Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 12:16 PM, David Andrews dandr...@visi.com wrote: Remember that top posting isn't the evil thing that some of you think it is, Don't jump to conclusions: http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Teach/IntroSES/socsys-8.html The question is, why was there a problem, and it turns out not to have anything to do with *repeated* footers. It turns out the the real problem is that the quoted footers *vary*, in particular containing private information of other members. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 12:17 PM, David Andrews dandr...@visi.com wrote: I run about 200 lists that serve the blind community, and we tend to prefer top posting. That makes sense. T. V. Raman top-posts even on Emacs lists. It is easier to find the new content. So getting rid of footers in chains where people reply, and reply to that ... would be great, if possible. I would guess that blind people develop better memories, to reduce the cost of back references. If so, maybe it would be better (on balance) to not include previous messages at all (by default). Have you tried that? it would also be nice if digests had some kind of navigation between original messages. A decent MUA allows you to treat a digest as a folder, or as a mail spool (so that you can read messages from it into your inbox. If that would not be good enough, I wonder what you need. If it would be good enough, I think you should talk to the maintainers of your users' MUAs to make the digest-as-folder feature available and accessible. It's not hard to implement, and it would g Dave -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
Oops, premature send, stupid touchpad. Continuing. On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 12:17 PM, David Andrews dandr...@visi.com wrote: it would also be nice if digests had some kind of navigation between original messages. A decent MUA allows you to treat a digest as a folder, or as a mail spool (so that you can read messages from it into your inbox). [...] It's not hard to implement, and it would guarantee that users can use the navigation features they're already used to. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 1:06 PM, David d...@fiteyes.com wrote:
The main issue is that we include a personalized instant unsubscribe link
in the footer, no password required. Our users seem to really want/need
this.
Aha. Now this all makes sense.
An alternative to requiring a password is to require confirmation via
their email address. This does have the very undesirable feature that
users can still really annoy others by banging on their unsubscribe
link, thus resulting in spam to the targeted user. But if it's not
deliberate harassment, this might help. (It would also be possible,
but I suspect it's unimplemented, to refuse to send more than one
unsubscribe confirmation per time period.)
Remove me from this list:
%(user_optionsurl)s?unsub=1unsubconfirm=1password=%(user_password)s
Ouch ... this presents a lot of opportunity for harrassment, since the
user's password will be sent around in clear.
I can probably find a good regex that will recognize a URL and I can tailor
that to match only URLs like the above. Given that, is there a custom
module that is built to apply regular expressions for search/replace? I
don't know Python. (But I would love to learn it when time permits.)
import re
cre = re.compile(r'some regex|other')
result = cre.sub('', 'A string containing some other')
print result
'A string containing '
The idiom is a little unintuitive; there is also a function re.sub you could use
result = re.sub(r'some regex|other', '', 'A string containing some other')
which gives the same result, marginally less efficiently. (It used to
be that the regular expression was compiled fairly frequently if you
used the same regexp repeatedly, but now a fairly large number of
compiled regular expressions are cached, so the overhead is limited to
finding the right compiled regexp.)
For URLs in particular, you might want to look at the urlparse module.
I don't remember how it's implemented but there's probably a regexp
for URLs in the source.
Using that template for my purposes would require much more than changing a
couple lines of code, so I don't think I can adapt/use it. I'm hoping
someone has already created a handler for the purpose of doing a
regex-based search/replace. Searching Google on mailman search replace
module OR handler didn't turn up anything, however.
Do you understand how Handlers work? What you do is put the code that
Mark suggested in a separate file in the Handlers directory, figure
out where you want the Handler to run, and then put
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(position, 'ExcessFooterTrimmer')
in mm_cfg.py.
It's also possible to do this per list (eg, for testing on a single
list) by creating the Handler file, and instead of using the
GLOBAL_PIPELINE above, use
$ cd /var/lib/mailman # or whereever mailman's library code is
$ bin/withlist -i test-list
m.lock()
m.pipeline = GLOBAL_PIPELINE
m.pipeline.insert(position, 'ExcessFooterTrimmer')
m.save()
quit()
$
If that sounds more reasonable, feel free to ask for more detailed and
accurate information (I'm just going off the top of my head here, but
the kind and amount of work involved is correct).
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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
At 11:06 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.orgwrote: On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:56 AM, David d...@fiteyes.com wrote: I would think this is a common request, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere. Does this actually bother your users? IME lists where this is a problem, it's a much smaller problem than top-posting itself, and the users aren't going to notice because they don't read any of the included content anyway. I suspect that's why nobody (that I can remember) has ever asked for this before. Remember that top posting isn't the evil thing that some of you think it is, in some communities. There are legitimate reasons for doing it, just like there are for bottom posting -- but you wouldn't know that in the Linux world. Dave -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
At 03:56 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote: I'm not sure what you call the long tail of footers that accumulates on messages, but I would like to eliminate all prior footers (from the same list). When the new reply goes out, it should include only one footer. BTW, we're using full personalization and one link in the footer is like this: %(user_optionsurl)s We could wrap the footer in a tag of some type if that would help. Any suggestions? I would think this is a common request, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere. I would love, love, love a feature that would eliminate the trail of footers from a replied-to list message. I run about 200 lists that serve the blind community, and we tend to prefer top posting. It is easier to find the new content. So getting rid of footers in chains where people reply, and reply to that ... would be great, if possible.. It would also clean up digests some, it would also be nice if digests had some kind of navigation between original messages. Dave -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
I'm not sure what you call the long tail of footers that accumulates on messages, but I would like to eliminate all prior footers (from the same list). When the new reply goes out, it should include only one footer. BTW, we're using full personalization and one link in the footer is like this: %(user_optionsurl)s We could wrap the footer in a tag of some type if that would help. Any suggestions? I would think this is a common request, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere. Regards, Dave -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:56 AM, David d...@fiteyes.com wrote: I'm not sure what you call the long tail of footers that accumulates on messages, Collateral damage from MUAs That Only A Professional Programmer Who Hates His Job (And His Users) Could Love[tm]. Because of the potential for damaging author's content, this really should be handled by the author's MUA, but the only ones I know of that do are based on Emacs, which sort of rules out usage by all but a miniscule fraction of the user population. but I would like to eliminate all prior footers (from the same list). As Mark points out, this is hard to do well, and impossible to do right (where we define right to mean cannot possibly damage the author's intended content). However, the code he suggests should do very well (up to 100% for lists where top-posting is the rule, at least if you're able and willing to look at any posts where it doesn't work and tweak the regexps a bit). If users are really bothered by it, Gmail does a very good job of eliding quoted content, including footers. (A user has to be pretty bothered to even think about changing his MUA, of course. But it's possible some are looking for alternatives anyway.) I would think this is a common request, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere. Does this actually bother your users? IME lists where this is a problem, it's a much smaller problem than top-posting itself, and the users aren't going to notice because they don't read any of the included content anyway. I suspect that's why nobody (that I can remember) has ever asked for this before. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple footers accumulating on messages as discussion progresses - how to eliminate all but the last mailman footer?
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.orgwrote: On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:56 AM, David d...@fiteyes.com wrote: I would think this is a common request, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere. Does this actually bother your users? IME lists where this is a problem, it's a much smaller problem than top-posting itself, and the users aren't going to notice because they don't read any of the included content anyway. I suspect that's why nobody (that I can remember) has ever asked for this before. Stephen and Mark - you guys have given me a lot of good advice. I appreciate it. Maybe I can narrow my problem and find a better solution without the challenges of a general solution. The main issue is that we include a personalized instant unsubscribe link in the footer, no password required. Our users seem to really want/need this. Many times they cannot unsubscribe themselves with any other method we have tried. However, we did not initially consider that any one person can easily unsubscribe another person in the thread because of the accumulated footers. Here are our current personalized footers: %(real_name)s mailing list Reply to: %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s Your settings: %(user_optionsurl)s Remove me from this list: %(user_optionsurl)s?unsub=1unsubconfirm=1password=%(user_password)s It would probably be satisfactory to remove any url containing the string unsubconfirm. Removing the user's user_optionsurl link would be nice, but not as absolutely necessary. I can probably find a good regex that will recognize a URL and I can tailor that to match only URLs like the above. Given that, is there a custom module that is built to apply regular expressions for search/replace? I don't know Python. (But I would love to learn it when time permits.) I reviewed http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030615. Coding the handler module itself requires some knowledge of Python and Mailman and won't be discussed further here except that there is a simple template/example at MyHandler.pyhttp://wiki.list.org/download/attachments/4030615/MyHandler.py?version=1modificationDate=1283485784289 . Using that template for my purposes would require much more than changing a couple lines of code, so I don't think I can adapt/use it. I'm hoping someone has already created a handler for the purpose of doing a regex-based search/replace. Searching Google on mailman search replace module OR handler didn't turn up anything, however. Regards, David -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
