Re: [mailop] Who is Mine/SayMine.com?

[Philip Paeps via mailop]

On 2022-08-01 23:43:57 (+0800), Jenny Nespola via mailop wrote:

Is mine/saymine.com a legitimate company? We're getting a number of
requests daily, all following the same template swapping out the email 
and

name of the recipient.


If they're a legitimate company, they are certainly part of the problem 
they claim to solve...


It sounds like they're primarily in the business of building a database 
of verified email credentials.


Philip

--
Philip Paeps
Senior Reality Engineer
Alternative Enterprises
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[mailop] Increase in connection issues with eBay emails

[Jarland Donnell via mailop]

I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing the same recently. I've recently 
begun seeing a bunch of these in my exim logs:


2022-08-01 21:26:14 SSL_write: (from mxphxpool2075.ebay.com 
[66.211.185.238]) syscall: Connection reset by peer
2022-08-01 21:26:14 SMTP connection from mxphxpool2075.ebay.com 
[66.211.185.238] lost while reading message data (header)


Seems like eBay in particular is closing connections before we can 
finish them. I'm not particularly seeing any evidence that our servers 
are suddenly overloaded, business as usual otherwise. If no one else is 
seeing an increase in events like this, that would pretty well confirm 
that I need to solve it in-house rather than escalate.

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Re: [mailop] Who is Mine/SayMine.com?

[John Levine via mailop]

According to Jenny Nespola via mailop :
>Hi all,
>
>Is mine/saymine.com a legitimate company? We're getting a number of
>requests daily, all following the same template swapping out the email and
>name of the recipient.
>
>For the few that I checked, I do not see them in our DB. Is the goal to
>phish or just annoy or something else I am not thinking of?

I think they're a scam against the people who think their information
is being removed, not against you. They send me occasional requests to
remove people from the abuse.net database, which is hard because there
are no people in the abuse.net database.

I think I replied once or twice but nobody ever wrote back.  Ignore it.

R's,
John



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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Brandon Long via mailop]

I would caution against assuming that legal analysis is required to match
technical analysis.

At the least, any legal proceedings would involve a lot of argument over
exactly what the words
in the statute mean, what the intent of the legislature was, and whether
reasonable attempts were made
to meet them.

And these things will often be decided by decidedly non-technical judges.

And that's even assuming that the legal system tries to deal with things in
an unbiased manner,
which is not a safe assumption now, if it ever was.

Given that there is also a large number of other legislation targeting the
likely involved companies,
not to mention other legal proceedings, there is certainly the potential
for spill over effects as well.

I would not want to rely on an argument in court that "label" only means
label in the Gmail sense, and doesn't
apply to a header, subject prefix, category, keyword or folder or color
or whatever.  Or that junk
didn't mean spam.

Brandon

On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 9:19 AM Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop 
wrote:

> I'm not an American, so it's basically "not my fairy-tale" (as we say in
> our
> country), but I can't stop wondering at the use of the word "label" in the
> proposed regulation.
>
> I already asked (in a bit sarcastic tone) in one of the previous emails,
> what
> is a "label" in context of email in general. Because there's simply no such
> thing: if you look at email protocols, or operation of server software,
> there's no such thing as "label". Spam filters may add a *header*
> indicating
> that a message is spam, but is a header a "label" or not? And if the spam
> filter does not add a header, but just directly moves the message (using
> sieve for example) to spam *folder* on the server? Is a *physical folder in
> the filesystem* a "label" or not?
>
> "Labels" per se exist only in some implementations of MUAs, most notably in
> Gmail web interface. So either the regulation is targeted particularly at
> Google, or it's authors never saw any other email system than Gmail and
> imagine that a "label" is some universal thing (which wonders me, because
> don't they have their internal email systems at Congress or governmental
> institutions?)
>
> Another question is, how are the operators supposed to distinguish
> political
> messages from non-political ones? The only reasonable method that comes to
> mind is submitting by political senders in advance to the operators a list
> of sender addresses that shouldn't be filtered. Operators can then
> whitelist
> them.
>
> But can't compiling a list of such sender be considered some form of
> "applying a label"? In that cse the regulation becomes self-contradictory:
> in order to comply with the regulation and "not apply a label" to political
> messages, you have first to "apply a label" to senders of those messages, a
> label that says "don't apply any label to messages from this sender".
>
> Just some doubts that - at least for me - show that this entire proposal
> doesn't make any sense.
> --
> Regards,
>Jaroslaw Rafa
>r...@rafa.eu.org
> --
> "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
> was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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>
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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Grant Taylor via mailop]

On 8/1/22 9:59 AM, WIlliam Fisher via mailop wrote:

This is purely a "punish big tech for us not following rules" bill.


Any time someone says / implies "do what I say, not what I do" I become 
highly suspicious of the veracity of their statement.


If the laws aren't good enough for you, then they aren't good enough for 
anyone.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[WIlliam Fisher via mailop]

They don't care.

This is purely a "punish big tech for us not following rules" bill.



On 8/1/22 8:46 AM, Bill Cole via mailop wrote:

On 2022-08-01 at 05:12:01 UTC-0400 (Mon, 1 Aug 2022 11:12:01 +0200)
Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop 
is rumored to have said:


Dnia  1.08.2022 o godz. 08:26:56 Dan Malm via mailop pisze:


But the only way you can get gmail to "use a filtering algorithm to 
apply a

label" would be for yourself to "take action to apply such a label" by
creating a filter yourself... Gmail doesn't apply labels to spam, it 
places

the spam in your spam folder.


We commonly call it "spam folder", but in terms used by Gmail, "Spam" 
is a
"label", not a "folder". There are no "folders" in Gmail web 
interface. What

we'd call "folders" is called "labels" by Gmail.


And is expressed in IMAP as both a folder of messages and as the $Junk 
keyword applied to those messages.


The people who wrote that bill don't understand any technical details 
about email and clearly didn't believe that they needed to.



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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[WIlliam Fisher via mailop]

There is a definite bias in American political e-mail, but it has 
nothing to do with actual

politics.

Blue e-mail tends to follow best sending practices, mostly uses good 
carriers, etc.  (I said mostly)


Red e-mail tends to not follow best practices, use the cheapest and less 
reputable carriers, and

have tons of "cross-platform" unsolicited messages.

We've all seen it.  I am surprised they haven't also named the large 
AVAS companies that do the

filtering for the smaller companies as well.



On 8/1/22 11:39 AM, Anne Mitchell via mailop wrote:



On Jul 31, 2022, at 1:29 PM, Laura Atkins via mailop  wrote:

The research paper seems reasonably well done and I encourage people to 
actually read it and their conclusions rather than paying attention to the 
popular press takes on it.

Totally agreed and, in fact, my understanding is that the authors are not pleased by the 
..(how can I be circumspect here?...um...) "bill's authors and their ilk" 
miscasting and misrepresenting it in order to fuel this effort.

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop

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[mailop] Who is Mine/SayMine.com?

[Jenny Nespola via mailop]

Hi all,

Is mine/saymine.com a legitimate company? We're getting a number of
requests daily, all following the same template swapping out the email and
name of the recipient.

For the few that I checked, I do not see them in our DB. Is the goal to
phish or just annoy or something else I am not thinking of?

I always fear visiting a site and wasn't able to find anything good or bad
so thought I would ask first. And because of my paranoia I have not clicked
on any of the links below.

Also this information is coming in through our contact forms so I don't
have any data just yet on source of submissions, but can ask if we have it
if will be helpful for others.

*Example message:*

Hi ,

My name is .
I’ve used your service in the past using this email address .
I ask you to please remove any of my personal data from your systems.
I’m on a journey to remove my data from different services I’m no longer
using, to reduce my online exposure.
I used Mine’s technology to discover my data and send deletion requests
from my own inbox (see from address).
Would appreciate a confirmation once this is completed successfully.
Thank you,


--

For companies:

Mine has saved more than 300,000 users worldwide from data breaches by
helping them reduce their online exposure.

We understand that each company has its own process, and we will be happy
to adapt:

1. To provide users a disclaimer or to ask them for extra details before
they submit requests, click here

.
2. To direct our users to your dedicated form, click here

.
3. If you can’t find the users’ data in your system, we can provide you
with digital evidence click here

.
4. If you are a data processor for this request, click here

.


Thanks!
Jen
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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Anne Mitchell via mailop]

On 2022-07-30 21:07, Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:
> 
> I think in this case we all know what they're doing and you've hit it dead 
> on. They're targeting Gmail and they're not really interested in anyone else.

Which is one reason the bill may not go any further, because now that Google 
has caved and asked the FEC for an opinion letter on Google's "pilot program" 
to let political campaign email bypass spam filtering, that stick may have 
already done its job (there was no carrot).

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop

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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Anne Mitchell via mailop]

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 1:29 PM, Laura Atkins via mailop  
> wrote:
> 
> The research paper seems reasonably well done and I encourage people to 
> actually read it and their conclusions rather than paying attention to the 
> popular press takes on it. 

Totally agreed and, in fact, my understanding is that the authors are not 
pleased by the ..(how can I be circumspect here?...um...) "bill's authors and 
their ilk" miscasting and misrepresenting it in order to fuel this effort.

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop

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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2022-08-01 at 05:12:01 UTC-0400 (Mon, 1 Aug 2022 11:12:01 +0200)
Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop 
is rumored to have said:


Dnia  1.08.2022 o godz. 08:26:56 Dan Malm via mailop pisze:


But the only way you can get gmail to "use a filtering algorithm to 
apply a
label" would be for yourself to "take action to apply such a label" 
by
creating a filter yourself... Gmail doesn't apply labels to spam, it 
places

the spam in your spam folder.


We commonly call it "spam folder", but in terms used by Gmail, "Spam" 
is a
"label", not a "folder". There are no "folders" in Gmail web 
interface. What

we'd call "folders" is called "labels" by Gmail.


And is expressed in IMAP as both a folder of messages and as the $Junk 
keyword applied to those messages.


The people who wrote that bill don't understand any technical details 
about email and clearly didn't believe that they needed to.


--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop]

Dnia  1.08.2022 o godz. 08:26:56 Dan Malm via mailop pisze:
> 
> But the only way you can get gmail to "use a filtering algorithm to apply a
> label" would be for yourself to "take action to apply such a label" by
> creating a filter yourself... Gmail doesn't apply labels to spam, it places
> the spam in your spam folder.

We commonly call it "spam folder", but in terms used by Gmail, "Spam" is a
"label", not a "folder". There are no "folders" in Gmail web interface. What
we'd call "folders" is called "labels" by Gmail.
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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