[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

2023-07-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
Barry S. Finkel writes:

 > And I wanted to get support from Mark and this list, instead of
 > from Debian.  So, I figured out how to create a package from the
 > Mailman source.  This was on an older version of Mailman, but I
 > assume that my technique should work with the latest Mailman 2
 > source.  Contact me personally for details.  It is not complicated.

I second this method if you're not interested in keeping the source
tree around.  It keeps your system tidy, and I'm pretty sure most
distros (specifically Debian does) support a configuration to look in
a local package archive for packages before going out to the main
distro repos.  So do it each time you upgrade and you always have a
way to back out to the previous working system.

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

2023-07-19 Thread Barry S. Finkel 

On 7/19/2023 1:46 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Steven Jones writes:

  > I feel the same way, hence still running Mailman2 (on RHEL8). It is
  > simple and low CPU hit, however Red Hat stops it support in May
  > 2024.

That's fine with us.  Mailman 2 is pretty bulletproof and low-
maintenance from our point of view too.

  > Containers are really useful where done well but I tried 2 or
  > times to get mailman3 going on RHEL9 with podman and even docker
  > and failed.

Not sure what containers have to do with anything, to be honest.  In
any case, we don't really support containers AIUI.  Abhilash provides
multiple containers in a configuration that's convenient for him to
distribute, but the container environment isn't something we support,
nor can we.  A lot of people have difficulty configuring the network
with multiple containers.

I would recommend configuring everything (except perhaps the database)
in a single "host" (hardware, VM, or container), unless you're willing
to take on all that complexity.

  > I think Debian12 does mailman3? worth a go if so.  In my case I am
  > not allowed to run an unsupported OS and app.

Current Debian is pretty close to most recent release (maybe at this
point it is the most recent release).  But as you say, if you need a
supported OS, you're probably going to end up with a pretty old
version of Mailman.

Steve



As for the last paragraph - When I was a Mailman administrator some
years ago on an Ubuntu system, I was told that I had to install
Mailman from a package.  I looked at the Debian package, and I saw
patches that were undocumented, so I had no idea what they did.
And Debian, in one patch, deleted a library that is needed in some
situations.  And I wanted to get support from Mark and this list,
instead of from Debian.  So, I figured out how to create a package from
the Mailman source.  This was on an older version of Mailman, but I
assume that my technique should work with the latest Mailman 2 source.
Contact me personally for details.  It is not complicated.

--Barry Finkel

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

2023-07-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
Steven Jones writes:

 > I feel the same way, hence still running Mailman2 (on RHEL8). It is
 > simple and low CPU hit, however Red Hat stops it support in May
 > 2024.

That's fine with us.  Mailman 2 is pretty bulletproof and low-
maintenance from our point of view too.

 > Containers are really useful where done well but I tried 2 or
 > times to get mailman3 going on RHEL9 with podman and even docker
 > and failed.

Not sure what containers have to do with anything, to be honest.  In
any case, we don't really support containers AIUI.  Abhilash provides
multiple containers in a configuration that's convenient for him to
distribute, but the container environment isn't something we support,
nor can we.  A lot of people have difficulty configuring the network
with multiple containers.

I would recommend configuring everything (except perhaps the database)
in a single "host" (hardware, VM, or container), unless you're willing
to take on all that complexity.

 > I think Debian12 does mailman3? worth a go if so.  In my case I am
 > not allowed to run an unsupported OS and app.

Current Debian is pretty close to most recent release (maybe at this
point it is the most recent release).  But as you say, if you need a
supported OS, you're probably going to end up with a pretty old
version of Mailman.

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

2023-07-17 Thread dmitri maziuk 

On 2023-07-17 4:36 PM, Steven Jones wrote:

Hi,

I feel the same way, hence still running Mailman2 (on RHEL8). It is simple and 
low CPU hit, however Red Hat stops it support in May 2024.

Containers are really useful where done well but I tried 2 or  times to get 
mailman3 going on RHEL9 with podman and even docker and failed.



IIRC the main problem with running mailman2 in a container is the 
aliases file that needs to execute mailman commands. I think it should 
probably work by replacing mailman commands in there with `docker exec ...`


I'm not running unix servers anymore and have nowhere to give that a try 
myself. I'm sure there be tentacles there that I am not thinking of.


Dima


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

2023-07-17 Thread Steven Jones 
Hi,

I feel the same way, hence still running Mailman2 (on RHEL8). It is simple and 
low CPU hit, however Red Hat stops it support in May 2024.

Containers are really useful where done well but I tried 2 or  times to get 
mailman3 going on RHEL9 with podman and even docker and failed.

I think Debian12 does mailman3? worth a go if so.  In my case I am not allowed 
to run an unsupported OS and app.

regards

Steven


From: Mark Sapiro 
Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2023 6:57 am
To: mailman-users@python.org 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, 
please?

On 7/17/23 10:54, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:
>
> I used to use plain-ole mailman, WAY back in the '90s, BEFORE mailman2
> and LONG before mailman3... And I sure wish mailman2 had been done by
> people who had a sense for the challenges for normal non-developer
> system managers to deal with the software they actually developed. I'm
> sure it's fine if you're already a Django programmer and use
> "containers" all the time, but I'm not a Django fanboy, don't ever care
> to be, and think the idea of containers is inappropriate technology for
> a hell of a lot of use-cases, especially a small, self-run, no-budget
> installation.


I think you are referring to Mailman 3, not Mailman 2.


> So, I'm done with it and want to go back to the old stuff. I'll happily
> build from source, etc. But my simplistic web searches haven't returned
> results and I'm afraid I didn't keep great records about it back when
> since it was just a part of my Fedora package system!
>
> So, any pointers for this long-in-the-tooth Fedora Sys Admin?

If you want to install Mailman 2.1 from source, see
<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.python.org%2Farchives%2Flist%2Fmailman-announce%40python.org%2Fthread%2FD54X2LXETPMVP5KZNM2WP6Z6UOPJXSVD%2F&data=05%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7Cbb812fd72e0143a85ade08db86f7e174%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C0%7C638252171430413839%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=P2cl20IOycSfMs8I7HqQbhMZWxrZe734MsNQNwnL0QA%3D&reserved=0<https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-annou...@python.org/thread/D54X2LXETPMVP5KZNM2WP6Z6UOPJXSVD/>>
for various download locations. You can find the installation manual at
<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.list.org%2Fmailman-install%2Findex.html&data=05%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7Cbb812fd72e0143a85ade08db86f7e174%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C0%7C638252171430413839%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XszQZSnplhtIBsSH%2FLiPyVgsRwlNjDp546%2BEI%2B8z54w%3D&reserved=0<https://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>>.

You can also find tarballs for releases back to 1.0 at
<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fftp.gnu.org%2Fgnu%2Fmailman%2F&data=05%7C01%7Csteven.jones%40vuw.ac.nz%7Cbb812fd72e0143a85ade08db86f7e174%7Ccfe63e236951427e8683bb84dcf1d20c%7C0%7C0%7C638252171430413839%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IZ3ZrHx56%2FmSgSKMJ9kcvBk4iJQs0mVCWOrkVjduvTs%3D&reserved=0<https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/>>.

--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

2023-07-17 Thread Mark Sapiro 

On 7/17/23 10:54, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:


I used to use plain-ole mailman, WAY back in the '90s, BEFORE mailman2 
and LONG before mailman3... And I sure wish mailman2 had been done by 
people who had a sense for the challenges for normal non-developer 
system managers to deal with the software they actually developed. I'm 
sure it's fine if you're already a Django programmer and use 
"containers" all the time, but I'm not a Django fanboy, don't ever care 
to be, and think the idea of containers is inappropriate technology for 
a hell of a lot of use-cases, especially a small, self-run, no-budget 
installation.



I think you are referring to Mailman 3, not Mailman 2.


So, I'm done with it and want to go back to the old stuff. I'll happily 
build from source, etc. But my simplistic web searches haven't returned 
results and I'm afraid I didn't keep great records about it back when 
since it was just a part of my Fedora package system!


So, any pointers for this long-in-the-tooth Fedora Sys Admin?


If you want to install Mailman 2.1 from source, see 
 
for various download locations. You can find the installation manual at 
.


You can also find tarballs for releases back to 1.0 at 
.


--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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