[Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
Hello Mark, I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? If so where would the configuration be? Or where (beside the mail server) could I look to see who didn't receive the email? Bill -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? Not in Mailman. There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. 1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam 2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time 3) Your server is on an RBL 4) THEIR server is on an RBL 5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it 6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) There are probably other things. -- Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time might start to think. --Small Gods -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
Thanks, That's what I thought you just confirmed it. Bill -Original Message- From: mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi@python.org] On Behalf Of LuKreme Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:08 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? Not in Mailman. There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. 1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam 2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time 3) Your server is on an RBL 4) THEIR server is on an RBL 5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it 6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) There are probably other things. -- Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time might start to think. --Small Gods -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wgoodman%40jcvi.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
LuKreme wrote: On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? Not in Mailman. There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. 1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam 2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time 3) Your server is on an RBL 4) THEIR server is on an RBL 5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it 6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) There are probably other things. In addition to the above, check Mailman's smtp-failure log if you can. The 450 number (and exactly how can he know that?) suggests that possibly list delivery was chunked with the default SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 and only one chunk was accepted by the MTA. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
Interesting... I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and Spamassassian. I know this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix mail server configuration? Bill -Original Message- From: mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:27 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? LuKreme wrote: On 15-Jan-2010, at 09:24, Goodman, William wrote: I had a user send an email to one of our lists (approx. 700 email address), he states that some users received them about (450) and other did not. Is there a email address limitation or member limitation? Not in Mailman. There are many reasons that a mail may not be received by some members of a list. 1) Spam filters on their machines that trap the mail as spam 2) limitations on your sending server on how many emails you can send to how many people in what amount of time 3) Your server is on an RBL 4) THEIR server is on an RBL 5) They DID receive the mail, they just can't find it 6) DNS issues (yours or theirs) There are probably other things. In addition to the above, check Mailman's smtp-failure log if you can. The 450 number (and exactly how can he know that?) suggests that possibly list delivery was chunked with the default SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 and only one chunk was accepted by the MTA. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wgoodman%40jcvi.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
Goodman, William wrote: I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and Spamassassian. I know this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix mail server configuration? It is a Mailman configuration setting which may or may not mean anything depending on other Mailman site and list configuration settings such as VERP and personalization. It is in no way a limit on what can be sent from a list. It only limits the maximum number of RCPT TO addresses in a single SMTP transaction between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. It is the other side of Postfix's smtpd_recipient_limit. Mailman's SMTP_MAX_RCPTS should always be less than postfix's smtpd_recipient_limit or there may be unnecessary Postfix refusals and Mailman retries, but otherwise, these things in no way limit the number of total recipients to a message. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: Interesting... I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and Spamassassian. I know this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix mail server configuration? Since you're also managing the mail servers, you should be able to look in the postfix logs to see what's happening. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you first assessment is correct they did receive it but they just can't find it. to=u...@somewhere.com, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 u...@somewhere.com... Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: B405E2D858F Thanks for all your help... Bill -Original Message- From: mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+wgoodman=jcvi@python.org] On Behalf Of Larry Stone Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:28 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: Interesting... I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and Spamassassian. I know this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix mail server configuration? Since you're also managing the mail servers, you should be able to look in the postfix logs to see what's happening. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wgoodman%40jcvi.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you first assessment is correct they did receive it but they just can't find it. Uh no, the message below is a deferral. Postfix keeps retrying until it times out at which point is bounced. How long until it times out is a site configurable length of time (default five days, I think). to=u...@somewhere.com, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 u...@somewhere.com... Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: B405E2D858F -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
We have a very busy mail server so I set it to 4 hours, when I used the default we had a mailq of over 200 everyday which slowed our performance. So it will keep trying to send it for 4 hours then it gets bounced. -Original Message- From: Larry Stone [mailto:lston...@stonejongleux.com] Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:17 PM To: Goodman, William Cc: mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation? On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you first assessment is correct they did receive it but they just can't find it. Uh no, the message below is a deferral. Postfix keeps retrying until it times out at which point is bounced. How long until it times out is a site configurable length of time (default five days, I think). to=u...@somewhere.com, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 u...@somewhere.com... Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: B405E2D858F -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
Goodman, William writes: We have a very busy mail server so I set it to 4 hours, when I used the default we had a mailq of over 200 everyday which slowed our performance. So it will keep trying to send it for 4 hours then it gets bounced. Sure, but the main point is that the user can't find it in his/her mailbox because that mailbox is unavailable. to=u...@somewhere.com, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 u...@somewhere.com... Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: B405E2D858F This looks like greylisting to me. (Maybe broken; state of the art greylisters tell you how long to wait before resending.) Another possibility, especially if somewhere == aol or hotmail, is a tarpit. They think you may be spamming their members, and they're forcing you to slow down. I'll give you one scenario you might think about that connects a couple of the symptoms you report. 1. Some corresponding hosts have decided you might be a spammer, and are rate limiting you by temporarily failing delivery to any mailbox. 2. The queue built up not because of load on your server, but because those hosts will only let you send to one address every 10 minutes or something like that. 3. When you cut the retry period to 4 hours, you simply arranged to bounce mail that would eventually have succeeded in due time, but you *must* pay that due time to succeed at those destinations. If it's indeed one or more of the big services, they usually have an AUP for lists. You can register with them, provide bona fides (such DKIM headers in your outgoing posts), and magically things will start flowing well. For smaller hosts, you might just negotiate directly with the postmaster. Another possibility is that you might want to just accept the slowdown, but to reduce resources used by your host, instead of doing the first retry very soon, you could wait several hours. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
