Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
On Feb 5, 2004, at 5:02 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: Cool! I'm a Level 10 Paladin with 115 hit points! (ok, *now* I'm done) lightweight. I'd have you killed, but you're not worth the karma points. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
On Feb 5, 2004, at 4:58 PM, Paul H Byerly wrote: I think the issue for the developers is theory vs. reality. What is the desired behaviour for the majority of new Mailman lists? Should not that be the default, with appropriate explanations? This isn't the answer some will want to hear, but -- the defaults are the desired behavior for the majority of new mailman lists, based on the combined wisdom of the Mailman developers, and after long consideration and not a little enthusiastic discussion among interested users here on theese lists (you think this is the first time this has come up?) You may not agree with them, they may not be appropriate for your list or users, but they aren't set that way by mistake or accident. They are set based on how we feel things work best under normal circumstances and for typical (especially less experienced and non-geek users). Our feeling is the geeks and the experts know how to tweak their own enivronment to suit their needs, the novices don't. So the geeks don't need us setting defaults -- and the novices do. We also don't feel that the argument "yahoogroups" does it, because some of us feel that Yahoo is horribly broken (and remember, yahoogroups is configured to maximize messages that go through the list, and entries that go to the archives, because that maximizes how many ads they can send and how many click ads they can display. Those are not necessarily the best reasons to set defaults if you aren't trying to generate a revenue stream like Yahoo). Besides, if you buy into the argument that Mailman should do things like Yahoo becaues Yahoo is really large and they do it that way, then I guess all e-mail clients ought to operate like AOL's does, and we should throw out all client features that, and we should dump mac os x and linux for windows, because of microsoft's market share. Large market shares is not a persuading reason in and of itself. well documented. I'd like to think most folks who are new to Mailman will take as much time to learn it as I did, but what I see on this list suggests that this is less and less common. You only see the problems on this list. You don't see the much greater number of sites and users who are happy. Be ware of assuming the squeaky wheel speaks for the whole wagon -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
hmm. seems the preceding discussion is a good example of why 'reply to list' could be a bad thing ;-) reply-to-list is a *configurable* thing, on a per-list basis, without needing access to anything except a MM list admin interface. I'd hope system admins of any experience would be able to handle inspecting default configurations and adjusting them to suit. whether or not reply-to-list is good, bad, or ugly is moot. it's an option system admins [and individual list admins - independently] are able to exercise control over. ..and you still get to manually adjust 'to', 'cc', 'bc' addresses in.. hang on - every - mail client. oh, about every time you send an e-mail. it's a basic rule of e-mail since day dot: check your target addresses, just like paper mail... we find it pretty useful for our small-but-active e-list communities. Some don't like it, so they change their lists to 'reply to sender'. move on? I vote yes. .a >>> Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6/02/2004 12:13:01 pm >>> At 5:02 PM -0800 2004/02/05, Mark Dadgar wrote: > Cool! I'm a Level 10 Paladin with 115 hit points! If you want to talk about D&D, I do have a number of characters I could discuss. Which version would you prefer to start with? The original boxed edition, AD&D, 2nd edition AD&D, or something else? Maybe you'd prefer to talk about real-world things? -- Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+() DI+() D+(++) G+() e++> h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adam.steer%40alia.org.au -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
At 5:02 PM -0800 2004/02/05, Mark Dadgar wrote: Cool! I'm a Level 10 Paladin with 115 hit points! If you want to talk about D&D, I do have a number of characters I could discuss. Which version would you prefer to start with? The original boxed edition, AD&D, 2nd edition AD&D, or something else? Maybe you'd prefer to talk about real-world things? -- Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+() DI+() D+(++) G+() e++> h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
On Feb 5, 2004, at 4:58 PM, Paul H Byerly wrote: My apologies for bringing it up at all!! Agreed! My apologies to everyone for posting a cranky note last night and really getting the ball rolling. Personally I am very happy with Mailman, and I find most of the settings easy to understand and well documented. Agreed! Great software. - Mark -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
On Feb 5, 2004, at 4:27 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: Not to mention a system administrator's worst nightmare... I am a SAGE Level IV system administrator, with fifteen years of experience, and I've helped build some of the biggest mail systems on the planet -- and various other related projects. Cool! I'm a Level 10 Paladin with 115 hit points! (ok, *now* I'm done) - Mark - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
My apologies for bringing it up at all!! I think the issue for the developers is theory vs. reality. What is the desired behaviour for the majority of new Mailman lists? Should not that be the default, with appropriate explanations? Personally I am very happy with Mailman, and I find most of the settings easy to understand and well documented. I'd like to think most folks who are new to Mailman will take as much time to learn it as I did, but what I see on this list suggests that this is less and less common. Yes I know what they say about making something idiot proof - but does mean one should ignore the situation completely. <>< Paul There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
At 3:23 PM -0800 2004/02/05, Will Yardley wrote: Not to mention a system administrator's worst nightmare... I am a SAGE Level IV system administrator, with fifteen years of experience, and I've helped build some of the biggest mail systems on the planet -- and various other related projects. I've also done a variety of invited talks at the largest industry conferences for system administrators. I am involved in the System Administrators Guild, and I plan on getting much more heavily involved. I have four Sun UltraSPARC 10 clones downstairs that will be used to support NTP development for FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and I may run Solaris on the fourth machine as a support system. I also have a four-processor dishwasher-size box with twelve SCSI hard drives and a hardware RAID controller that is going to be the main fileserver. Then there's an ancient Sun SPARC 4 clone and my wife's first laptop (Compaq Armada 4131T with a single 133MHz Pentium processor, 48MB of RAM, and a 10GB hard drive that I stuffed in). I've also got a nice little secure wireless network here in the house, with several access points and over a dozen different 802.11b, b/g, and a/b/g cards. And then there's the various hand-held computers, some with WiFi and GPS accessories, etc I am my own system administrator. -- Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+() DI+() D+(++) G+() e++> h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Re: Reply to list
On Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 02:45:16PM -0800, Mark Dadgar wrote: > On Feb 5, 2004, at 2:34 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > > I can go back through the 90's, into the mid-80's if length of time > >is the important criteria here. I have multiple gigabytes of e-mail > >on my current system, and untold gigabytes of e-mail archived off in > >one place or another. > > LOL! You are a defense attorney's worst nightmare! Not to mention a system administrator's worst nightmare... -- "Since when is skepticism un-American? Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same..." (Sleater-Kinney - "Combat Rock") -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Re: Reply-to list
"John Poltorak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Is there a way to set it as the default so that new list will be created > with this setting? Set in mm_cfg.py ... # Mailman can be configured to "munge" Reply-To: headers for any passing # messages. One the one hand, there are a lot of good reasons not to munge # Reply-To: but on the other, people really seem to want this feature. See # the help for reply_goes_to_list in the web UI for links discussing the # issue. # 0 - Reply-To: not munged # 1 - Reply-To: set back to the list # 2 - Reply-To: set to an explicit value (reply_to_address) DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1 -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
