Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 19:58:25 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>I'm talking about the Gmane address that is subscribed to your list, >>not some address that happened to be in the From: header of the >>particular message. > >Ah ! Gmane's subscription address ? If I put the mod flag on that then >every poster would effectively be "moderated" wouldn't they ? > >Though your next paragraph suggests that that wouldn't happen. Given what you've said about your list configuration, if you set the mod flag on the Gmane subscription address and not on your actual list members you should see that posts via Gmane From: a list member will go directly to the list but posts via Gmane from a non-list-member will be held for moderation. This is because, at least in a default Mailman installation, we look first at the From: header in deciding if the post is from a member and next at the envelope sender. In the case of a member post via Gmane, the From: will have a member address and we will see this as a post from that (unmoderated) member. In the case of a non-member post via Gmane, the From: address will not be a member so we look at the envelope sender which is a member and which now is moderated so the post is held for moderation. >>What you need to do is go to the web admin Membership List pages for >>your list and find the Gmane address that is a member of your list and >>make sure its "mod" box is checked. That way, any "non-member" posts >>from Gmane, regardless of who they are From: should be held for >>moderation and you can accept them or not as you see fit. > >Okay, so I put the Gmane subscription address as "mod" ? I think that will accomplish what you want. Note that if the only "mod" address is the Gmane address, you can if you wish set Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_moderation_action to Reject and set member_moderation_notice to something like "Posting to this email list via Gmane is restricted to members of the list." The downside of doing this is "backscatter". I.e. if a spammer posts to your list via Gmane, the From: header probably contains the address of an innocent third party so you don't really want to reject the spam back to the innocent person who knows nothing about it. I would be more inclined to set member_moderation_action to either Hold or Discard, and if Hold, to Discard held messages that I didn't want to accept unless they clearly weren't spam. >>You said in your original post that your list was "moderated". What >>does that mean to you? > >It means that people not on my mailing list should not be able to have >emails go to the mailing list or the Gmane newsgroup. Aaahh.. To me, that is a "closed" list whereas a "moderated" list is one where all posts require approval by a moderator. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 19:58:25 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >Yes, but what happened to the post? Did it go directly to the list or It went to the mailing list and the Gmane newsgroup without me seeing it first. >was it held for moderator action for some reason? If the latter, for >what reason? >>>If it just went to the list >>>and you want it to be held, just set the mod flag on the subscribed >>>Gmane address and it will be held as a post from a moderated member. >>It doesn't appear to be a subscribed address. >I'm talking about the Gmane address that is subscribed to your list, >not some address that happened to be in the From: header of the >particular message. Ah ! Gmane's subscription address ? If I put the mod flag on that then every poster would effectively be "moderated" wouldn't they ? Though your next paragraph suggests that that wouldn't happen. < snip > >What you need to do is go to the web admin Membership List pages for >your list and find the Gmane address that is a member of your list and >make sure its "mod" box is checked. That way, any "non-member" posts >from Gmane, regardless of who they are From: should be held for >moderation and you can accept them or not as you see fit. Okay, so I put the Gmane subscription address as "mod" ? >You said in your original post that your list was "moderated". What >does that mean to you? It means that people not on my mailing list should not be able to have emails go to the mailing list or the Gmane newsgroup. >Does it mean all the member's "mod" boxes are >checked No. >and Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> >default_member_moderation is set to Yes so that new members are also >have their mod boxes checked by default, or does it mean something >else? default_member_moderation is set to "No". I assumed that the "new list member postings" are those people I have okayed to join the mailing list. >Also, what do you mean by "registered" posters? Is this just the >list membership, or is it something else? If I knew exactly, I might >be able to suggest other things. The list membership. Thank you for your help, and explanation. It is slowly making sense to me. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
John Fitzsimons wrote: >On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 19:18:53 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >>They are telling you that there is a Gmane address which is a member of >>your list that is how gmane receives messages posted to your list. > >Well, I know that that is how it is meant to work BUT the post I asked >about shows a "from" address like some...@tormail.net . My mailing >list doesn't have anyone with that address on it. We are not talking here about the From: header in the message. See below. >>When someone posts to your list on Gmane, Gmane sends that post to >>your list with the envelope sender (SMTP MAIL FROM address) equal to >>the Gmane address that's a member of your list. > >That doesn't appear to be happening. Again, see below. [...] >>It is not clear to me whether this post was held as a post from a >>moderated member or just went to the list. > >He/she doesn't appear to be a member at all. Yes, but what happened to the post? Did it go directly to the list or was it held for moderator action for some reason? If the latter, for what reason? >>If it just went to the list >>and you want it to be held, just set the mod flag on the subscribed >>Gmane address and it will be held as a post from a moderated member. > >It doesn't appear to be a subscribed address. I'm talking about the Gmane address that is subscribed to your list, not some address that happened to be in the From: header of the particular message. [...] >The problem is that this is on a hosted site so I cannot change the >main Mailman files. OK. >IF I understand things correctly you/Gmane seem to be saying that >somewhere in the envelope header is the address of someone on my list. >Not necessarily in the 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' areas. > >Is that correct ? Yes. >In any case what does "envelope header" mean ? Does it mean in the >sender's header in areas other than 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' ? Imagine for a moment that you are sending a letter by postal mail. The letter is typed on your stationery which has your name and address at the top, and you type the recipient's name and address and the date below that, and then type your message. Your name and address on the paper are analogous to the From: header in an email message. The recipient's name and address and the date on the paper are analogous to the To: and Date: headers in an email message, and the message that you type following these is analogous to the body of an email message. The other headers you may see at the top of an email message are not analogous to things in this paper mail example, but they aren't what we're talking about. The paper letter and the email message are analogous in another way. Neither of them go anywhere until you put them in an envelope and mail them. Just as in the paper postal mail case, the email is sent "in" an envelope and the envelope has a recipient address which may or may not be the same as the To: address in the message and a from or return address which may or may not be the same as the From: address in the message. In the email case, this return address is called the envelope sender. What I and Gmane are telling you is that the envelope sender address is the Gmane address that is a member of your list. As a user or admin of your list, you don't see the envelope that the message came in, you only see the message. If the message should be held for approval, the moderator may see the envelope sender reflected in a Return-Path: header in the admindb moderator interface, but generally, by the time the message is delivered to the list members, any envelope information from the original, incoming message is gone because the message is put in a new envelope to be delivered to the list members. >In any case it looks like changing things in the SENDER_HEADERS in >mm_cfg.py will enable me to better restrict posters to those on my >"registered" posters list and/or make it so that posters have to put >their "approved" address in eg. the 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' >slots, so to speak. > >So can I make this change via my GUI in Windows XP ? No, you can't make that change through the Mailman web UI. What you need to do is go to the web admin Membership List pages for your list and find the Gmane address that is a member of your list and make sure its "mod" box is checked. That way, any "non-member" posts from Gmane, regardless of who they are From: should be held for moderation and you can accept them or not as you see fit. You said in your original post that your list was "moderated". What does that mean to you? Does it mean all the member's "mod" boxes are checked and Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> default_member_moderation is set to Yes so that new members are also have their mod boxes checked by default, or does it mean something else? Also, what do you mean by "registered" posters? Is this just the list membership, or is it something else? If I knew exactly, I might be able to suggest other things.
Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 19:18:53 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>John Fitzsimons wrote:
Hi Mark, thank you for your speedy/detailed reply. :-)
>>"When Gmane sends messages (posted through the news-to-mail gateway)
>>to
>>the mailing lists, it uses the subscribed email address as the MAIL
>>FROM
>>envelope header. If your mailing list software discriminates based
>>on
>>the MAIL FROM instead of the From: header (the latter is more usual),
>>then you may see stuff like that..."
>They are telling you that there is a Gmane address which is a member of
>your list that is how gmane receives messages posted to your list.
Well, I know that that is how it is meant to work BUT the post I asked
about shows a "from" address like some...@tormail.net . My mailing
list doesn't have anyone with that address on it.
>When someone posts to your list on Gmane, Gmane sends that post to
>your list with the envelope sender (SMTP MAIL FROM address) equal to
>the Gmane address that's a member of your list.
That doesn't appear to be happening.
>Mailman in turn checks every address found in any of the places listed
>in the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting SENDER_HEADERS, and if any of
>these is a list member, the is considered to be from first member
>address found.
Well, I don't know how it can find an address that doesn't appear to
be there. :-(
>It is not clear to me whether this post was held as a post from a
>moderated member or just went to the list.
He/she doesn't appear to be a member at all.
>If it just went to the list
>and you want it to be held, just set the mod flag on the subscribed
>Gmane address and it will be held as a post from a moderated member.
It doesn't appear to be a subscribed address.
>If, on the other hand, you want it treated as a non-member post, you
>have to override SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py. The default setting is
>SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
>which says places checked in order are the From: header, the envelope
>sender, the Reply-To: header and the Sender: header. The None entry in
>the above list refers to the envelope sender. If you just want to stop
>considering the envelope sender and keep all the others, you would set
>SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')
>in mm_cfg.py. If you wanted to consider only the From: header, you
>could set
>SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', )
>in mm_cfg.py (the comma and parens are significant here).
>Note that this is a global setting and affects all lists in the
>installation.
The problem is that this is on a hosted site so I cannot change the
main Mailman files.
IF I understand things correctly you/Gmane seem to be saying that
somewhere in the envelope header is the address of someone on my list.
Not necessarily in the 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' areas.
Is that correct ?
In any case what does "envelope header" mean ? Does it mean in the
sender's header in areas other than 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' ?
In any case it looks like changing things in the SENDER_HEADERS in
mm_cfg.py will enable me to better restrict posters to those on my
"registered" posters list and/or make it so that posters have to put
their "approved" address in eg. the 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender'
slots, so to speak.
So can I make this change via my GUI in Windows XP ?
If you/anyone else here can give me an answer to this question, and
give me a "step by step" as to how to change things via windows, it
will be appreciated.
Regards, John.
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
John Fitzsimons wrote:
>
>"When Gmane sends messages (posted through the news-to-mail gateway)
>to
>the mailing lists, it uses the subscribed email address as the MAIL
>FROM
>envelope header. If your mailing list software discriminates based
>on
>the MAIL FROM instead of the From: header (the latter is more usual),
>then you may see stuff like that..."
They are telling you that there is a Gmane address which is a member of
your list that is how gmane receives messages posted to your list.
When someone posts to your list on Gmane, Gmane sends that post to
your list with the envelope sender (SMTP MAIL FROM address) equal to
the Gmane address that's a member of your list.
Mailman in turn checks every address found in any of the places listed
in the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting SENDER_HEADERS, and if any of
these is a list member, the is considered to be from first member
address found.
It is not clear to me whether this post was held as a post from a
moderated member or just went to the list. If it just went to the list
and you want it to be held, just set the mod flag on the subscribed
Gmane address and it will be held as a post from a moderated member.
If, on the other hand, you want it treated as a non-member post, you
have to override SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py. The default setting is
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
which says places checked in order are the From: header, the envelope
sender, the Reply-To: header and the Sender: header. The None entry in
the above list refers to the envelope sender. If you just want to stop
considering the envelope sender and keep all the others, you would set
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')
in mm_cfg.py. If you wanted to consider only the From: header, you
could set
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', )
in mm_cfg.py (the comma and parens are significant here).
Note that this is a global setting and affects all lists in the
installation.
--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Unsubscribe:
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