[Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
Well, I reasoned that mailman was working just fine, save for the fact that it was not delivering any messages. I went to Mailman/Defaults.py and there I learned that the makers of mailman, in an over-protective move, commented out Sendmail as the Delivery_Module, and put SMTPDirect instead. All that is fine, except that there should be a warning about this somewhere in the INSTALL docs. I do know about the security problems with Sendmail, and I am applying myself to patching my installation this afternoon. But, from the point of view of mailman, once the correct Delivery_Module was specified in Defaults.py, it works fast as a whistle. I am glad: the work paid off. I am mad: I hate it when something as basic as 'Sendmail' is commented out because You shouldn't be running sendmail in the first place. Fine, but tell me about it in the README file. I say it here in case another newbie writes in the future with the same difficulty. Many thanks to all who bothered with my problem. Best, elena -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Elena Fraboschi wrote: and there I learned that the makers of mailman, in an over-protective move, commented out Sendmail as the Delivery_Module, and put SMTPDirect instead. All that is fine, except that there should be a warning about this somewhere in the INSTALL docs. There isn't a warning because you the Sendmail DELIVERY_MODULE is not supposed to be used in a production environment. The comments in Default.py direct you to read Mailman/Handlers/Sendmail.py if you want to use it. When you read that file, you see this: WARNING WARNING WARNING: This module is provided for example purposes only. It should not be used in a production environment for reasons described below. Because of this, you must explicitly enable it with by editing the code. See the WARN section in the process() function. This module delivers the message via the command line interface to the sendmail program. It should work for sendmail clones like Postfix. It is expected that sendmail handles final delivery, message queueing, etc. The recipient list is only trivially split so that the command line is less than about 3k in size. SECURITY WARNING: Because this module uses os.popen(), it goes through the shell. This module does not scan the arguments for potential exploits and so it should be considered unsafe for production use. For performance reasons, it's not recommended either -- use the SMTPDirect delivery module instead, even if you're using the sendmail MTA. DUPLICATES WARNING: Using this module can cause duplicates to be delivered to your membership, depending on your MTA! E.g. It is known that if you're using the sendmail MTA, and if a message contains a single dot on a line by itself, your list members will receive many duplicates. That's a pretty strong warning against using this in production. I do know about the security problems with Sendmail, and I am applying myself to patching my installation this afternoon. There is nothing wrong with using sendmail as your MTA with mailman. Lots of people do this (despite sendmail's horrid .cf file, IMO ;). The DELIVERY_MODULE setting simply changes the method by which mail gets from mailman to your MTA. The default (and preferred) way is to use SMTP to talk to your MTA. Changing the DELIVERY_MODULE to Sendmail.py uses the command line interface to any sendmail compatible MTA (like Postfix). But, from the point of view of mailman, once the correct Delivery_Module was specified in Defaults.py, it works fast as a whistle. I might not understand completely what problems you were having, but if the default DELIVERY_MODULE setting wasn't working, is it possible that you didn't have your MTA running or configured to accept mail from mailman? I am glad: the work paid off. I am mad: I hate it when something as basic as 'Sendmail' is commented out because You shouldn't be running sendmail in the first place. Fine, but tell me about it in the README file. I say it here in case another newbie writes in the future with the same difficulty. It's not in the README because it's considered experimental and unsecured. The mailman developers aren't trying to be mean or shove their views down users throats. In fact, the developers I've seen all seem like really nice folks. :) - -- Todd OpenPGP - KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom. -- Will Rogers -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl. iD8DBQE+b3Youv+09NZUB1oRAkAPAJ9hz9bQlzaNR0SRM4KHYCtJx1T1oQCg9zrj XGWCC30btIl81W2KkNWaNog= =3NF2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
ugh, you must be a developer... :-) (just in case, here comes another one ;-)) My problem was that mailman received all fine, queued all fine, and never delivered a thing. Obviously my sendmail was running. When I changed DELIVERY_MODULE from SMTPDirect to Sendmail, it worked just fine. Now, I do not understand this: First you wrote: That's a pretty strong warning against using this in production. And then you wrote: There is nothing wrong with using sendmail as your MTA with mailman. Lots of people do this (despite sendmail's horrid .cf file, IMO ;). So, my problem (one of my many problems :-)) is that, I suppose, I do not know what the hell is SMTPDirect, except that it is not something standard in Solaris 8, because I have the full distribution. Now, might mailman work if I just put SMTP instead of SMTPDirect? Any comments? As for all the warnings you cited, right, I read them. I read them *after* I discovered what the problem was, which took me 24 hours... My only point is that I would not see anything wrong if the README file, the one we read when we install the thing, had said: By the way, take a look at Defaults.py. It may well be that your sistem does not use SMTPDirect bla bla bla. Best, elena -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Elena Fraboschi wrote: Thank you, Todd, for acting so irate ;-) about my bypassing the warnings and setting up sendmail in the raw as opposed to going to it via SMTPDirect. I guess that's like 'tough love.' ;-) I guess I have demonstrated to be truly a newbie but... there is hope for me. I decided to look into the sendmail.cf You are a brave soul. I only edited sendmail.cf a few times before I switched to postfix, which uses plain english for it's config file (I know, what a weird idea :). file, and it turns out that somehow the rest of sendmail (including listserv) was working fine, but mailman was pickier, and wanted the canonical domain of the host given there, in full. The canonical name was not there; instead, only the short name was given (it said mafalda instead of mafalda.math.indiana.edu). I edited sendmail.cf Dj$w.$m and now I can go back to having SMTPDirect. Nifty. Many thanks, best, elena Cool. Glad it's working. Now you can enjoy playing with the more fun parts of mailman. Have a good time. - -- Todd OpenPGP - KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp A budget is just a method of worrying before you spend money, as well as afterward. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl. iD8DBQE+b4+uuv+09NZUB1oRAvHWAJ4yxVeAhGWMMtj0ZO8/ReyR9Co6fgCfdPRS xJCJwOlaOHvT3QY+jjEkY3M= =JAQg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Elena Fraboschi wrote: ugh, you must be a developer... :-) Not even close. (I don't even play one on TV. :) My problem was that mailman received all fine, queued all fine, and never delivered a thing. Obviously my sendmail was running. When I changed DELIVERY_MODULE from SMTPDirect to Sendmail, it worked just fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that the sendmail daemon was running. Changing DELIVERY_MODULE to Sendmail calls the sendmail binary directly so it would work even if sendmail was running in daemon mode. One way to tell if your MTA is listening for connections via SMTP is to use telnet, something like this: $ telnet localhost 25 You should get something like this: Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. 220 localhost ESMTP Postfix So, my problem (one of my many problems :-)) is that, I suppose, I do not know what the hell is SMTPDirect, except that it is not something standard in Solaris 8, because I have the full distribution. SMTPDirect isn't a program, it's a python module in mailman. That's what Sendmail is too, as used by the DELIVERY_MODULE setting. Using SMTPDirect tells mailman that it should try to deliver mail using the SMTP protocol. Now, might mailman work if I just put SMTP instead of SMTPDirect? Any comments? Unless you write a python module called SMTP, it would not. As for all the warnings you cited, right, I read them. I read them *after* I discovered what the problem was, which took me 24 hours... My only point is that I would not see anything wrong if the README file, the one we read when we install the thing, had said: By the way, take a look at Defaults.py. It may well be that your sistem does not use SMTPDirect bla bla bla. Since SMTPDirect merely tells mailman to use SMTP, and it's assumed that you're running an SMTP server (be it sendmail, postfix, exim, qmail, etc) it should be unnecessary to add such a warning. - -- Todd OpenPGP - KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp I always wanted to be a procrastinator, never got around to it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl. iD8DBQE+b454uv+09NZUB1oRAmu/AJ4z6fpy68R7hqShOiaDrlC8IOFL5ACaAw5g O2OQZ8Z2s5pES7aGWVauVMI= =KxOm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
So, I got this: #telnet localhost 25 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. 220 mafalda.math.indiana.edu ESMTP Sendmail bla bla bla versions Well, let me play with the fun parts :-) Best, elena -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
But, from the point of view of mailman, once the correct Delivery_Module was specified in Defaults.py, it works fast as a whistle. That was a typo, right? There is ample warning in the documentation (and, IIRC, in the Defaults.py file itself) that changes go in mm_cfg.py, not in Defaults.py. Kyle -- It is better to know nothing than to have learned nothing. -fortune cookie proverb -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
Thank you, Todd, for acting so irate ;-) about my bypassing the warnings and setting up sendmail in the raw as opposed to going to it via SMTPDirect. I guess I have demonstrated to be truly a newbie but... there is hope for me. I decided to look into the sendmail.cf file, and it turns out that somehow the rest of sendmail (including listserv) was working fine, but mailman was pickier, and wanted the canonical domain of the host given there, in full. The canonical name was not there; instead, only the short name was given (it said mafalda instead of mafalda.math.indiana.edu). I edited sendmail.cf Dj$w.$m and now I can go back to having SMTPDirect. Nifty. Many thanks, best, elena -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem solved: it was the MTA
No, it was not a typo, just an ellipsis :-) I am very careful when it comes to changing things. I read that changes are not to go into Defaults, and I made the changes in mm_cfg.py. I just omitted the gory details :-) (that what I put in mm_cfg.py in the end becomes Defaults). But you are right, I should have been more precise. Best, elena -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
