Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
Hi! On Fri, 08 Nov 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > Where they come in handy, I think, are digest users and lists with > infrequent postings. the busier a list, the less the monthly posting > probably matters. The less frequently a list is used, the more it's > useful just as a "hi, rmember us?" thing, since people can get out of > the habit of using a mail list. But it also is a reminder to them > they'd meant to unsubscribe... Then, an additional setting smiimilar to the digest frequency (i.e. send reminders out every N normal posts) might be handy. Just my $0.02 Greets, Tobias -- A program that can't tolerate empty input vastly overestimates the real world's interest in what it's doing. (Tim Peters in comp.lang.python) -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:55:57 -0800 Chuq Von Rospach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 08:48 PM, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Okay, but that doesn't explain the rash of unsubscribes every month >> on an otherwise active discussion list. > have you checked to see whether some (or all) of those people had set > themselves nomail? Did they go nomail thinking they unsubscribed? Or > go on vacation and forget to turn it back on, and when the reminder > came, decided they liked the quiet? No, I've not checked. The only not-quite correlated statistic I have is that my rate (and number) or NOMAIL subscribers is low (usually below 20 per 1,000). -- J C Lawrence -(*)Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. [EMAIL PROTECTED] He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 08:48 PM, J C Lawrence wrote: Okay, but that doesn't explain the rash of unsubscribes every month on an otherwise active discussion list. have you checked to see whether some (or all) of those people had set themselves nomail? Did they go nomail thinking they unsubscribed? Or go on vacation and forget to turn it back on, and when the reminder came, decided they liked the quiet? I can think of a bunch of scenarios, but I don't have any data. -- Chuq Von Rospach, Architech [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/ The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:30:57 -0800 Chuq Von Rospach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 02:35 PM, J C Lawrence wrote: > I'd argue it's more likely the footer for discussion lists. I did some > experimenting with regular postings a few years ago (way pre-mailman), > and found that there wasn't much difference between posting bi-weekly, > monthly, and not at all, at least in terms of helping the casual > user. They don't keep a copy of it, so it's never there when they want > it (so they simply blat at the list). And the more often you post it, > the more likely people simply tune it out as noise. That's one reason > why I started experimenting with footer language instead, and > pre-mailman, simply stopped sending regular postings. It just seemed > like they were mostly bit-bucketed. Okay, but that doesn't explain the rash of unsubscribes every month on an otherwise active discussion list. > Personally, I think monthly is "about right". I'm not ready to do away > with them, especially since 2.1 can hook the bounce systme into > them. but I'm still unsure just what good they do, either. -- J C Lawrence -(*)Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. [EMAIL PROTECTED] He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Friday, November 8, 2002, at 02:35 PM, J C Lawrence wrote: Writing as an admin: Yes, I like and want the monthly reminders and I don't want them any less frequent. Why? I'm fairly convinced that they save me from, "unsubscribe me!" messages. I rank the usefulness of these things this way: 1) unsubscribe/help information in the footer of every message. 2) regular postings. 3) the List-* headers (because they're new, people don't expect them, and MUA's don't make them easily available yet. Long term, they're the answer, once everyone buys into them) Certainly my rate of such messages has collapsed since I moved to mailman, and I've a burst of unsubscribes every month immediately after the reminders go out. I'd argue it's more likely the footer for discussion lists. I did some experimenting with regular postings a few years ago (way pre-mailman), and found that there wasn't much difference between posting bi-weekly, monthly, and not at all, at least in terms of helping the casual user. They don't keep a copy of it, so it's never there when they want it (so they simply blat at the list). And the more often you post it, the more likely people simply tune it out as noise. That's one reason why I started experimenting with footer language instead, and pre-mailman, simply stopped sending regular postings. It just seemed like they were mostly bit-bucketed. Where they come in handy, I think, are digest users and lists with infrequent postings. the busier a list, the less the monthly posting probably matters. The less frequently a list is used, the more it's useful just as a "hi, rmember us?" thing, since people can get out of the habit of using a mail list. But it also is a reminder to them they'd meant to unsubscribe... Personally, I think monthly is "about right". I'm not ready to do away with them, especially since 2.1 can hook the bounce systme into them. but I'm still unsure just what good they do, either. -- Chuq Von Rospach, Architech [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/ Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Nov 8, 2002 at 10:44, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: [original poster said] >>> Please consider switching the base code of mailman to send quarterly >>> instead >>> of monthly 'reminders' to subscribers. As an avid subscriber of >>> lists, it's >>> annoying to get these messages every month, when every 3 or 6 months >>> would >>> suffice. [Satya said] >> You can change the cron setting. [back to Chuq] >I think he's saying that the default for mailman ought to be quarterly, >and I got the impression he was speaking as a user, not an admin -- >someone who GETS all of those messages every month. I read it the other way. Of course, if you change the default, you'll get people wanting to change it back. You can't win. OP should contact the local admin. >Monthly is traditional, but I think it's worthy of some thought. With >the List-* headers in the message, and the footer that traditionally >points to the info pages (and with 2.1, that can be customized to the >user), do we still need to send out reminders monthly? I don't send them out at all, but that's just me. I don't have much traffic, either. -- Satya. http://satya.virtualave.net/> I need a job! Perl, Apache, Linux, C. http://www-scf.usc.edu/~phanse/resume.pdf -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:44:35 -0800 Chuq Von Rospach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Monthly is traditional, but I think it's worthy of some thought. With > the List-* headers in the message, and the footer that traditionally > points to the info pages (and with 2.1, that can be customized to the > user), do we still need to send out reminders monthly? Writing as an admin: Yes, I like and want the monthly reminders and I don't want them any less frequent. Why? I'm fairly convinced that they save me from, "unsubscribe me!" messages. Certainly my rate of such messages has collapsed since I moved to mailman, and I've a burst of unsubscribes every month immediately after the reminders go out. -- J C Lawrence -(*)Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. [EMAIL PROTECTED] He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
Please consider switching the base code of mailman to send quarterly instead of monthly 'reminders' to subscribers. As an avid subscriber of lists, it's annoying to get these messages every month, when every 3 or 6 months would suffice. You can change the cron setting. I think he's saying that the default for mailman ought to be quarterly, and I got the impression he was speaking as a user, not an admin -- someone who GETS all of those messages every month. Monthly is traditional, but I think it's worthy of some thought. With the List-* headers in the message, and the footer that traditionally points to the info pages (and with 2.1, that can be customized to the user), do we still need to send out reminders monthly? -- Chuq Von Rospach, Architech [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/ Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen asleep yet. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Switch to quarterly reminders
On Nov 7, 2002 at 14:11, Gary Pupurs wrote: >Please consider switching the base code of mailman to send quarterly instead >of monthly 'reminders' to subscribers. As an avid subscriber of lists, it's >annoying to get these messages every month, when every 3 or 6 months would >suffice. You can change the cron setting. -- Satya. http://satya.virtualave.net/> "Mr. Worf, scan that ship." "Aye Captain. 300 dpi?" -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: archive@jab.org Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
