subject:"Re\: \[Mailman\-Users\] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list"

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-02-14 Thread Richard Damon

Have you contacted the provider as mentioned in the bounce message, THEY 
need to look at the logs to see what is the problem.


The fact that the diagnostic code header ends in (BL) makes me wonder if 
you are on some sort of Blocking List, but that is just a guess,


The admin at t-online.de will have to confirm and if so let you know 
what list.


On 2/14/16 3:13 AM, Sascha Rissel wrote:

Hi,

again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.
The bounce log itself doesn't show something worth mentioning, but here's
the bounce message I'm receiving.

Could you maybe have a look?

Kind regards,
Sascha.

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

 List:   rcworms-vorstand
 Member: some_u...@t-online.de
 Action: Subscription disabled.
 Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.



The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mail...@euve103340.serverprofi24.de.


-- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --
From: Mail Delivery System 
To: rcworms-vorstand-boun...@euve103340.serverprofi24.de
Cc:
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:38:02 + (UTC)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
This is the mail system at host lists.rc-worms.de.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

The mail system

: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused to
talk to
 me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for
help
 or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; some_u...@t-online.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;some_u...@t-online.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx03.t-online.de
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your
 postmaster for help or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)



--
Richard Damon

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-02-14 Thread Larry Turnbull

This is definitely a blacklist issue.

When you see the message  "the server refused to talk to me" it means that
the ip address where the mailman messages are coming from is on their
blacklist.

To resolve this the host provider where the mailman list in question resides
needs to contact the internet service provider that is blocking the message
and work with them to get them to lift the block.

I have had to do this many times with different internet service providers.

Each provider has a different process that you have to go through to get the
block lifted.

Most of them, the administrator of the mailman host provider has to fill out
a form online to explain that they are not a spammer.

I am the server administrator for an organization known as the American
Council of the blind and I ended up routing our smtp services through a
service called mandrill which is put out by Mail Chimp.

This put an end to the constant problem of internet service providers
blacklisting our servers since we have a lot of mailman lists.

I also recommend the munge from option because many host providers such as
yahoo have a DMarc policy in place that will cause bounce messages to occur
often.

Hope that helps.

Larry Turnbull
ACB Radio Managing Director and ACB Server Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+larry=acbradio@python.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Damon
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 6:32 AM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from
the list

Have you contacted the provider as mentioned in the bounce message, THEY
need to look at the logs to see what is the problem.

The fact that the diagnostic code header ends in (BL) makes me wonder if you
are on some sort of Blocking List, but that is just a guess,

The admin at t-online.de will have to confirm and if so let you know what
list.

On 2/14/16 3:13 AM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.
> The bounce log itself doesn't show something worth mentioning, but 
> here's the bounce message I'm receiving.
>
> Could you maybe have a look?
>
> Kind regards,
> Sascha.
>
> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>
>  List:   rcworms-vorstand
>  Member: some_u...@t-online.de
>  Action: Subscription disabled.
>  Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.
>
>
>
> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>
> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at 
> mail...@euve103340.serverprofi24.de.
>
>
> -- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --
> From: Mail Delivery System <mailer-dae...@lists.rc-worms.de>
> To: rcworms-vorstand-boun...@euve103340.serverprofi24.de
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:38:02 + (UTC)
> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender This is the mail system 
> at host lists.rc-worms.de.
>
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be 
> delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.
>
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your 
> own text from the attached returned message.
>
> The mail system
>
> <some_u...@t-online.de>: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused 
> to talk to
>  me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your 
> postmaster for help
>  or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; some_u...@t-online.de
> Original-Recipient: rfc822;some_u...@t-online.de
> Action: failed
> Status: 4.0.0
> Remote-MTA: dns; mx03.t-online.de
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your
>  postmaster for help or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to 
> clarify.) (BL)
>

--
Richard Damon

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-02-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull

This is somewhat redundant now, but the information is a little more
precise than previoius replies.

Sascha Rissel writes:

 > again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.

[...]
 > : host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused to
 > talk to
 > me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for
 > help
 > or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)

At a guess "TOSA" = "terms of service agreement" and "BL" = "block
list".  That's supported by the SMTP status 554 (denied for
administrative reasons) and the link below.  But http://mxtoolbox.com/
says you're not on any of the 95 RBLs it checks.  So it must be
internal.  Google is my friend, and told me to look at

http://serverfault.com/questions/602399/t-online-de-blacklist-host-refused-to-talk-to-me-bl

So it looks like t-online has taken a severe dislike to you ("BL"
apparently means they've decided you're a long-term bad actor).  If you
are in the fortunate position I am[1][2], you tell the user that t-online
is f++ked and they should get a new address.  If you're not, write to
t...@rx.t-online.de and beg to be reinstated in their good graces.

Footnotes: 
[1]  You can generally ignore my footnotes.  It's my way of denoting a
a-political rant. :-)

[2]  My employer, the Japanese Ministry of Education, prohibited use
of Yahoo addresses for academic business after the Yahoo!/AOL April
Fool's Joke of 2014.  But strictly speaking, it turns out that it's
the Ministry that's f++ked because they can't tell the difference
between yahoo.co.jp, which causes no DMARC problem (they don't have a
p=reject policy), and yahoo.com, which has both DMARC *and* privacy
issues out the wazoo.  But I ignore that, since I hate the garbage
that Yahoo's wannabe MUA emits. ;-)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-02-14 Thread Sascha Rissel

Hi,

again I'm getting bounces for one specific provider: Germany's T-Online.
The bounce log itself doesn't show something worth mentioning, but here's
the bounce message I'm receiving.

Could you maybe have a look?

Kind regards,
Sascha.

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

List:   rcworms-vorstand
Member: some_u...@t-online.de
Action: Subscription disabled.
Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.

The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mail...@euve103340.serverprofi24.de.

-- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --
From: Mail Delivery System 
To: rcworms-vorstand-boun...@euve103340.serverprofi24.de
Cc:
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 12:38:02 + (UTC)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
This is the mail system at host lists.rc-worms.de.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

   The mail system

: host mx03.t-online.de[194.25.134.73] refused to
talk to
me: 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your postmaster for
help
or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; some_u...@t-online.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;some_u...@t-online.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx03.t-online.de
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 IP=62.138.1.209 - A problem occurred. (Ask your
postmaster for help or to contact t...@rx.t-online.de to clarify.) (BL)

2016-01-27 7:23 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :

> On 01/26/2016 10:19 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> > Thanks Mark!
> >
> > Is this the SMTP HELO/EHLO configuration, you spoke of?
>
>
> Yes it is.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-26 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/26/2016 10:19 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> Thanks Mark!
> 
> Is this the SMTP HELO/EHLO configuration, you spoke of?


Yes it is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-26 Thread Sascha Rissel

Thanks Mark!

Is this the SMTP HELO/EHLO configuration, you spoke of?

Regards,
Sascha.
Am 27.01.2016 1:11 vorm. schrieb "Mark Sapiro" :

> On 01/26/2016 03:56 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> >
> > Now I use the domain lists.rc-worms.de. If I enter that into the tool
> Mark
> > mentioned (mxtoolbox.com), everything is stated as fine, except for
> > "Reverse DNS does not match SMTP Banner".
> >
> > Could you please try to explain this a bit for me?
> > I use Postfix as MTA...
>
>
> Postfix is still identifying itself as euve51864.serverprofi24.de. You
> need
>
> myhostname = lists.rc-worms.de
>
> in Postfix main.cf
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-26 Thread Sascha Rissel

Hi Guys!

Many thanks for all your help so far!
I managed to configure a valid rDNS record to day and the users from the
blockings ISPs startet to receive mails again!

Now I use the domain lists.rc-worms.de. If I enter that into the tool Mark
mentioned (mxtoolbox.com), everything is stated as fine, except for
"Reverse DNS does not match SMTP Banner".

Could you please try to explain this a bit for me?
I use Postfix as MTA...

Many thanks again,
Sascha.
Am 26.01.2016 3:45 vorm. schrieb "Robert Heller" :

> At Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:27:24 +0100 Sascha Rissel 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Mark and all others,
> >
> > many thanks for your help so far.
> > I am just starting to setup this subdomain, Mark advised me to.
> >
> > One thing regarding the Reverse DNS entry:
> > How can it be necessary, to set up this record? Just imagine a server,
> > where multiple domains are hosted, but the server only has one IP.
> > If the ISPs really require rDNS entries, which suit to the mail
> originating
> > domain, one would always need a 1:1 mapping of IP and domain, preventing
> > multiple domains on a one-IP server, isn't it?
>
> You just need one 'real' canonical domain name, like lists.rc-worms.de,
> and
> have a rDNS PTR to lists.rc-worms.de. It does not really matter if there
> is a
> foo-l...@foobar.com hosted there. What is being objected to is the
> name.hosting-provider.tld type of name, as well as things like a
> HELO
> that does not match, and such. It has the look-and-feel of a spammer
> sending
> anonymous E-Mails or E-Mails with forged / spoofed addresses (including
> spoofed HELO's). Also the list server's MTA should be using the
> lists.rc-worms.de name in the HELO. And you probably should also have
> a spf record as well. Everything should 'match': the A record, the rDNS PTR
> record, the HELO name used, the SPF record, etc. That makes everything look
> legit and everything fits together.
>
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Sascha.
> >
> > 2016-01-26 0:48 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :
> >
> > > On 01/25/2016 03:27 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> > > > Hi Mark!
> > > >
> > > >> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly
> configured.
> > > >> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it
> appears
> > > >> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has
> an
> > > >> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
> > > >
> > > > this is all pretty correct.
> > > >
> > > > "euve51864.serverprofi24.de" is the natural name of the vServer, I
> am
> > > > running.
> > > > I don't have a real domain configured, since I mainly just use it for
> > > > mailman.
> > >
> > >
> > > As I indicated in a follow-up post web.de is apparently not allowing
> > > 'generic' domains any more.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I configured all Mailman lists to use something like @
> > > rc-worms.de,
> > > > where  is the www domain of my sports club, whose
> > > > administrator I am.
> > > > For better readability I named and configured all lists this way, to
> use
> > > <
> > > > memb...@rc-worms.de>,  as exlicity reply-to
> address
> > > and
> > > > so on.
> > > >
> > > > This worked pretty well for years.
> > > > Did it now turn into a problem, that reply-to address and domain ()
> bear
> > > a
> > > > different IP/rDNS result?
> > >
> > >
> > > That is not the problem as far as I can tell. The problem is that the
> > > specific domain you are using for your mail server,
> > > euve51864.serverprofi24.de, is now seen as a 'generic' name and is not
> > > acceptable to web.de.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is there something you could suggest in this case?
> > > >
> > > > Should I maybe configure a subdomain on my vServer, like <
> > > lists.rc-worms.de>,
> > > > from which the mails will be send from and can bear own DNS config?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. lists.rc-worms.de should be good. I would have suggested just
> > > rc-worms.de, but that already has an A record pointing to a different
> > > server.
> > >
> > > The issue you will run into is that while you can configure the MTA to
> > > identify itself as lists.rc-worms.de and you can create the A record
> for
> > > it, you don't control the rDNS PTR record for 62.75.175.182. That's
> > > controlled by intergenia.de. It may be no problem to get them to
> change
> > > it, but it could be a stumbling block. You'll find out when you ask.
> > >
> > > With respect to the underlying issue here, ISPs are getting more and
> > > more fussy about only accepting mail from what they consider to be real
> > > mail servers. Trying to run a mail server with a dynamic IP or an IP
> > > with a 'generic' host name is just not possible if you want reliable
> > > acceptance of your mail.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> > > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> > > --
> >

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-26 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/26/2016 03:56 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> 
> Now I use the domain lists.rc-worms.de. If I enter that into the tool Mark
> mentioned (mxtoolbox.com), everything is stated as fine, except for
> "Reverse DNS does not match SMTP Banner".
> 
> Could you please try to explain this a bit for me?
> I use Postfix as MTA...


Postfix is still identifying itself as euve51864.serverprofi24.de. You need

myhostname = lists.rc-worms.de

in Postfix main.cf

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/25/2016 01:59 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> 
> I have some user on my lists, who complain they don't receive the list
> mails anymore, since a few days.
> 
> Am am running Mailman 2.1.15 on Debian.
> The error log is empty, the archive seems to correctly contain all recent
> mails.
> The people saying, they don't receive the mails are on GMail and German
> Web.de hosts and they don't have bounces logged by Mailman.

If there is nothing in Mailman's error log or bounce log, it is almost
certain the mail is being delivered by Mailman to the outgoing MTA and
the outgoing MTA is successfully delivering the mail to the mail
exchange server for the recipient domain.

You can confirm this if you have access to the Mailman (and it's
outgoing MTA) server's mail.log.

If this is the case and the users have checked their gmail or web.de
spam or junk folders and the messages aren't there, the messages are
likely being silently discarded somewhere in the delivery chain after
leaving the outgoing MTA.

Solving this is difficult. Some steps are outlined in the FAQ article at
.

I sometimes will copy the specific MTA log messages indicating
acceptance by the receiving MTA, e.g., messages like

Jan 24 19:09:41 sbh16 postfix/smtp[1053]: 1279111E1A8F:
to=, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.28.26]:25,
delay=5.8, delays=4.9/0.66/0.09/0.13, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
OK 1453691381 tt2si3153213pac.167 - gsmtp)

and tell the user to ask gmail what happened to that message. In that
message, (250 2.0.0 OK 1453691381 tt2si3153213pac.167 - gsmtp) is the
acceptance from gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com indicating the message was
accepted at unix time stamp 1453691381 with the accepting server's ID
tt2si3153213pac.167. I suspect gmail actually ignores such requests from
their users or provides only a generic response. People who actually pay
for their email service may have a bit more leverage.

Anyway, apart from the things in the FAQ article, there's not a whole
lot you can do. If you can possibly identify something about the missing
mail that triggers it, e.g., only mail From: a certain user or domain,
or something in a specific thread (copied in everyone's reply), you can
try to avoid that, but if it's all list mail To: particular domains
(gmail), I think it's more likely to be a block on mail from your
server's IP, but in the US at least, gmail ordinarily bounces such mail
with a fairly specific reason.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Sascha Rissel

Mark,

thanks for your answer.
I just checked the bounce log.

And I discovered a lot of entries like:

Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741)  processing 9 queued
bounces
Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016

where all mail addresses are from German Web.de and GMX. Both providers
belong to the same company.
Thinking about this, I remembered a bounce notification I received last
week, where some of these addresses were set to disabled by Mailman, with
the notification below.

Did GMX/Web.de maybe change their mail processing policies with the start
of the new year?
Below follows an excerpt from the bounce notification.

Kind regards,
Sascha.

Bounce Mail:

: host mx-ha02.web.de[212.227.17.8] refused to talk
to me: 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No
SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For explanation visit
http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

Final-Recipient: rfc822; @gmx.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;@gmx.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx00.emig.gmx.net
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554-gmx.net (mxgmx002) Nemesis ESMTP Service not
available 554-No SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For
explanation visit
http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

Final-Recipient: rfc822; @web.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;andreas_hac...@web.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx-ha02.web.de
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not
available 554-No SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For
explanation visit
http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

2016-01-25 23:35 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :

> On 01/25/2016 01:59 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> >
> > I have some user on my lists, who complain they don't receive the list
> > mails anymore, since a few days.
> >
> > Am am running Mailman 2.1.15 on Debian.
> > The error log is empty, the archive seems to correctly contain all recent
> > mails.
> > The people saying, they don't receive the mails are on GMail and German
> > Web.de hosts and they don't have bounces logged by Mailman.
>
>
> If there is nothing in Mailman's error log or bounce log, it is almost
> certain the mail is being delivered by Mailman to the outgoing MTA and
> the outgoing MTA is successfully delivering the mail to the mail
> exchange server for the recipient domain.
>
> You can confirm this if you have access to the Mailman (and it's
> outgoing MTA) server's mail.log.
>
> If this is the case and the users have checked their gmail or web.de
> spam or junk folders and the messages aren't there, the messages are
> likely being silently discarded somewhere in the delivery chain after
> leaving the outgoing MTA.
>
> Solving this is difficult. Some steps are outlined in the FAQ article at
> .
>
> I sometimes will copy the specific MTA log messages indicating
> acceptance by the receiving MTA, e.g., messages like
>
> Jan 24 19:09:41 sbh16 postfix/smtp[1053]: 1279111E1A8F:
> to=, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.28.26]:25,
> delay=5.8, delays=4.9/0.66/0.09/0.13, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
> OK 1453691381 tt2si3153213pac.167 - gsmtp)
>
> and tell the user to ask gmail what happened to that message. In that
> message, (250 2.0.0 OK 1453691381 tt2si3153213pac.167 - gsmtp) is the
> acceptance from gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com indicating the message was
> accepted at unix time stamp 1453691381 with the accepting server's ID
> tt2si3153213pac.167. I suspect gmail actually ignores such requests from
> their users or provides only a generic response. People who actually pay
> for their email service may have a bit more leverage.
>
> Anyway, apart from the things in the FAQ article, there's not a whole
> lot you can do. If you can possibly identify something about the missing
> mail that triggers it, e.g., only mail From: a certain user or domain,
> or something in a specific thread (copied in everyone's reply), you can
> try to avoid that, but if it's all list mail To: particular domains
> (gmail), I think it's more likely to be a block on mail from your
> server's IP, but in the US at least, gmail ordinarily bounces such mail
> with a fairly specific reason.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
>

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/25/2016 02:48 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> 
> thanks for your answer.
> I just checked the bounce log.
> 
> And I discovered a lot of entries like:
> 
> Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741)  processing 9 queued
> bounces
> Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
> scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
...
> where all mail addresses are from German Web.de and GMX. Both providers
> belong to the same company.
> Thinking about this, I remembered a bounce notification I received last
> week, where some of these addresses were set to disabled by Mailman, with
> the notification below.
> 
> Did GMX/Web.de maybe change their mail processing policies with the start
> of the new year?

Possibly. See below.

> Below follows an excerpt from the bounce notification.
> 
> Bounce Mail:
> 
> : host mx-ha02.web.de[212.227.17.8] refused to talk
> to me: 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No
> SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For explanation visit
> http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

OK. The recipient's mail exchange server is refusing your mail. web.de's
explanation of this is at
.

In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.

In any case you need to ensure the IP address your server sends from has
a rDNS (PTR) record pointing to its host name and that host name in turn
needs an A record with the same IP address. Also, it should identify
itself with this same name in the SMTP HELO or EHLO command.

According to the tool at
,
this is all OK, so I don't know why web.de is complaining. I suggest you
use the form at
 to ask them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/25/2016 03:11 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 01/25/2016 02:48 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
>>
>> : host mx-ha02.web.de[212.227.17.8] refused to talk
>> to me: 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No
>> SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For explanation visit
>> http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns
> 
> 
> OK. The recipient's mail exchange server is refusing your mail. web.de's
> explanation of this is at
> .
> 
> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
> 
> In any case you need to ensure the IP address your server sends from has
> a rDNS (PTR) record pointing to its host name and that host name in turn
> needs an A record with the same IP address. Also, it should identify
> itself with this same name in the SMTP HELO or EHLO command.
> 
> According to the tool at
> ,
> this is all OK, so I don't know why web.de is complaining. I suggest you
> use the form at
>  to ask them.


I looked more carefully at
, and
I'm guessing that web.de has decided that euve51864.serverprofi24.de is
a 'generic' name rather than an independent and fully qualified domain name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Jayson Smith


Hello,

This bounce message clearly indicates that your IP address doesn't have 
a reverse DNS entry. This is a standard lookup done as a part of spam 
fighting efforts. You need to get your provider to set the reverse DNS 
for your IP address to the domain name of your mail server if possible.


Newer Mailman versions (I know 2.1.20 at least) have an option to alert 
list admins when anyone's bounce score is incremented. I have this 
feature enabled, and it's helped me catch some bounces before they 
resulted in disabling addresses. Years ago, I switched to a new provider 
and thought everything was going well. Then five days later I received a 
bunch of bounce notices telling me that addresses had been disabled. It 
turns out my IP address was apparently on some blacklists, and the way 
Mailman used to work, I was left blissfully unaware there was a problem 
until days later, when possibly many messages to these people could have 
been rejected and lost. Until Mailman offered the choice of receiving 
alerts as soon as someone bounces a message and gets their bounce score 
incremented, the only way I could be sure my Emails weren't bouncing was 
to set Mailman to disable member addresses after just one bounce. This 
worked, but had the unpleasant side effect of disabling member addresses 
who bounced a single message because their ISP thought it was spam for 
some reason, or for some other temporary reason.


Jayson

On 1/25/2016 5:48 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:

Mark,

thanks for your answer.
I just checked the bounce log.

And I discovered a lot of entries like:

Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741)  processing 9 queued
bounces
Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016

where all mail addresses are from German Web.de and GMX. Both providers
belong to the same company.
Thinking about this, I remembered a bounce notification I received last
week, where some of these addresses were set to disabled by Mailman, with
the notification below.

Did GMX/Web.de maybe change their mail processing policies with the start
of the new year?
Below follows an excerpt from the bounce notification.

Kind regards,
Sascha.


Bounce Mail:

: host mx-ha02.web.de[212.227.17.8] refused to talk
 to me: 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available 554-No
 SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For explanation visit
 http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

Final-Recipient: rfc822; @gmx.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;@gmx.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx00.emig.gmx.net
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554-gmx.net (mxgmx002) Nemesis ESMTP Service not
 available 554-No SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For
 explanation visit
 http://postmaster.gmx.com/en/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

Final-Recipient: rfc822; @web.de
Original-Recipient: rfc822;andreas_hac...@web.de
Action: failed
Status: 4.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx-ha02.web.de
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not
 available 554-No SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For
 explanation visit
 http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns

2016-01-25 23:35 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :


On 01/25/2016 01:59 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:

I have some user on my lists, who complain they don't receive the list
mails anymore, since a few days.

Am am running Mailman 2.1.15 on Debian.
The error log is empty, the archive seems to correctly contain all recent
mails.
The people saying, they don't receive the mails are on GMail and German
Web.de hosts and they don't have bounces logged by Mailman.


If there is nothing in Mailman's error log or bounce log, it is almost
certain the mail is being delivered by Mailman to the outgoing MTA and
the outgoing MTA is successfully delivering the mail to the mail
exchange server for the recipient domain.

You can confirm this if you have access to the Mailman (and it's
outgoing MTA) server's mail.log.

If this is the case and the users have checked their gmail or web.de
spam or junk folders and the messages aren't there, the messages are
likely being silently discarded somewhere in the delivery chain after
leaving the outgoing MTA.

Solving this is difficult. Some steps are outlined in the FAQ article at
.

I sometimes will copy the specific MTA log messages indicating
acceptance by the receiving MTA, e.g., messages like

Jan 24 19:09:41 sbh16 postfix/smtp[1053]: 1279111E1A8F:
to=, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.28.26]:25,
delay=5.8, delays=4.9/0.66/0.09/0.13, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0
OK 1453691381 tt2si3153213pac.167 - gsmtp)

and tell the user to ask gmail what happened to that message. In that
message, (250 2.0.0 OK

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Sascha Rissel

Hi Mark!

> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.

this is all pretty correct.

"euve51864.serverprofi24.de" is the natural name of the vServer, I am
running.
I don't have a real domain configured, since I mainly just use it for
mailman.
I configured all Mailman lists to use something like @rc-worms.de,
where  is the www domain of my sports club, whose
administrator I am.
For better readability I named and configured all lists this way, to use <
memb...@rc-worms.de>,  as exlicity reply-to address and
so on.

This worked pretty well for years.
Did it now turn into a problem, that reply-to address and domain () bear a
different IP/rDNS result?
Is there something you could suggest in this case?

Should I maybe configure a subdomain on my vServer, like ,
from which the mails will be send from and can bear own DNS config?

Kind regards,
Sascha.




2016-01-26 0:11 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :

> On 01/25/2016 02:48 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> >
> > thanks for your answer.
> > I just checked the bounce log.
> >
> > And I discovered a lot of entries like:
> >
> > Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741)  processing 9
> queued
> > bounces
> > Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
> > scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
> ...
> > where all mail addresses are from German Web.de and GMX. Both providers
> > belong to the same company.
> > Thinking about this, I remembered a bounce notification I received last
> > week, where some of these addresses were set to disabled by Mailman, with
> > the notification below.
> >
> > Did GMX/Web.de maybe change their mail processing policies with the start
> > of the new year?
>
>
> Possibly. See below.
>
>
> > Below follows an excerpt from the bounce notification.
> >
> > Bounce Mail:
> >
> > : host mx-ha02.web.de[212.227.17.8] refused to talk
> > to me: 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available
> 554-No
> > SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For explanation
> visit
> > http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns
>
>
> OK. The recipient's mail exchange server is refusing your mail. web.de's
> explanation of this is at
> .
>
> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
>
> In any case you need to ensure the IP address your server sends from has
> a rDNS (PTR) record pointing to its host name and that host name in turn
> needs an A record with the same IP address. Also, it should identify
> itself with this same name in the SMTP HELO or EHLO command.
>
> According to the tool at
> <
> http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=smtp%3a62.75.175.182=toolpage
> >,
> this is all OK, so I don't know why web.de is complaining. I suggest you
> use the form at
>  to ask
> them.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mailman%40rissel.it
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Robert Heller

At Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:59:47 +0100 Sascha Rissel  wrote:

> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have some user on my lists, who complain they don't receive the list
> mails anymore, since a few days.
> 
> Am am running Mailman 2.1.15 on Debian.
> The error log is empty, the archive seems to correctly contain all recent
> mails.
> The people saying, they don't receive the mails are on GMail and German
> Web.de hosts and they don't have bounces logged by Mailman.

Are these messages that these people have posted themselves ("I don't see the 
message *I* posted...")?  If so, this is 'normal' for GMail.  GMail 'hides' 
messages users post on E-Mail lists.

Otherwise you need to check your SMTP logs (/var/log/mailman/smtp and/or
/var/log/maillog).

The only other thought is for the users to check their SPAM folders.  It is 
also possible that your server has somehow been added to a SPAMCOP type 
blacklist.

> 
> Can you help me with this?
> Are there any means, how I can analyse this issue?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Sascha.
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
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> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com
> 
> 

-- 
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hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/25/2016 03:27 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> Hi Mark!
> 
>> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
>> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
>> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
>> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
> 
> this is all pretty correct.
> 
> "euve51864.serverprofi24.de" is the natural name of the vServer, I am
> running.
> I don't have a real domain configured, since I mainly just use it for
> mailman.

As I indicated in a follow-up post web.de is apparently not allowing
'generic' domains any more.

> I configured all Mailman lists to use something like @rc-worms.de,
> where  is the www domain of my sports club, whose
> administrator I am.
> For better readability I named and configured all lists this way, to use <
> memb...@rc-worms.de>,  as exlicity reply-to address and
> so on.
> 
> This worked pretty well for years.
> Did it now turn into a problem, that reply-to address and domain () bear a
> different IP/rDNS result?

That is not the problem as far as I can tell. The problem is that the
specific domain you are using for your mail server,
euve51864.serverprofi24.de, is now seen as a 'generic' name and is not
acceptable to web.de.

> Is there something you could suggest in this case?
> 
> Should I maybe configure a subdomain on my vServer, like ,
> from which the mails will be send from and can bear own DNS config?

Yes. lists.rc-worms.de should be good. I would have suggested just
rc-worms.de, but that already has an A record pointing to a different
server.

The issue you will run into is that while you can configure the MTA to
identify itself as lists.rc-worms.de and you can create the A record for
it, you don't control the rDNS PTR record for 62.75.175.182. That's
controlled by intergenia.de. It may be no problem to get them to change
it, but it could be a stumbling block. You'll find out when you ask.

With respect to the underlying issue here, ISPs are getting more and
more fussy about only accepting mail from what they consider to be real
mail servers. Trying to run a mail server with a dynamic IP or an IP
with a 'generic' host name is just not possible if you want reliable
acceptance of your mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Sascha Rissel

Dear Mark and all others,

many thanks for your help so far.
I am just starting to setup this subdomain, Mark advised me to.

One thing regarding the Reverse DNS entry:
How can it be necessary, to set up this record? Just imagine a server,
where multiple domains are hosted, but the server only has one IP.
If the ISPs really require rDNS entries, which suit to the mail originating
domain, one would always need a 1:1 mapping of IP and domain, preventing
multiple domains on a one-IP server, isn't it?

Kind regards,
Sascha.

2016-01-26 0:48 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :

> On 01/25/2016 03:27 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> > Hi Mark!
> >
> >> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
> >> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
> >> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
> >> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
> >
> > this is all pretty correct.
> >
> > "euve51864.serverprofi24.de" is the natural name of the vServer, I am
> > running.
> > I don't have a real domain configured, since I mainly just use it for
> > mailman.
>
>
> As I indicated in a follow-up post web.de is apparently not allowing
> 'generic' domains any more.
>
>
> > I configured all Mailman lists to use something like @
> rc-worms.de,
> > where  is the www domain of my sports club, whose
> > administrator I am.
> > For better readability I named and configured all lists this way, to use
> <
> > memb...@rc-worms.de>,  as exlicity reply-to address
> and
> > so on.
> >
> > This worked pretty well for years.
> > Did it now turn into a problem, that reply-to address and domain () bear
> a
> > different IP/rDNS result?
>
>
> That is not the problem as far as I can tell. The problem is that the
> specific domain you are using for your mail server,
> euve51864.serverprofi24.de, is now seen as a 'generic' name and is not
> acceptable to web.de.
>
>
> > Is there something you could suggest in this case?
> >
> > Should I maybe configure a subdomain on my vServer, like <
> lists.rc-worms.de>,
> > from which the mails will be send from and can bear own DNS config?
>
>
> Yes. lists.rc-worms.de should be good. I would have suggested just
> rc-worms.de, but that already has an A record pointing to a different
> server.
>
> The issue you will run into is that while you can configure the MTA to
> identify itself as lists.rc-worms.de and you can create the A record for
> it, you don't control the rDNS PTR record for 62.75.175.182. That's
> controlled by intergenia.de. It may be no problem to get them to change
> it, but it could be a stumbling block. You'll find out when you ask.
>
> With respect to the underlying issue here, ISPs are getting more and
> more fussy about only accepting mail from what they consider to be real
> mail servers. Trying to run a mail server with a dynamic IP or an IP
> with a 'generic' host name is just not possible if you want reliable
> acceptance of your mail.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mailman%40rissel.it
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Sascha Rissel

EDIT:
For better clarification, the www domain  is hosted on a
different (dedicated) web server. Mailman is running on a vServer of its
own, it just uses  as a nice readable domain for mail
addresses, configured on the web server to forward each mail to the real
physical (and not so nicely readable) address _
mailing

_l...@euve51864.serverprofi24.de
>.
Am 26.01.2016 12:27 vorm. schrieb "Sascha Rissel" :

> Hi Mark!
>
> > In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
> > I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
> > from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
> > rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
>
> this is all pretty correct.
>
> "euve51864.serverprofi24.de" is the natural name of the vServer, I am
> running.
> I don't have a real domain configured, since I mainly just use it for
> mailman.
> I configured all Mailman lists to use something like @
> rc-worms.de, where  is the www domain of my sports club,
> whose administrator I am.
> For better readability I named and configured all lists this way, to use <
> memb...@rc-worms.de>,  as exlicity reply-to address
> and so on.
>
> This worked pretty well for years.
> Did it now turn into a problem, that reply-to address and domain () bear a
> different IP/rDNS result?
> Is there something you could suggest in this case?
>
> Should I maybe configure a subdomain on my vServer, like <
> lists.rc-worms.de>, from which the mails will be send from and can bear
> own DNS config?
>
> Kind regards,
> Sascha.
>
>
>
>
> 2016-01-26 0:11 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :
>
>> On 01/25/2016 02:48 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
>> >
>> > thanks for your answer.
>> > I just checked the bounce log.
>> >
>> > And I discovered a lot of entries like:
>> >
>> > Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741)  processing 9
>> queued
>> > bounces
>> > Jan 25 18:33:24 2016 (2741) :  already
>> > scored a bounce for date 25-Jan-2016
>> ...
>> > where all mail addresses are from German Web.de and GMX. Both providers
>> > belong to the same company.
>> > Thinking about this, I remembered a bounce notification I received last
>> > week, where some of these addresses were set to disabled by Mailman,
>> with
>> > the notification below.
>> >
>> > Did GMX/Web.de maybe change their mail processing policies with the
>> start
>> > of the new year?
>>
>>
>> Possibly. See below.
>>
>>
>> > Below follows an excerpt from the bounce notification.
>> >
>> > Bounce Mail:
>> >
>> > : host mx-ha02.web.de[212.227.17.8] refused to talk
>> > to me: 554-web.de (mxweb107) Nemesis ESMTP Service not available
>> 554-No
>> > SMTP service 554-Bad DNS PTR resource record. 554 For explanation
>> visit
>> > http://postmaster.web.de/error-messages?ip=62.75.175.182=rdns
>>
>>
>> OK. The recipient's mail exchange server is refusing your mail. web.de's
>> explanation of this is at
>> .
>>
>> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
>> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
>> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
>> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
>>
>> In any case you need to ensure the IP address your server sends from has
>> a rDNS (PTR) record pointing to its host name and that host name in turn
>> needs an A record with the same IP address. Also, it should identify
>> itself with this same name in the SMTP HELO or EHLO command.
>>
>> According to the tool at
>> <
>> http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=smtp%3a62.75.175.182=toolpage
>> >,
>> this is all OK, so I don't know why web.de is complaining. I suggest you
>> use the form at
>>  to ask
>> them.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>> --
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mailman%40rissel.it
>>
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Richard Damon


On 1/25/16 7:27 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:

Dear Mark and all others,

many thanks for your help so far.
I am just starting to setup this subdomain, Mark advised me to.

One thing regarding the Reverse DNS entry:
How can it be necessary, to set up this record? Just imagine a server,
where multiple domains are hosted, but the server only has one IP.
If the ISPs really require rDNS entries, which suit to the mail originating
domain, one would always need a 1:1 mapping of IP and domain, preventing
multiple domains on a one-IP server, isn't it?

Kind regards,
Sascha.

The server name does not need to be connected to the domain the mail is 
'from'. My outgoing mail uses an outgoing SMTP server not in anyway 
connected to my domain. If someone REALLY wants their mail to fully 
appear (even to people digging into headers and server logs) as if it is 
coming through a dedicated mail path, then they are going to need to pay 
their MSP for the additional IP addresses to make that happen.


--
Richard Damon

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Mark Sapiro

On 01/25/2016 04:27 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> 
> One thing regarding the Reverse DNS entry:
> How can it be necessary, to set up this record? Just imagine a server,
> where multiple domains are hosted, but the server only has one IP.
> If the ISPs really require rDNS entries, which suit to the mail originating
> domain, one would always need a 1:1 mapping of IP and domain, preventing
> multiple domains on a one-IP server, isn't it?

No. It doesn't matter how many From: or SMTP MAIL FROM domains the
server supports. the crucial things are:

The IP address of the server has an rDNS PTR record pointing to a name.
That name has an A record with the same IP address and that name is the
name with which the MTA identifies itself in SMTP HELO or EHLO.

In addition, web.de and lots of other ISPs require that the name itself
not be a generic looking name, and some go so far as to not like IP
addresses that are in a netblock used by an ISP for 'home' connections.
On this latter point I run an MTA on msapiro.net which at one time was
on a 'home' DSL connection with fixed IP with rDNS to msapiro.net, but
in spite of this proper configuration with a non-generic domain, I would
occasionally get flagged by Microsoft for "bot like behavior", the only
plausible reason for which is the IP was in a range used by the DSL
provider for 'home use'

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

2016-01-25 Thread Robert Heller

At Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:27:24 +0100 Sascha Rissel  wrote:

> 
> Dear Mark and all others,
> 
> many thanks for your help so far.
> I am just starting to setup this subdomain, Mark advised me to.
> 
> One thing regarding the Reverse DNS entry:
> How can it be necessary, to set up this record? Just imagine a server,
> where multiple domains are hosted, but the server only has one IP.
> If the ISPs really require rDNS entries, which suit to the mail originating
> domain, one would always need a 1:1 mapping of IP and domain, preventing
> multiple domains on a one-IP server, isn't it?

You just need one 'real' canonical domain name, like lists.rc-worms.de, and
have a rDNS PTR to lists.rc-worms.de. It does not really matter if there is a
foo-l...@foobar.com hosted there. What is being objected to is the
name.hosting-provider.tld type of name, as well as things like a HELO
that does not match, and such. It has the look-and-feel of a spammer sending
anonymous E-Mails or E-Mails with forged / spoofed addresses (including
spoofed HELO's). Also the list server's MTA should be using the
lists.rc-worms.de name in the HELO. And you probably should also have
a spf record as well. Everything should 'match': the A record, the rDNS PTR
record, the HELO name used, the SPF record, etc. That makes everything look
legit and everything fits together.

> 
> Kind regards,
> Sascha.
> 
> 2016-01-26 0:48 GMT+01:00 Mark Sapiro :
> 
> > On 01/25/2016 03:27 PM, Sascha Rissel wrote:
> > > Hi Mark!
> > >
> > >> In simple terms, it claims your mail server is not properly configured.
> > >> I don't know what your Mailman server's domain name is, but it appears
> > >> from the error message that its IP is 62.75.175.182 and that IP has an
> > >> rDNS PTR record to euve51864.serverprofi24.de.
> > >
> > > this is all pretty correct.
> > >
> > > "euve51864.serverprofi24.de" is the natural name of the vServer, I am
> > > running.
> > > I don't have a real domain configured, since I mainly just use it for
> > > mailman.
> >
> >
> > As I indicated in a follow-up post web.de is apparently not allowing
> > 'generic' domains any more.
> >
> >
> > > I configured all Mailman lists to use something like @
> > rc-worms.de,
> > > where  is the www domain of my sports club, whose
> > > administrator I am.
> > > For better readability I named and configured all lists this way, to use
> > <
> > > memb...@rc-worms.de>,  as exlicity reply-to address
> > and
> > > so on.
> > >
> > > This worked pretty well for years.
> > > Did it now turn into a problem, that reply-to address and domain () bear
> > a
> > > different IP/rDNS result?
> >
> >
> > That is not the problem as far as I can tell. The problem is that the
> > specific domain you are using for your mail server,
> > euve51864.serverprofi24.de, is now seen as a 'generic' name and is not
> > acceptable to web.de.
> >
> >
> > > Is there something you could suggest in this case?
> > >
> > > Should I maybe configure a subdomain on my vServer, like <
> > lists.rc-worms.de>,
> > > from which the mails will be send from and can bear own DNS config?
> >
> >
> > Yes. lists.rc-worms.de should be good. I would have suggested just
> > rc-worms.de, but that already has an A record pointing to a different
> > server.
> >
> > The issue you will run into is that while you can configure the MTA to
> > identify itself as lists.rc-worms.de and you can create the A record for
> > it, you don't control the rDNS PTR record for 62.75.175.182. That's
> > controlled by intergenia.de. It may be no problem to get them to change
> > it, but it could be a stumbling block. You'll find out when you ask.
> >
> > With respect to the underlying issue here, ISPs are getting more and
> > more fussy about only accepting mail from what they consider to be real
> > mail servers. Trying to run a mail server with a dynamic IP or an IP
> > with a 'generic' host name is just not possible if you want reliable
> > acceptance of your mail.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> > --
> > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> > Searchable Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mailman%40rissel.it
> >
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
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> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
>

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users complain, they don't receive mails from the list

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