Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see. See ya. Bye. Mailman is one of the most powerful and flexible mailing list management systems in the world, but it is not the right answer for everyone. If you're not a suitable candidate for using Mailman, then I'm sorry we can't help you, but we can't just wave a magic wand and make everything perfect for you instantly. My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted? Mailman just wasn't designed to be installed that way. If you need a tool that can be installed that way, you need to look elsewhere. Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess. Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no .procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web access. I have full privileged command-line access to the python.org servers, because I am the currently active member of the Python.org Postmaster Team, as well as the Mailmn Site Administrator and co-moderator of the various mailman-* mailing lists. Frankly, I do almost all of my Mailman administration via the web. Typically, the only times I ever need to log onto the server and access things via the command line is when there is a problem with a particular user not being able to send e-mail to us and I need to go do some deep searching of the MTA logs on the server and compare/contrast those with the Mailman logs. BK You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like. My expertise is in just reporting lots of minor bugs. Apparently, you can also read at least one other language as well as English, so if you want to complain about the support that Mailman provides for other languages it would be pretty hypocritical of you to avoid contributing your skills and knowledge towards increasing the quality of the translations. We've got version 2.1.10 waiting in the wings, currently in the process of having the translations updated for other languages. This is an ideal opportunity for you to help yourself as well as to help others. Or, you could just keep complaining. -- Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
Dudes, out of curiosity why can't mailman be totally installed and run without involving root? Indeed maybe it would be a safer and more portable installation. E.g., who cares what MTA is installed when one can just use: #Untested partial .procmailrc for a mailman list on a catchall mailbox #for a domain. No need to have root adjust some MTA's configuration! 0: LIST=nurds *$^TO_ $LIST-\/(admin|bounces|confirm|join|leave|owner|request|subscribe|unsubscribe) |mail/mailman $MATCH $LIST 0: *$^TO_ $LIST |mail/mailman post $LIST And the mailman directory tree we just tailor in ./configure to match the site's apache setup. No meddling with apache config files. And sending mail we just send to port 25 or /usr/lib/sendmail. I mean one can install e.g., MediaWiki with all the bells and whistles without root. Does mailman run setuid root? No. SetGID seems no big hurdle on most unix accounts. CGI is a feature of most hosting accounts. Mailbox forwarding and aliases are features of most hosting accounts. There, see, I have rewritten your thinking: indeed a totally non-root-involved installation keeps one insulated from (and meddling with) the underlying details. Yes, rewritten your thinking, all without testing. Hope it really works. What could go wrong? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
On 1/19/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dudes, out of curiosity why can't mailman be totally installed and run without involving root? Indeed maybe it would be a safer and more portable installation. Feel free to give it a try and report back to us. E.g., who cares what MTA is installed when one can just use: #Untested partial .procmailrc for a mailman list on a catchall mailbox #for a domain. No need to have root adjust some MTA's configuration! Okay, so now you've just made Mailman 100% dependant on having procmail installed, as opposed to not really caring what MTA may be installed, and being able to work with multiple different MTAs. There, see, I have rewritten your thinking: indeed a totally non-root-involved installation keeps one insulated from (and meddling with) the underlying details. Yes, rewritten your thinking, all without testing. Hope it really works. What could go wrong? No, you haven't totally rewritten anything, except maybe your own memory of how you magically improve anything you touch. -- Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
On 1/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does one really need root privileges to install mailman? Yup. -- Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
Does one really need root privileges to install mailman? BK Yup. I see. See ya. Bye. SJT You could probably make it work more or less, but to make things SJT secure you do need root privileges. Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle? SJT Yes. Security. If your host allows you to do such things, I strongly SJT suggest you find one who won't. ;-) My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted? No problem, I'll just put mailman on a different one of my unlimited shell users. Now of course clogging the mail system for others would not be acceptable. Anyway it seems mailman is complicated enough to just use the web half that Dreamhost allows, as ask their support staff to fix things I can't reach. Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess. Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no .procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web access. BK This is an open source project, maintained entirely by volunteers Never mind, I'll try the competition. $ w3m -dump http://www.sympa.org/|grep Sorry Sorry, you don't have enough rights to continue. Perhaps you forgot to login? OK, looks I'm stuck with you guys. BK You're welcome to join the translation team, if you like. My expertise is in just reporting lots of minor bugs. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the Since DreamHost already has implemented Mailman for you, why don't you concentrate on setting up your mail lists properly and securely? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBR5ABMNN2DJl/zagkAQJ6pwgAwOF4iRP8q/rihnVdZ8xwMdEufBVb04r/ bBwLN+05NEBp4HJ3d6wypUynnzTq1m8JnaBmHwEw0642b18mJGw6LBTzSVR+0c41 o9bqatylM01IGhdgQDnOG6I0CtEJ4Mv2LKfWWObRoA40NG4baQ8CRAzhehLjQDyG 2DZl2KKAaeSov29EbyMUpl7zo3piwXcPU86J7KqM3FwwJZcyYyLuX1v0o8E76iFk D5SVRi3TDA76ssD53TEaN4Qv3MSnMhahzWCe3CqTlylEBXEC60QJePYex66lOhP2 tYHxOdJhbSwRANWP+4Udzk1ryr1GOm5PlBI2oHL1oCsA0n0/3VfaBw== =Tx7p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
Along the lines of this (Org. mail already dele'd I forget who asked): quote [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does one really need root privileges to install mailman? /quote Would it be the problems of one doing a full install in a seperate folder on a shared host site?? Space not a problem for myself and I would surmise the orginal questioner. Just asking 'cause I realy do feel my expertise is far enough advanced -:). Tnx. Ed -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] surely can install mailman without root?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is the above neglecting a fundamental principle? SJT Yes. Security. If your host allows you to do such things, I strongly SJT suggest you find one who won't. ;-) My mom just spent $400 for me for 5 years at Dreamhost. What's the worst that could happen? All the files on my account getting deleted? No problem, You need to learn that what *you* don't know can hurt the rest of us. Specifically, if the files on your account can be deleted, they can be replaced. Eg, with a set of spam filters that open the floodgates to a spammer, along with a brand new set of 1 million subscribers you never heard of. I'll just put mailman on a different one of my unlimited shell users. No, you'll lose all your unlimited shell users, and be banned for life from that system. Nor will your mother get her $400 back, since you violated the AUP. Imagine me not being to stop bad bots via .htaccess. Imagine all mail going straight to the moderator queue with no .procmail etc. filtering. That is what I'm worried about with only web access. You get what you pay for. Hardware and bandwidth, unfortunately, cannot be provided in infinite amounts at negligible cost the way that software can. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
