Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I.e. it is sent twice to different spellings of
 > bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net which may account for your have
 > received 3 copies because MTAs should consider
 > bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net and
 > bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net to be separate recipients.

>From the "But that's *stupid*" department:

N.As I'm sure Mark knows, distinguishing case in mailboxes is a
deprecated practice, and local mail delivery systems are strongly
encouraged to avoid it.  Nevertheless, the practice *does exist*, and
therefore originating and intermediate MTAs *must* distinguish those
addresses, and forward to all of them.  The originating MTA cannot
know what the ultimate destination's policy is, and it must not guess.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-10 Thread Mark Sapiro 
TomSherlock 
>
>bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net is a subscriber of the mailing list and
>the only one able to post to the mailing list.  E-mail sent to
>Bulletin-editor is forwarded to my e-mail account. 
>bulle...@lincolnschoolpta.net is the mailing list and is managed through
>mailman.


So the original post was sent to both
bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net and
bulle...@lincolnschoolpta.net. You received a copy of the list post
from the list and you also received the copy of the message that was
sent to bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net.

If the only copy you received from the list was the one sent from the
list to bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net, you can suppress this
copy from the list by checking 'nodups' for the
bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net member on the Membership
Management... -> Membership List page in the list's admin interface or
by setting the "Avoid duplicate copies of messages?" option to Yes on
the user options page for bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net.


>Here is the header of the third e-mail.  It looks like it includes list info
>and mailman info:


This is a totally different message with different Message-ID and
subject from the ones you posted previously.

This one is addressed to

>To: ,
>   , 

I.e. it is sent twice to different spellings of
bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net which may account for your have
received 3 copies because MTAs should consider
bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net and
bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net to be separate recipients.


>Received: (qmail 11845 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2009 22:28:52 -
>Received: from unknown (HELO p3pismtp01-016.prod.phx3.secureserver.net)
>([10.6.12.16])
>  (envelope-sender )
>  by smtp18-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-1.03) with SMTP
>  for ; 8 Dec 2009 22:28:52 -
>Received: from a2s47.a2hosting.com ([216.119.128.130])
>  by p3pismtp01-016.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2009
>15:28:52 -0700
>Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=a2s47.a2hosting.com)
>   by a2s47.a2hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
>   (envelope-from )
>   id 1NI8XM-0008Mx-AG; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:28:04 -0500
>Received: from smtp4.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.151])
>   by a2s47.a2hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
>   (envelope-from )
>   id 1NI8XI-0007S6-Jq; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:28:01 -0500
>Received: from E03MVC4-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.116]) by
>   smtp4.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); 
>   Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:27:55 +
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>boundary="_=_NextPart_001_01CA7855.B0326989"
>Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:25:55 -
>Message-ID:
><6a375f4747f4b14eb41af6728c452aff02200...@e03mvc4-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
>X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
>X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
>Thread-Topic: [LSPTA Bulletin 24]  Lincoln News- Cookie Dough is here!!! 
>Thread-Index: Acp4R4oMftaqBO0+T/+5kewhonrw5wADd5PM
>References:
><6a375f4747f4b14eb41af6728c452aff05802...@e03mvc4-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
>To: ,
>   , 
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2009 22:27:55.0904 (UTC)
>   FILETIME=[B04F9800:01CA7855]
>From: Lincoln School PTA Bulletin 
>Subject: [LSPTA Bulletin 24]   Lincoln News- Cookie Dough is here!!!
>X-BeenThere: bulle...@lincolnschoolpta.net
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11.cp3
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net
>List-Id: Lincoln School PTA Bulletin
>   
>List-Unsubscribe:
>,
>   
>List-Archive:
>
>List-Post: 
>List-Help: 
>List-Subscribe:
>,
>   
>Sender: bulletin-boun...@lincolnschoolpta.net
>Errors-To: bulletin-boun...@lincolnschoolpta.net
>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with
>any abuse report
>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s47.a2hosting.com
>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ramruva.com
>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - lincolnschoolpta.net
>X-Nonspam: Whitelist
>-- 
>View this message in context: 
>http://old.nabble.com/Can%27t-hide-sender-of-message-tp26705496p26722317.html
>Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>--
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>Searchable Arch

Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-10 Thread TomSherlock 



Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm sorry we can't find a Mailman issue here, in the sense that we
> could help you with that.
> 
> 
> --
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> 


Your reply, Mark's and Michael have definitely helped me to sort this out.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-10 Thread TomSherlock 

No, I am trying use the mailman feature which allows the poster's e-mail to
be shown as coming from the  list, not from the poster.

However, based on the analysis of the others, regular may be getting mixed
in with the mailing list.


LuKreme wrote:
> 
> On 9-Dec-2009, at 09:01, TomSherlock wrote:
>> They receive two messages, one from the list and one from the poster.
> 
> So you are trying to figure out how Mailman can prevent a third party from
> mailing a third party?
> 
> 
> -- 
> The older you get the more you need the people you knew when you
>   were young.
> 
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
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> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40nabble.com
> 
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-10 Thread TomSherlock 


Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> 
> Please two things about the above message. It contains no Mailman
> headers of any kind indicating it didn't come from a Mailman list. It
> is addressed To: ,
>   
> 
> Would  be an alias for you?
> 
> -- 
> 
> 


bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net is a subscriber of the mailing list and
the only one able to post to the mailing list.  E-mail sent to
Bulletin-editor is forwarded to my e-mail account. 
bulle...@lincolnschoolpta.net is the mailing list and is managed through
mailman.

Here is the header of the third e-mail.  It looks like it includes list info
and mailman info:

Received: (qmail 11845 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2009 22:28:52 -
Received: from unknown (HELO p3pismtp01-016.prod.phx3.secureserver.net)
([10.6.12.16])
  (envelope-sender )
  by smtp18-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-1.03) with SMTP
  for ; 8 Dec 2009 22:28:52 -
Received: from a2s47.a2hosting.com ([216.119.128.130])
  by p3pismtp01-016.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2009
15:28:52 -0700
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=a2s47.a2hosting.com)
by a2s47.a2hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from )
id 1NI8XM-0008Mx-AG; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:28:04 -0500
Received: from smtp4.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.151])
by a2s47.a2hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from )
id 1NI8XI-0007S6-Jq; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:28:01 -0500
Received: from E03MVC4-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.116]) by
smtp4.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); 
Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:27:55 +
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="_=_NextPart_001_01CA7855.B0326989"
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:25:55 -
Message-ID:
<6a375f4747f4b14eb41af6728c452aff02200...@e03mvc4-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [LSPTA Bulletin 24]  Lincoln News- Cookie Dough is here!!! 
Thread-Index: Acp4R4oMftaqBO0+T/+5kewhonrw5wADd5PM
References:
<6a375f4747f4b14eb41af6728c452aff05802...@e03mvc4-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
To: ,
, 
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2009 22:27:55.0904 (UTC)
FILETIME=[B04F9800:01CA7855]
From: Lincoln School PTA Bulletin 
Subject: [LSPTA Bulletin 24]   Lincoln News- Cookie Dough is here!!!
X-BeenThere: bulle...@lincolnschoolpta.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11.cp3
Precedence: list
Reply-To: bulletin-edi...@lincolnschoolpta.net
List-Id: Lincoln School PTA Bulletin

List-Unsubscribe:
,

List-Archive:

List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe:
,

Sender: bulletin-boun...@lincolnschoolpta.net
Errors-To: bulletin-boun...@lincolnschoolpta.net
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with
any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s47.a2hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ramruva.com
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - lincolnschoolpta.net
X-Nonspam: Whitelist
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-09 Thread LuKreme 
On 9-Dec-2009, at 09:01, TomSherlock wrote:
> They receive two messages, one from the list and one from the poster.

So you are trying to figure out how Mailman can prevent a third party from 
mailing a third party?


-- 
The older you get the more you need the people you knew when you
were young.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
TomSherlock writes:

 > They receive two messages, one from the list and one from the poster.
 > 
 > Here is the header from the poster:

Cutting to the chase, from poster, the (relevant, edited) headers are:

 > Received: from a2s47 by m1pismtp01-023
 > Received: from smtp1 by a2s47

>From list:

 > Received: from vms169129pub by p3pismtp01-026
 > Received: from a2s47 by vms169129 for t...@ramruva.com (ORCPT tj.sherlock)
 > Received: from localhost by a2s47
 > Received: from smtp1 by a2s47

First, note the "from localhost" entry in the second series.  This
means that Mailman is reinjecting the message on the same host.  It
doesn't appear in the first series; Mailman did *not* handle that
message, it was relayed *directly to you* by the MTA at a2s47.
Second, apparently the list knows you as "tj.sherlock at verizon", but
it's likely the direct mail was originally addressed to "tom at ramruva".

I would guess that the sender is BCC'ing you (perhaps to help you
identify any problems?)  It's hard to say because I don't know
Microsoft Exchange, but it is quite possible that the mail from the
sender's host is going to multiple recipients (ie, other than the
list) at the point where her MUA injects it.  If there were a single
message to the list only, the first MTA in the chain will often have a
"for mailing-list" clause in the Received header.  Its absence doesn't
prove anything, but certainly leaves open the possibility of multiple
recipients.

A lower probability is that there's a rule or alias at a2s47's MTA
that BCCs you on list mail, again for debugging purposes.
(Coincidentally, yesterday I implemented exactly that feature using
the same MTA (Exim 4) for a list I run, although the purpose was
different.  It's just one line in /etc/aliases.)

As unlikely as that seems, based on the Received chain posted, I would
say a problem with Mailman is even less likely.  I just don't see how
Mailman could be involved with the direct mail.

I'm sorry we can't find a Mailman issue here, in the sense that we
could help you with that.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-09 Thread Mark Sapiro 
TomSherlock wrote:
>
>They receive two messages, one from the list and one from the poster.
>
>Here is the header from the poster:
>
>Received: (qmail 11320 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2009 20:44:06 -
>Received: from unknown (HELO m1pismtp01-023.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net)
>([10.8.12.26])
>  (envelope-sender )
>  by smtp26-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-1.03) with SMTP
>  for ; 8 Dec 2009 20:44:06 -
>Received: from a2s47.a2hosting.com ([216.119.128.130])
>  by m1pismtp01-023.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2009
>13:44:05 -0700
>Received: from smtp1.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.137])
>   by a2s47.a2hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
>   (envelope-from )
>   id 1NI6uh-0004QP-Sv; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:44:04 -0500
>Received: from E03MVC4-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.116]) by
>smtp1.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);
>Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:43:58 +
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/related;
>   type="multipart/alternative";
>   boundary="_=_NextPart_001_01CA7847.2AAEA169"
>Subject: [LSPTA Bulletin 22] Lincoln News- Holiday Boutique Countdown 
>Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:46:39 -
>Message-ID:
><6a375f4747f4b14eb41af6728c452aff05802...@e03mvc4-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
>X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
>X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
>Thread-Topic: [LSPTA Bulletin 22] Lincoln News- Holiday Boutique Countdown 
>Thread-Index: Acp4R4oMftaqBO0+T/+5kewhonrw5w==
>From: 
>To: ,
>   
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2009 20:43:58.0913 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[2AC64B10:01CA7847]
>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with
>any abuse report
>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s47.a2hosting.com
>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lincolnschoolpta.net
>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bt.com
>X-Nonspam: Whitelist
>


Please two things about the above message. It contains no Mailman
headers of any kind indicating it didn't come from a Mailman list. It
is addressed To: ,


Would  be an alias for you?

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-09 Thread TomSherlock 


Mark Sapiro-3 wrote:
> 
> TomSherlock wrote:
>>
>>I use Mailman version 2.1.11.cp3.  I have  set to "yes" the option  "Hide
>>the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From,
>>Sender and Reply-To fields)".
>>
>>Now subscribers are receiving e-mail from the mailing list and from the
>>author of the e-mail message.
> 
> 
> Do you mean they receive a single message from the list which is From:
> both the list and the poster? If so, this is a cPanel issue which we
> can't help with. See the FAQ at .
> 
> If on the other hand, you mean they receive two messages, one from the
> list which is From: the list and one From: the poster, perhaps the
> poster is including some list members in a CC or BCC, or this could
> also be a cPanel issue.
> 
> In order to say more, we'd have to see the complete headers of both
> messages.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 

They receive two messages, one from the list and one from the poster.

Here is the header from the poster:

Received: (qmail 11320 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2009 20:44:06 -
Received: from unknown (HELO m1pismtp01-023.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net)
([10.8.12.26])
  (envelope-sender )
  by smtp26-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-1.03) with SMTP
  for ; 8 Dec 2009 20:44:06 -
Received: from a2s47.a2hosting.com ([216.119.128.130])
  by m1pismtp01-023.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2009
13:44:05 -0700
Received: from smtp1.smtp.bt.com ([217.32.164.137])
by a2s47.a2hosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from )
id 1NI6uh-0004QP-Sv; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:44:04 -0500
Received: from E03MVC4-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.116]) by
smtp1.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);
 Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:43:58 +
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related;
type="multipart/alternative";
boundary="_=_NextPart_001_01CA7847.2AAEA169"
Subject: [LSPTA Bulletin 22] Lincoln News- Holiday Boutique Countdown 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:46:39 -
Message-ID:
<6a375f4747f4b14eb41af6728c452aff05802...@e03mvc4-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [LSPTA Bulletin 22] Lincoln News- Holiday Boutique Countdown 
Thread-Index: Acp4R4oMftaqBO0+T/+5kewhonrw5w==
From: 
To: ,

X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2009 20:43:58.0913 (UTC)
FILETIME=[2AC64B10:01CA7847]
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with
any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s47.a2hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lincolnschoolpta.net
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bt.com
X-Nonspam: Whitelist


Here is the header from the list:

Received: (qmail 22283 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2009 20:44:25 -
Received: from unknown (HELO p3pismtp01-026.prod.phx3.secureserver.net)
([10.6.12.31])
  (envelope-sender )
  by smtp29.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-1.03) with SMTP
  for ; 8 Dec 2009 20:44:25 -
Received: from vms169129pub.verizon.net ([206.46.169.129])
  by p3pismtp01-026.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2009
13:44:24 -0700
Received: from a2s47.a2hosting.com ([216.119.128.130])
 by vms169129.mailsrvcs.net
 (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit))
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Thread-topic: [LSPTA Bulletin 22] Lincoln News- Holiday Boutique Countdown
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From: Lincoln School PTA Bulletin 
Subject: [LSPTA Bulletin 23]  Lincoln News- Holiday Boutique Countdown
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-09 Thread Mark Sapiro 
TomSherlock wrote:
>
>I use Mailman version 2.1.11.cp3.  I have  set to "yes" the option  "Hide
>the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From,
>Sender and Reply-To fields)".
>
>Now subscribers are receiving e-mail from the mailing list and from the
>author of the e-mail message.


Do you mean they receive a single message from the list which is From:
both the list and the poster? If so, this is a cPanel issue which we
can't help with. See the FAQ at .

If on the other hand, you mean they receive two messages, one from the
list which is From: the list and one From: the poster, perhaps the
poster is including some list members in a CC or BCC, or this could
also be a cPanel issue.

In order to say more, we'd have to see the complete headers of both
messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Can't hide sender of message

2009-12-09 Thread TomSherlock 

Hello.

I use Mailman version 2.1.11.cp3.  I have  set to "yes" the option  "Hide
the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From,
Sender and Reply-To fields)".

Now subscribers are receiving e-mail from the mailing list and from the
author of the e-mail message.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, 
Tom
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