Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mark Sapiro]

This is a follow-up on the original thread from last August which
resulted if the FAQ at .

I have tested the filter described in that FAQ and I find that it only
appears to work. What it does is place a copy of your sent message in
your inbox as you send it so it appears that you have received your post
from the list, but the message in your inbox is a copy of your sent
message, it is not the message received from the list. It has none of
the headers or other list transformation that the message from the list
would have.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Stephen J. Turnbull writes:
 > David Andrews writes:
 > 
 >  > Are they screen shots or something???
 > 
 > It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
 > it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
 > the weekend.

As promised, here's the link to the new FAQ.

https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20don%27t%20get%20my%20own%20posts

I didn't have the energy to test, sorry.  Comments are welcome,
especially those based on trying it out!

Steve

-- 
Associate Professor  Division of Policy and Planning Science
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information
Email: turnb...@sk.tsukuba.ac.jp   University of Tsukuba
Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mike Flannigan]

No objection, but it really isn't necessary.
It's not my content, so I should probably
not be credited.


Mike


On 8/23/2018 7:32 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

David Andrews writes:

  > Are they screen shots or something???

It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
the weekend.

Many thanks to Mike for the link to
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
This is something we've wanted forever.

Mike: we try to credit contributors in the FAQ.  Do you have any
objection to a "Contributed by Mike Flannigan" or similar?

Steve



--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

David Andrews writes:

 > Are they screen shots or something???

It's a very busy day so this is all you get now, but if nobody gets to
it before I do I will test, add to FAQ *as text*, and post a link over
the weekend.

Many thanks to Mike for the link to
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
This is something we've wanted forever.

Mike: we try to credit contributors in the FAQ.  Do you have any
objection to a "Contributed by Mike Flannigan" or similar?

Steve
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Keith Seyffarth]

>>For gmail, this is the fix:
>>http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm
>>
>>Users must do this.
>
>
> Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link, 
> just separators and dashes.  I am blind and a screen reader user.

Yeah, it's screen shots of what to click on in the Google GMail
interface, with some instructions painted on the images.

What it does is instructs the user to create a rule to not mark email
that comes from the user as spam.

-- 

from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:w...@weif.net
http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide!
http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar

http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mike Flannigan]

Yes.  They are graphical pictures.
I did not create that webpage.
Just passing it along for others.

Basically is says to put Rootsweb in your
filters to accept messages.


Mike



On 8/22/2018 8:19 PM, David Andrews wrote:


Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link, 
just separators and dashes.  I am blind and a screen reader user.


Dave





--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[David Andrews]

At 06:30 AM 8/22/2018, Mike Flannigan wrote:


For gmail, this is the fix:
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm

Users must do this.



Are they screen shots or something??? I got nothing out of the link, 
just separators and dashes.  I am blind and a screen reader user.


Dave


--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Mike Flannigan]

For gmail, this is the fix:
http://www.woodworth-ancestors.com/fix-gmail-problem-rootsweb/index.htm

Users must do this.


Mike


On 8/21/2018 11:00 AM, mailman-users-requ...@python.org wrote:



Hi all,
Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't 
seeing messages they post to my lists.

Someone sent me the below link.
If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?

https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.

TIA.


--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Yasuhito FUTATSUKI]

On 08/21/18 22:54, Robert Heller wrote:

At Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:06:04 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
 wrote:



Adam Morris writes:

  > Someone sent me the below link.
  > If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
  >
  > https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.

If I understand what you want correctly, this is possible and
controlled by the subscriber's "ack" option.


I think the OP might be wondering if *mailman* can implement the
"Misc-Options= NEW_MESSAGE_ID" hack available with LISTSERV 16.0-2017a...


Putting aside that it is useful or harmful, there is a change set to do it,
in tkikuchi's branch. Perhaps it can be applied against 2.1.29.

https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tkikuchi/mailman/2.1-japan/revision/1346

--
Yasuhito FUTATSUKI 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users writes:

 > Or they could check out list archives and see if their message is
 > there.

Of course that's an option, if the list is archived (may not be), but
pretty clearly the subscribers in this case at least want a "push"
notification (ack in their inbox), and most likely to get the mail in
the usual way.

Similarly, if they just want to be reminded of the content, they can
go to the Sent folder.  Again, the tone of the OP and the link he
provided strongly suggests that's not the issue.

I hate having to say "the requested change is non-RFC-conforming, and
there are good reasons for the rule", but that's the way this one
rolls.  Even so, it's important to think carefully about what the
issue is really talking about rather than just looking for a minimum
change path.  (Minimizing changes is also a goal, for various reasons.)

Steve

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On 08/21/2018 06:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> I'm sorry not to be of more help, but I think it's likely that the
> best we will offer are the digest option and the "ack" functionality
> so that users will know the mailing list received the message.

Or they could check out list archives and see if their message is there.

-- 
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Adam Morris writes:

 > What I'm saying is that if a member posts a message they don't see
 > it at all even though all other members do.

This is a familiar problem with GMail, and with sites that delegate
their email handling to Google.  Google refuses to change it or
provide a user option to control it.  It's really not our problem.
The logic to deal with this sanely has been well-known since before I
started using email heavily (around 1985), but it can only be
implemented by the receiver, not by the mailing list or the author.
Google got it wrong and has doubled down on their bug.

If there were something we could do to mitigate the problem without
causing other problems, yes, we'd be happy to do that.  Unfortunately,
there's nothing riskless that we can do about it.  Changing the
Message-ID is non-conformant to Internet standards, and it means that
two messages that are for almost all intents and purposes[1] the same
message will be treated as separate messages.  There are several ways
this can happen to real mail, and it's very annoying if it happens a
lot.  It would then be our responsibility to address that, because we
broke the rules and thereby broke people's mail streams.

There is one case where the receiver legitimately "sees" a different
Message-ID from the original, and that is when the message is
"wrapped" in a digest or a MIME forward.  If this is useful to the
subscriber, they can select digest mode in their options page.  If the
purpose is to be sure the message reached the list, then the "ack"
option can perform that function.

In theory we could offer a per-message "wrap-mine" user option (rather
than multiple-message digest) to avoid delays waiting for the daily
digest delivery time.  The functionality for wrapping messages is
already implemented, but triggered by a list setting and the DMARC
policy of the sender ISP, rather than a subscriber option.  However,
no MUA I know of handles wrapped messages well, and some can't do
anything useful with wrapped messages at all.  That would require some
discussion to add to the code base, although we could provide a patch
to be applied by users for testing purposes.

I'm sorry not to be of more help, but I think it's likely that the
best we will offer are the digest option and the "ack" functionality
so that users will know the mailing list received the message.

Steve


Footnotes: 
[1]  The only functions the list message message performs that the
original in the Sent folder does not are (1) confirmation that the
list received and resent the message, (2) getting the list's
post-varying text (eg, message sequence number), and (3) checking the
trace headers added by the list.  (1) is satisfied by the "ack"
option, (2) by the "digest" option, and (3) is extremely specialized.

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Robert Heller]

At Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:06:04 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
 wrote:

> 
> Adam Morris writes:
> 
>  > Someone sent me the below link.
>  > If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>  > 
>  > https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
> 
> If I understand what you want correctly, this is possible and
> controlled by the subscriber's "ack" option.

I think the OP might be wondering if *mailman* can implement the 
"Misc-Options= NEW_MESSAGE_ID" hack available with LISTSERV 16.0-2017a...

> 
> You almost certainly don't want to implement it listwide.
> Acknowledgment messages are just an annoyance if you are also getting
> the message.  And perhaps even if you aren't.
> 
> Individual subscribers can go to their options page, and set the "ack"
> option.  I am not sure if this subscriber option is *enabled by* or
> *overrides* the Autoresponder Settings -> autorespond_postings option
> for the list administrator, or if it's independent.  Somebody else may
> fill in the blank, or you can experiment with your own account (you
> don't need to have the original message display suppressed to see if
> the acknowledgment is sent and if it has the content you want it to
> show the subscribers).
> 
> If you're pretty sure that most of the subscribers at that ISP want
> the setting, you as admin can do it from the Membership Management ->
> Membership List page.  Again I recommend doing it only for users who
> are likely to be experiencing the issue, and perhaps only those who
> raised it.
> 
> Steve
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com
> 
>   
> 

-- 
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services
  
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Richard Damon]

On 8/20/18 11:15 PM, Adam Morris wrote:
> Hi all,
> Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't
> seeing messages they post to my lists.
> Someone sent me the below link.
> If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
>
> https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.
>
> TIA.
>
>
There is a list option, "Receive your own post to list" which if turned
off, the list will not send you back copies of your own message.

If your subscribers use gmail (either directly or as a google service)
then they are running into a gmail 'feature' of duplicate message
suppression, where gmail will only show/keep one copy of a message, and
for your own messages to a mailing list, that is the message that was
sent to the list. This is the issue that your link comments on, and as
far as I know, Mailman doesn't support that sort of option, and changing
message IDs as this option describes actually can cause a lot of
'damage' to the mail system.

-- 
Richard Damon

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Adam Morris]

What I'm saying is that if a member posts a message they don't see it at 
all even though all other members do.



On 08/21/2018 13:15, Adam Morris wrote:

Hi all,
Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't 
seeing messages they post to my lists.

Someone sent me the below link.
If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?

https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.

TIA.




--

Adam Morris
Jaws certified 2016
Email, iMessage & FaceTime
a...@damorris.com

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

[Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Adam Morris writes:

 > Someone sent me the below link.
 > If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?
 > 
 > https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.

If I understand what you want correctly, this is possible and
controlled by the subscriber's "ack" option.

You almost certainly don't want to implement it listwide.
Acknowledgment messages are just an annoyance if you are also getting
the message.  And perhaps even if you aren't.

Individual subscribers can go to their options page, and set the "ack"
option.  I am not sure if this subscriber option is *enabled by* or
*overrides* the Autoresponder Settings -> autorespond_postings option
for the list administrator, or if it's independent.  Somebody else may
fill in the blank, or you can experiment with your own account (you
don't need to have the original message display suppressed to see if
the acknowledgment is sent and if it has the content you want it to
show the subscribers).

If you're pretty sure that most of the subscribers at that ISP want
the setting, you as admin can do it from the Membership Management ->
Membership List page.  Again I recommend doing it only for users who
are likely to be experiencing the issue, and perhaps only those who
raised it.

Steve
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

[Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own messages.

[Adam Morris]

Hi all,
Members of lists I run that are all from a particular ISP aren't seeing 
messages they post to my lists.

Someone sent me the below link.
If this can be implemented by me on my lists how can I do it?

https://www.lsoft.com/news/techtipLSV-issue2-2017.asp.

TIA.


--

Adam Morris
Jaws certified 2016
Email, iMessage & FaceTime
a...@damorris.com

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org