Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slowperformance..suggestions please?!?

[Richard Barrett]

On Monday, August 25, 2003, at 02:28  pm, Andrew Falgout wrote:

The error log is at 0 bytes.  I have not overridden the Defaults.py  
which
shows Defaults.py:MTA_ALIASES_STYLE = 'sendmail'.  So I assume that  
means
that sendmail is the MTA.
You will be using SMTP to the local MTA (which you say is Sendmail) if  
the following MM config variables are set as follows in either  
mm_cfg.py or the Defaults.py file. The following are th standard MM  
2.0.13 default values:

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
Also are the following default values still in place:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500
MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0
Aug 25 08:08:31 2003 (27798) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 1.045  
seconds
Aug 25 08:08:31 2003 (27798) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 1.149  
seconds
Aug 25 08:12:47 2003 (27798) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.208  
seconds
Aug 25 08:12:47 2003 (27798) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.241  
seconds
Aug 25 08:14:25 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.701  
seconds
Aug 25 08:14:25 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.716  
seconds
Aug 25 08:17:21 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.167  
seconds
Aug 25 08:17:21 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.179  
seconds
Aug 25 08:19:34 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 3.962  
seconds
Aug 25 08:19:34 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 4.234  
seconds

This is just a few of the lines in my /var/log/mailman/smtp file.   
There are
a few bounces from time to time, but not on great frequency.  I did  
send an
email to a test list, and attempted to time when I would see my email
address in the post log, but after 10 minutes I have not seen it.  This
really confuses me, because the mail system on this server delivers  
mail
directly to a mailbox in seconds.  Why the delay?

I am going to assume that you had not made the edit to  
$prefix/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py I suggested in one of my  
response and that these log entries are the regular ones?

Bear in mind that the number in brackets in these log entries - (27798)  
for instance - is the process id of the qurnner handling the message  
and the same qrunner is handling multiple messages.

The smtp log entries are interesting if you have a large backlog of  
messages in the qfiles directory because:

1. only a few recipients are being delivered for each log entry. Are  
your mailing list that sparely populated for subscribers? Do these smtp  
log entries tie in with post entries for lists with few members and  
/var/log/mail entries for outgoing mail through the MTA?

2. quite long periods - 2, 3, 4 minutes in the sample log entries you  
give - elapse between log entries. But the log entries are for the same  
process so it has been continuing to run during these pregnant pauses.  
But what is it doing?

Some thoughts. Mailman's qrunner can get slow if it is:

a. archiving and

b. the messages for a list are large messages and/or

c.  the number of messages in the current archive of a list is large.

On the other hand, the pregnant pauses could be because MM is  
encountering long delays when opening SMTP connections to the MTA.

What sort of shape are the traffic/lists that MM is handling.

If you can catch the qrunner at it then maybe strace will give you some  
idea of what is doing: waiting on a socket open to the MTA maybe.

Another possibility is if by some means a bunch of lists have got  
orphaned locks over them so that the qrunner is spinning its wheels  
trying to find a list it can operate on. Does anything indicative of  
this show up in the $prefix/locks directory.

- Original Message -
From: "Richard Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Andrew Falgout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slow
performance..suggestions please?!?

On Sunday, August 24, 2003, at 12:51  am, Andrew Falgout wrote:

I'm currently running mailman-2.0.13-1 eith sendmail-8.11.6-25.72.
Posts
are processed very fast, but delivery is more than slow.  It takes  
1-2
minutes per post to delivery mail.  Evaluating what is going on in  
the
queue is a little more than cumbersome.  Over the course of 3-4 days
mails
have been piling up in the qfiles directory to the tune of 4000 mails
and
waiting.  There are mails 3 days old waiting to go out.  I'm looking
for
ways to evaluate what is in the queue, why it's in the queue, and how
to
tell qrunner to report more information on what it's thinking.  Like
perhaps the msgid of the email it's trying to process at this time.

Are you using the local sendmail instance as the outgoing SMTP server?

Regardless, what do the Mailman post, smtp and smtp-failure logs show
about mail being handled by the system. How does this tie in with the
MTA's mail log.
If your outgoing mail is being handled by the local sendmail MTA then  
I
would normally expect Mailman to handoff to the MTA without much  
delay.
If MM i

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slowperformance..suggestions please?!?

[Jon Carnes]

The description of the problem fits right in with the primary DNS
resolver not working and the server having to fall back to the secondary
for each look up.

That might not be your problem, but in anycase, you should run a
local-caching Nameserver on your mailserver. Then check to see how long
it takes to do dns lookups:
  host -t mx some.host.com
  dig -t mx some.host.com

The "dig" command will tell you how long it took to get the dns
information.  The "host" command will simply give you the information
you requested - which in this case is a listing of the Mailservers for
the domain some.host.com

You might also want to tweak your sendmail configuration:
http://www.trilug.org/~jonc/mailserver/PartIII.html

BTW: the many MTA's use the "sendmail aliases style", the fact that
Mailman is using it to communicate with your MTA does not insure that
you are using Sendmail as your MTA.

To find out which MTA you are using:
  telnet localhost 25

Read the header it displays.  It should indicate what service is acting
as your MTA. As an example, here is what I get:
 220 Anncons4.nc.rr.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.8/8.12.8; Mon, 25 Aug 2003
10:07:09 -0400

As you can see, I'm running Sendmail on this particular server.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 09:28, Andrew Falgout wrote:
> The error log is at 0 bytes.  I have not overridden the Defaults.py which
> shows Defaults.py:MTA_ALIASES_STYLE = 'sendmail'.  So I assume that means
> that sendmail is the MTA.
> 
> Aug 25 08:08:31 2003 (27798) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 1.045 seconds
> Aug 25 08:08:31 2003 (27798) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 1.149 seconds
> Aug 25 08:12:47 2003 (27798) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.208 seconds
> Aug 25 08:12:47 2003 (27798) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.241 seconds
> Aug 25 08:14:25 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.701 seconds
> Aug 25 08:14:25 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.716 seconds
> Aug 25 08:17:21 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.167 seconds
> Aug 25 08:17:21 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.179 seconds
> Aug 25 08:19:34 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 3.962 seconds
> Aug 25 08:19:34 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 4.234 seconds
> 
> This is just a few of the lines in my /var/log/mailman/smtp file.  There are
> a few bounces from time to time, but not on great frequency.  I did send an
> email to a test list, and attempted to time when I would see my email
> address in the post log, but after 10 minutes I have not seen it.  This
> really confuses me, because the mail system on this server delivers mail
> directly to a mailbox in seconds.  Why the delay?
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Richard Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Andrew Falgout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slow
> performance..suggestions please?!?
> 
> 
> >
> > On Sunday, August 24, 2003, at 12:51  am, Andrew Falgout wrote:
> >
> > > I'm currently running mailman-2.0.13-1 eith sendmail-8.11.6-25.72.
> > > Posts
> > > are processed very fast, but delivery is more than slow.  It takes 1-2
> > > minutes per post to delivery mail.  Evaluating what is going on in the
> > > queue is a little more than cumbersome.  Over the course of 3-4 days
> > > mails
> > > have been piling up in the qfiles directory to the tune of 4000 mails
> > > and
> > > waiting.  There are mails 3 days old waiting to go out.  I'm looking
> > > for
> > > ways to evaluate what is in the queue, why it's in the queue, and how
> > > to
> > > tell qrunner to report more information on what it's thinking.  Like
> > > perhaps the msgid of the email it's trying to process at this time.
> > >
> > Are you using the local sendmail instance as the outgoing SMTP server?
> >
> > Regardless, what do the Mailman post, smtp and smtp-failure logs show
> > about mail being handled by the system. How does this tie in with the
> > MTA's mail log.
> >
> > If your outgoing mail is being handled by the local sendmail MTA then I
> > would normally expect Mailman to handoff to the MTA without much delay.
> > If MM is having problems handing off to sendmail then you might find
> > some evidence of this in the smtp-failure log.
> > > -- 
> > > Thank You,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-
> > > +-+-+-
> > > -  Andrew Wilson Falgout (RHCE)   Linux, E Pluribus
> > > UNIX!  -
> > > -  Systems Admin  II, TIU   Office:  (601) 266-5603
> > > -
> > > -  University of Southern Mississippi
> > > -
> > > -  Fax:  (601) 266-6788
> > > -
> > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> > > +-+-+-+
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slowperformance..suggestions please?!?

[Andrew Falgout]

The error log is at 0 bytes.  I have not overridden the Defaults.py which
shows Defaults.py:MTA_ALIASES_STYLE = 'sendmail'.  So I assume that means
that sendmail is the MTA.

Aug 25 08:08:31 2003 (27798) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 1.045 seconds
Aug 25 08:08:31 2003 (27798) smtp for 2 recips, completed in 1.149 seconds
Aug 25 08:12:47 2003 (27798) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.208 seconds
Aug 25 08:12:47 2003 (27798) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.241 seconds
Aug 25 08:14:25 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.701 seconds
Aug 25 08:14:25 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.716 seconds
Aug 25 08:17:21 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.167 seconds
Aug 25 08:17:21 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.179 seconds
Aug 25 08:19:34 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 3.962 seconds
Aug 25 08:19:34 2003 (31184) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 4.234 seconds

This is just a few of the lines in my /var/log/mailman/smtp file.  There are
a few bounces from time to time, but not on great frequency.  I did send an
email to a test list, and attempted to time when I would see my email
address in the post log, but after 10 minutes I have not seen it.  This
really confuses me, because the mail system on this server delivers mail
directly to a mailbox in seconds.  Why the delay?

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Andrew Falgout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slow
performance..suggestions please?!?


>
> On Sunday, August 24, 2003, at 12:51  am, Andrew Falgout wrote:
>
> > I'm currently running mailman-2.0.13-1 eith sendmail-8.11.6-25.72.
> > Posts
> > are processed very fast, but delivery is more than slow.  It takes 1-2
> > minutes per post to delivery mail.  Evaluating what is going on in the
> > queue is a little more than cumbersome.  Over the course of 3-4 days
> > mails
> > have been piling up in the qfiles directory to the tune of 4000 mails
> > and
> > waiting.  There are mails 3 days old waiting to go out.  I'm looking
> > for
> > ways to evaluate what is in the queue, why it's in the queue, and how
> > to
> > tell qrunner to report more information on what it's thinking.  Like
> > perhaps the msgid of the email it's trying to process at this time.
> >
> Are you using the local sendmail instance as the outgoing SMTP server?
>
> Regardless, what do the Mailman post, smtp and smtp-failure logs show
> about mail being handled by the system. How does this tie in with the
> MTA's mail log.
>
> If your outgoing mail is being handled by the local sendmail MTA then I
> would normally expect Mailman to handoff to the MTA without much delay.
> If MM is having problems handing off to sendmail then you might find
> some evidence of this in the smtp-failure log.
> > -- 
> > Thank You,
> > Andrew
> >
> > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-
> > +-+-+-
> > -  Andrew Wilson Falgout (RHCE)   Linux, E Pluribus
> > UNIX!  -
> > -  Systems Admin  II, TIU   Office:  (601) 266-5603
> > -
> > -  University of Southern Mississippi
> > -
> > -  Fax:  (601) 266-6788
> > -
> > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> > +-+-+-+
>
>
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
> This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/andrew.falgout%40usm.edu
>



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RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slowperformance..suggestions please?!?

[Mike Kercher]

This could be caused by a DNS bottleneck.  I would recommend you setup a
caching-only nameserver on your Mailman box and see if that helps.  Remember
to modify /etc/resolv.conf to add a line at the top:

nameserver 127.0.0.1

Mike


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Andrew Falgout
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 6:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slow
performance..suggestions please?!?


I'm currently running mailman-2.0.13-1 eith sendmail-8.11.6-25.72.  Posts 
are processed very fast, but delivery is more than slow.  It takes 1-2 
minutes per post to delivery mail.  Evaluating what is going on in the 
queue is a little more than cumbersome.  Over the course of 3-4 days mails 
have been piling up in the qfiles directory to the tune of 4000 mails and 
waiting.  There are mails 3 days old waiting to go out.  I'm looking for 
ways to evaluate what is in the queue, why it's in the queue, and how to 
tell qrunner to report more information on what it's thinking.  Like 
perhaps the msgid of the email it's trying to process at this time.

-- 
Thank You,
Andrew

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-
-  Andrew Wilson Falgout (RHCE)   Linux, E Pluribus UNIX!  -
-  Systems Admin  II, TIU   Office:  (601) 266-5603-
-  University of Southern Mississippi  -
-  Fax:  (601) 266-6788-
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman / Sendmail horribly slowperformance.. suggestions please?!?

[Brad Knowles]

At 6:51 PM -0500 2003/08/23, Andrew Falgout wrote:

 I'm currently running mailman-2.0.13-1 eith sendmail-8.11.6-25.72.  Posts
 are processed very fast, but delivery is more than slow.
	You may want to consider sendmail 8.12 (current is 8.12.9, with 
8.12.10 currently in Beta2).  There are many new features with 
sendmail 8.12, including envelope auto-splitting for parallel 
delivery of a single mail message to multiple recipients.

	See Mailman FAQ Entry "6.3. MTA Performance Tuning Tips for 
Sendmail" at 
.

	You may also be interested in Mailman FAQ Entry "6.6. Mailman 
Performance Tuning for Mail Delivery" at 
, 
"6.8. Improving performance by DNS caching" 
, 
and "4.11. What about performance?" at 
.

	See also the file sendmail/TUNING from the sendmail distribution.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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