gmail will suppress it as a duplicate. It should not affect message threading or other functions. (Threading is based on headers referencing previous messages, which are not changing. Changing the ID on the new message doesn't affect any of those headers.) If you don't want to change the Message-ID, you can subscribe another address to the list to get all of the messages. Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Re: Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Von: Willi übelherr via Gmail Help Forum Dear bkennelly, i thought, that gmail use the message-id for compare. But the mail i send is different to the mail i receive. The mailheader is extended. And this information is always necessary for me. To change the message-id is a bad way because the message-id are used for thread ordering in the mail directory. And many internal functions are working based on the message-id. My primary question goes to the possibility, how i can define or enable/disable this delete function in this account. many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Re: Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 19:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Von: bkennelly via Gmail Help Forum Gmail only stores one copy of each message in your account. If you sent the message, you already have a copy and the incoming copy is recognised as a duplicate. If your mailing list software has the option to change the Message-ID when re-sending messages, Gmail will recognise the returning message as a new version and you will get it in your Inbox. Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Von: Willi übelherr An: gm...@googleproductforums.com Dear friends, the gmail-server blocked email to my account. Not as spam. No, as any else. If i send a mail to a maillistserver for distribution, i want to receive this mail from the listserver. But google stopped this mail without my request and without any information to me. In the mailman-configuration i can set this option. But then, it have to work transparently and never i accept any hidden mail deleting. many greetings, willi Panama City -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] [discuss] configuration of the maillist server from 1net.org
Dear friends, i send you a small communication with google. This technican people are realy very stupid. I wait for a reply to my more concrete question. But i think, Google don't like this public disgracing. many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Von: Willi übelherr An: gm...@googleproductforums.com Dear friends, the gmail-server blocked email to my account. Not as spam. No, as any else. If i send a mail to a maillistserver for distribution, i want to receive this mail from the listserver. But google stopped this mail without my request and without any information to me. In the mailman-configuration i can set this option. But then, it have to work transparently and never i accept any hidden mail deleting. many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Re: Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 19:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Von: bkennelly via Gmail Help Forum Gmail only stores one copy of each message in your account. If you sent the message, you already have a copy and the incoming copy is recognised as a duplicate. If your mailing list software has the option to change the Message-ID when re-sending messages, Gmail will recognise the returning message as a new version and you will get it in your Inbox. Original-Nachricht Betreff: [Gmail Forum] Re: Not receiving email from groups Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Von: Willi übelherr via Gmail Help Forum Dear bkennelly, i thought, that gmail use the message-id for compare. But the mail i send is different to the mail i receive. The mailheader is extended. And this information is always necessary for me. To change the message-id is a bad way because the message-id are used for thread ordering in the mail directory. And many internal functions are working based on the message-id. My primary question goes to the possibility, how i can define or enable/disable this delete function in this account. many greetings, willi Panama City -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] user configuration
Dear Mark, many thanks. Now i understand. If i use the archive to import mails from Mbox-format, the header are cutted. I don't like this. Maybe, with the digest mode it is the same. And for my needs to be able to actually interaction it is not good for me. I will try to ask the google-team how i can stop this stupid feature. And if i get a positive answer i will send it to this list. many greetings, willi Panama City Am 06/21/2014 12:14 p.m., schrieb Mark Sapiro: On 06/21/2014 10:05 AM, willi uebelherr wrote: many thanks for your answer. What is "digests"? I am a german and i don't understand the translation for "digest". From the subscription form on the listinfo page: Möchten Sie die Listenmails gebündelt in Form einer täglichen Zusammenfassung (digest) erhalten? From the user options page: Zusammenfassungs Modus Wenn Sie den Zusammenfassungs Modus aktivieren, erhalten Sie die Nachrichten eines Tages gebündelt anstatt einzeln. Wenn der Zusammenfassungs Modus von an auf aus gewechselt wird, erhalten Sie eine letzet Zusammenfassung! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] user configuration
Am 06/21/2014 11:05 a.m., schrieb Richard Damon: > ... > There are cases where YOUR mail transport or user agent might > eliminate/hide messages. GMail is well know to do this, it will > automatically remove extra copies of messages that it sees as > dupicate (by matching message ids). If there are lists where you > actually get your own message back or get duplicate copies then that > list is doing something non-standard to defeat the operation. The one > standard thing that can sort of do this is digests, as everyone on > digests gets the same digests, and they are unique messages so gmail > won't see them as duplicates. Dear Richard, many thanks for your answer. What is "digests"? I am a german and i don't understand the translation for "digest". May be, it is a process of manipulating the mail header? My question to Mark was, what can i do to change the message-id? Is that, what you propose? many greetings, willi Panama City -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] user configuration
Dear Mark, many thanks for you fast answer. But in this time, before i read your answer, i search in the mailman documentation and i found this information. With your answer now i know, what is going on. I think, Goggle use the mail-message-id. Is it possible in the mailman, to change the message-id of the mail? Of course, independent from all, i have to disolve all my gmail accounts. But it needs a little bit of time. With the archives i can always see, what the list-server distribute. Because now, i know from you, that this information is valid as a base. thank you very much and many greetings, willi Panama City Am 06/21/2014 11:01 a.m., schrieb Mark Sapiro: On 06/20/2014 11:28 AM, willi uebelherr wrote: In some maillist i have the problems, that the user configuration a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO is not working. On some maillists it is working. Never i administrate a mailman instance. I need some ideas to search in the documentation to this configuration overlay. Well, it's not a "configuration overlay", but that's beside the point. You are posting here from a gmail address. Gmail users NEVER receive their own posts from lists. This is a Gmail "feature". See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> for more info. I am not shure, that this admin configuration overlay exist. But it seems like that. All the admin persons don't answer to my question. Maybe they don't understand my question. But it is simple. a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES With YES, if you send a mail to the list server, he distribute this mail also to you. Yes, but if you post from and receive your mail at Gmail, Gmail throws it away. b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO With NO, the distribution act without any check of your address in TO or CC. Correct. Because it don't work in general, i think, there is a admin configuration point to setup a general method over the users method. There is no overriding admin configuration that would change these behaviors. If Gmail is not the reason, then it is something else in the delivery chain back to you. With the settings you describe, Mailman will send you copies of your own posts. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Fwd: Re: [discuss] configuration of the maillist server from 1net.org
Dear friends, with this information from the mailman admin documentation i understand the wrong situation. I tried to discuss with the people from the admin group on www.1net.org. But the proplem have nothing to do with mailman-server. many thanks for your information. But what can we/i do? Of course, never use Gmail. It is the best. And for the transition time? Do you have an idea for a workaround? many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: Re: [discuss] configuration of the maillist server from 1net.org Datum: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:16:51 -0500 Von: willi uebelherr An: 1net discuss Kopie (CC): 1net discuss owner , 1net discuss admin , 1net secretariat Dear friends, in the Mailman admin documentation i found this text: http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list 2.8. Help! I use Gmail/Googlemail, but I can't tell if any of my messages have been posted to the list! Q: I use Gmail/Googlemail, but when I send a message to a list that I am subscribed to, but I never get a copy back. A: There is a problem with gmail/googlemail - when you send a message to a mailing list, any mailing list, gmail doesn't show you your own message as it comes back from the list. Everybody else sees it, even other gmail users, but not you. And replies to your message will be threaded with your post as you sent it, not as it came back (ie without list headers, subject tags or footers). This is a "feature" of gmail, and there is nothing you or the list administrator can do about it. For Google's explanation of this, see <http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6588>. Note that the Google explanation appears to say that your message from the list will be archived in "All Mail", but this is not correct. The only message in "All Mail" is your original message from "Sent". The actual message from the list with all headers and the list's footer and header if any is apparently not saved anywhere by Google. If your list has archives that you can check, you can at least see whether or not your message got posted to the list. You can also set your Mailman option "Receive acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?" to Yes. Beyond that, unfortunately there is nothing else we can do to help you. in the Google help i found: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6588 Not receiving email from groups When you send mail to any group or mailing list you subscribe to, Gmail automatically skips your inbox and archives the message to save you time and prevent clutter. The message will appear in your inbox if someone responds to it or if there is an error delivering the message. If you'd like to view your message, you can find it in Sent Mail or All Mail. I don't know the history of this stupid filtering from Google. Maybe, they use the message-id. It is a helpful information for thread ordering of mails. With this information now i understand the wrong situation with the mailman lists like 1net.org. It is a problem of my google-account and have nothing to do with the mailman-server from www.1net.org or www.nro.net. It is a very good example of non-neutrality in the internet. If any people have an idea for a bypass or workaround, it would be very great. Please excuse my accusations. many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: Re: [discuss] configuration of the maillist server from 1net.org Datum: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:29:19 -0500 Von: willi uebelherr An: 1net discuss Kopie (CC): 1net discuss owner , 1net discuss admin , 1net secretariat Dear friends, I can only repeat my regularly request to the admin group of 1Net mail list. With that, maybe, we understand more and more the bureaucratic and arrogant condition on this list. The technical questions are simpel. But to correct the situation you need the access to the list server configuration. many greetings, willi Panama City Original-Nachricht Betreff: Re: [discuss] configuration of the maillist server from 1net.org Datum: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:25:07 -0600 Von: willi uebelherr An: 1net discuss Kopie (CC): 1net discuss owner , 1net discuss admin , 1net secretariat Dear friends, i my last mail i wrote on the end: "I hope now, we can read an answer." But nothing come. If the people of the admin-group on this have technical problems, they can ask in this list. I am shure, there are people with experience and knowledge. But to ignore the questions, then it is a very different kind of behavior. I repeat my question from my first mail in this thread: " Dear friends of the moderation group, what i have to do that i receive mails from the list with my address in To or CC? And that i receive the mails i have send to the list? my configuration: Receive your own post
[Mailman-Users] user configuration
Dear friends, i am new on this list and come with a question to the overlay of admin configurations over the users configurations. In some maillist i have the problems, that the user configuration a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO is not working. On some maillists it is working. Never i administrate a mailman instance. I need some ideas to search in the documentation to this configuration overlay. I am not shure, that this admin configuration overlay exist. But it seems like that. All the admin persons don't answer to my question. Maybe they don't understand my question. But it is simple. a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES With YES, if you send a mail to the list server, he distribute this mail also to you. b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO With NO, the distribution act without any check of your address in TO or CC. Because it don't work in general, i think, there is a admin configuration point to setup a general method over the users method. many thanks for your work, and many greetings, willi (currently) Panama City -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
