Re: [mailop] Microsoft blocking/spammarking messages

[Matt Vernhout via mailop]

You need to start here for help: 
https://sendersupport.olc.protection.outlook.com/snds/

~
Matt

> On Dec 10, 2020, at 12:11, Nate Burke via mailop  wrote:
> 
> Hello, I was hoping someone from Microsoft could contact me offlist for help 
> getting our server (66.151.17.22) removed from the Microsoft blacklist.  I'm 
> having problems sending to outlook.com/msn.com and others with domains hosted 
> at office365.  I can't find any issues with the server, and I don't appear to 
> be on any other blacklists, but all messages to Microsoft are either getting 
> rejected or sent to the spam folder.  The mailserver has been at this IP for 
> many many years, but these issues just started about 10 days ago.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Error message;
> 
> <<< 550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [66.151.17.22] weren't sent. 
> Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is 
> on our block list (S3150). You can also refer your provider to 
> http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. 
> [BN8NAM12FT057.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com]
> 
> The link does not appear to have any way for admins to view/remove the server 
> from the blacklist.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Nate Burke
> Blast  Communications
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Re: [mailop] Effeciveness (or not) of SPF

[Brandon Long via mailop]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:29 PM Thomas Walter via mailop 
wrote:

> Hey Brandon,
>
> On 09.12.20 00:55, Brandon Long via mailop wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:31 AM Paul Smith via mailop  > > wrote:
> > If you're forwarding to your own company's mail server, then it
> should
> > be easy to have that forwarding work with SPF, and if you're
> forwarding
> > to someone like gmail, then, to be honest, it should be relatively
> > trivial for them to *USE* SPF to allow forwarding to them. I could
> tell
> > Google to allow a specific domain to forward to me (the domain of the
> > forwarder), and they use the SPF record for that domain to validate
> the
> > IP addresses that can then forward and override other SPF checks.
> >
> >
> > That feature was on my backlog at Gmail for a long time, but never high
> > enough priority
> > to get off it... now it would probably use ARC instead unless that
> > becomes a pipe dream,
> > at least theoretically with ARC we could just learn it and not worry
> > about the user interface
> > and confusing users.
> Interested question: Your systems could learn something like that too?
>
> If a number of emails come in to the same recipient with "failing" SPF
> from the same host(s)/domains it is probably a forwarder to that recipient?
>

We have some things that we use for trying to learn forwards, but they are
far from
perfect.  ARC would be a much cleaner signal and one we'd likely put more
effort into
due to it's need for DMARC and mailing lists. With ARC, we wouldn't need to
learn
of the forwarding, but we would need to determine whether we want to trust
a given forward.

Brandon
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Re: [mailop] Effeciveness (or not) of SPF

[Brandon Long via mailop]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 1:27 PM Liam Fisher via mailop 
wrote:

>
> SPF plays havoc with forwards unless the sender is rewriting their
> envelope from addresses to a domain with SPF friendly to their
> source.
>

Unless you do a good job of not forwarding your spam mail, we don't
recommend rewriting
the envelope sender when forwarding to Gmail especially to match SPF.
That's a good way
to have all of the spam you forward attributed to your own domain and hurt
it's reputation in
our system.  That applies to using SRS too.

If you don't forward spam, or don't rewrite things you think are spam,
rewriting is less harmful.

I realize that Gmail auto-forwarding does indeed rewrite the mail from, but
I'm going to go with
we do a good enough job of spam blocking, and also our forwards are not a
high percentage
of the gmail.com mail, so it does actually meet the suggestions.

Brandon
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Re: [mailop] Effeciveness (or not) of SPF

[Liam Fisher via mailop]

-Original Message-
>From: Thomas Walter via mailop 
>Sent: Dec 10, 2020 2:26 AM
>To: mailop@mailop.org
>Subject: Re: [mailop] Effeciveness (or not) of SPF
>
>Hey Brandon,
>
>On 09.12.20 00:55, Brandon Long via mailop wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:31 AM Paul Smith via mailop > > wrote:
>> If you're forwarding to your own company's mail server, then it should
>> be easy to have that forwarding work with SPF, and if you're forwarding
>> to someone like gmail, then, to be honest, it should be relatively
>> trivial for them to *USE* SPF to allow forwarding to them. I could tell
>> Google to allow a specific domain to forward to me (the domain of the
>> forwarder), and they use the SPF record for that domain to validate the
>> IP addresses that can then forward and override other SPF checks.
>> 
>> 
>> That feature was on my backlog at Gmail for a long time, but never high
>> enough priority
>> to get off it... now it would probably use ARC instead unless that
>> becomes a pipe dream,
>> at least theoretically with ARC we could just learn it and not worry
>> about the user interface
>> and confusing users.
>Interested question: Your systems could learn something like that too?
>
>If a number of emails come in to the same recipient with "failing" SPF
>from the same host(s)/domains it is probably a forwarder to that recipient?
>
>Regards,
>Thomas Walter
>
>-- 
>Thomas Walter
>Datenverarbeitungszentrale
>
>FH Münster
>- University of Applied Sciences -
>Corrensstr. 25, Raum B 112
>48149 Münster
>
>Tel: +49 251 83 64 908
>Fax: +49 251 83 64 910
>www.fh-muenster.de/dvz/
>


SPF plays havoc with forwards unless the sender is rewriting their 
envelope from addresses to a domain with SPF friendly to their 
source.
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Re: [mailop] Microsoft blocking/spammarking messages

[Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen via mailop]

Hi Nate,

I’m not in any way associated with Microsoft, but

> 10. des. 2020 kl. 18:07 skrev Nate Burke via mailop :
> 
> Hello, I was hoping someone from Microsoft could contact me offlist for help 
> getting our server (66.151.17.22) removed from the Microsoft blacklist.  I'm 
> having problems sending to outlook.com/msn.com and others with domains hosted 
> at office365.  I can't find any issues with the server, and I don't appear to 
> be on any other blacklists, but all messages to Microsoft are either getting 
> rejected or sent to the spam folder.  The mailserver has been at this IP for 
> many many years, but these issues just started about 10 days ago.
> 

reading the message you quote,

> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Error message;
> 
> <<< 550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [66.151.17.22] weren't sent. 
> Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is 
> on our block list (S3150). You can also refer your provider to 
> http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. 
> [BN8NAM12FT057.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com]

it looks to me they’re really telling you to talk to your upstream (Internap if 
I read the whois for 66.151.17.22 correctly.


> The link does not appear to have any way for admins to view/remove the server 
> from the blacklist.

As is par for the course. It is the natural default assumption that the problem 
is caused elsewhere.

FWIW, the last interaction I had with the powers that be at Microsoft over a 
related manner, it took a few days after I had published a blog article 
(https://bsdly.blogspot.com/2018/02/a-life-lesson-in-mishandling-smtp.html 
) 
before any visible reaction from their end.

- Peter

—
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.






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[mailop] Microsoft blocking/spammarking messages

[Nate Burke via mailop]

Hello, I was hoping someone from Microsoft could contact me offlist for 
help getting our server (66.151.17.22) removed from the Microsoft 
blacklist.  I'm having problems sending to outlook.com/msn.com and 
others with domains hosted at office365.  I can't find any issues with 
the server, and I don't appear to be on any other blacklists, but all 
messages to Microsoft are either getting rejected or sent to the spam 
folder.  The mailserver has been at this IP for many many years, but 
these issues just started about 10 days ago.


Any help would be appreciated.

Error message;

<<< 550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [66.151.17.22] weren't sent. 
Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their 
network is on our block list (S3150). You can also refer your provider 
to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. 
[BN8NAM12FT057.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com]


The link does not appear to have any way for admins to view/remove the 
server from the blacklist.



Thank you,
Nate Burke
Blast  Communications
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