Re: [mailop] [E] Re: Spamfolder mini rant (Was: Contact Google Postmaster)

[John R Levine via mailop]

That’s not the only option they offer. While they might use POP3 for most
accounts in the ancient “import” flow, they do support adding 3rd party
accounts properly via IMAP via their Gmailify feature.


Oh, OK.  That only works for a handful of large providers.  For my users 
it says too bad, POP only.


Regards,
John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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Re: [mailop] [E] Re: Spamfolder mini rant (Was: Contact Google Postmaster)

[Marcel Becker via mailop]

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 07:40 John Levine  wrote:

>
> >They support IMAP as well.
>
> That's the other direction.  You can tell them to collect mail from
> external
> accounts, which they only do by POP.



That’s not the only option they offer. While they might use POP3 for most
accounts in the ancient “import” flow, they do support adding 3rd party
accounts properly via IMAP via their Gmailify feature.
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Re: [mailop] MSFT - OLC Support - Page reloads without SR creation?

[Luke Thompson via mailop]

Worked a treat, thanks Evan.

An error would be a treat. :-)

Luke T.


On 31/1/2024 7:54 am, Luke Thompson via mailop wrote:

Ah lovely, so a reload in lieu of an error.

I'd halved that field, will try with 1 example.

Thank you,

Luke Thompson, CTO
The Network Crew P/L

E: luke.t@tnc.works
https://tnc.works

On 31 January 2024 3:25:00 am Evan Burke  wrote:



Sometimes this can happen if you put a lot of bounce codes in the 
"copy and paste any error messages" field. Try providing a single 
one, or even something like "will be provided", since you usually 
need to provide the bounce codes again later in the process.


On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 2:38 AM Luke Thompson via mailop 
 wrote:


Hi all,

Just a quick note to Microsoft staffers on-list, that for us at
least
https://olcsupport.office.com (new interface for what used to be
a far
longer hyperlink for "free Microsoft domains" de-listing request
submissions) on-submit is not creating the Support Request - instead
just reloading.

Is anyone able to please confirm/advise? We have a client
requesting an
upstream de-listing, and we're presently (it seems) unable to act
on it.

Thanks!

-- 
Luke Thompson, CTO

The Network Crew P/L

E: luke.t@tnc.works
https://tnc.works


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Re: [mailop] Italian provider TIM.it (alie.it) contact postmaster

[Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop]

> Hello mailop
> 
> Anybody on the feed that has contact info for Italian MBP tim.it , alice.it
> ?
> We have serious blocking issues on our transactional emails to this provider
> but we don't seem to be finding any luck in contacting them.

Try these Abuse Department addresses...

For TIM.IT:
ab...@tim.it 
ab...@telecomitalia.it
ab...@business.telecomitalia.it

For ALICE.IT:
ab...@retail.telecomitalia.it

I hope this helps.

-- 
Postmaster - postmas...@inter-corporate.com
Randolf Richardson, CNA - rand...@inter-corporate.com
Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
https://www.inter-corporate.com/


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Re: [mailop] MSFT - OLC Support - Page reloads without SR creation?

[Evan Burke via mailop]

Sometimes this can happen if you put a lot of bounce codes in the "copy and
paste any error messages" field. Try providing a single one, or even
something like "will be provided", since you usually need to provide the
bounce codes again later in the process.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 2:38 AM Luke Thompson via mailop 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just a quick note to Microsoft staffers on-list, that for us at least
> https://olcsupport.office.com (new interface for what used to be a far
> longer hyperlink for "free Microsoft domains" de-listing request
> submissions) on-submit is not creating the Support Request - instead
> just reloading.
>
> Is anyone able to please confirm/advise? We have a client requesting an
> upstream de-listing, and we're presently (it seems) unable to act on it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Luke Thompson, CTO
> The Network Crew P/L
>
> E: luke.t@tnc.works
> https://tnc.works
>
>
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Re: [mailop] [E] Re: Spamfolder mini rant (Was: Contact Google Postmaster)

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Marcel Becker via mailop  said:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 5:25 PM Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop <
>mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
>
>> Interestingly, Google's GMail allows access to external eMail
>> accounts via POP3.  There's no IMAP4 support there.
>>
>
>They support IMAP as well.

That's the other direction.  You can tell them to collect mail from external
accounts, which they only do by POP.  I have a lot of users who do that to
avoid fruitless attempts to forward mail to Gmail.

You are right that if you want to access your Gmail account from other places,
they have an IMAP server.  With their own bespoke authentication, of course.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] Spamfolder mini rant (Was: Contact Google Postmaster)

[Laura Atkins via mailop]

> On 30 Jan 2024, at 01:20, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop 
>  wrote:
> 
>>> On 28 Jan 2024, at 20:23, Thomas Walter via mailop  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 28.01.24 20:02, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
 There are "edge cases" when the mail couldn't be reliably classified as 
 spam
 or non-spam. Even with best tuned spam filtering systems false positives
 will happen.
>>> 
>>> So why not just deliver these to the Inbox then - and add a tag/label 
>>> instead if you have to?
>> 
>> A very experienced spam filter person, who worked at a not-for-profit spam 
>> filtering company and two of the major mailbox providers once told me that 
>> the biggest challenge with their job was that there were messages that some 
>> recipients were SURE were spam and messages that some recipients absolutely 
>> wanted. Those were the hardest messages to decide what to do with. They 
>> couldn´t block them because some recipients would be mad and they couldn´t 
>> deliver them because other recipients would be mad.
> 
>   It's a catch-22 that becomes a more common challenge as the number 
> of users increases.  Ultimately, the spam problem has many human 
> factors to it, so a purely-technical solution will be imperfect.

Exactly. 

>>> In 95% of the cases, I can just identify the bad emails by subject. A quick 
>>> press on DEL and it's gone.
>>> 
>>> I don't see any advantage of a Spam folder if I have to regularly check it 
>>> anyway. In fact it can even be more difficult to identify a false positive 
>>> between the Junk that collected in there.
>> 
>> Some mail clients allow you to turn off the spam folder option and get every 
>> mail, spam or not, in your inbox. That may be a solution for you. I know 
>> mail.app will also tag it in a different color, so you can visually see what 
>> mail.app thinks is spam in you rinbox. 
> 
>   SpamAssassin tagging can also continue as-is because it's just in an 
> SMTP header.  Ditto for other solutions that add SMTP headers.

And you can configure Apple mail to respect those headers. 

We run a very unique and special setup for Reasons (tm) that doesn’t involve 
any SMTP based filtering.  

> 
>>> Plus there are still customers that use POP3 for different reasons 
>>> (connectors that collect mails for internal Exchange systems for example). 
>>> Those never get to see the content of a spam folder.
>> 
>> Google heavily discourages POP, to the extent it throws up security warnings 
>> if you try and enable it. They´re pretty clear they don´t want their 
>> customers using it, so why would they go out of their way to suppor tht 
>> usage?
> [sNip]
> 
>   Interestingly, Google's GMail allows access to external eMail 
> accounts via POP3.  There's no IMAP4 support there.  It's as if they 
> want only the rest of the world to keep supporting POP3.

Anything to keep the user in an environment google controls. 

laura

-- 
The Delivery Expert

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com

Delivery hints and commentary: http://wordtothewise.com/blog






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Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: Spamfolder mini rant (Was: Contact Google Postmaster)

[Laura Atkins via mailop]

> On 29 Jan 2024, at 18:02, Todd Herr via mailop  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 12:24 PM Scott Mutter via mailop  > wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 10:01 AM Todd Herr via mailop > > wrote:
>>> Users can only click "This is spam" on messages that end up in their inbox. 
>>> If all of your traffic went to the spam folder, perhaps because it was 
>>> unfortunately remarkably similar to previous traffic that was deemed spam, 
>>> you won't get any complaints through an FBL, because the "This is spam" 
>>> button isn't available when viewing the Spam folder.
>>> 
>> There have been topics on this list as to what actually qualifies an FBL 
>> trigger.  Is it when a user flags the message as spam?  Or is it when the 
>> receiving server's MTA delivers the message into the recipient's spambox?  
>> As far as I know, there's never been a consensus on that.  Some providers 
>> may do it one way, other providers may do it another.
>> 
> 
> I am not familiar with any FBLs that are not complaint-driven, but I'll allow 
> that such things might exist, and if anyone's got pointers to them, please 
> share. All the ones I'm aware of are ones that basically follow the gameplan 
> laid out in RFC 6449.

I’ve been informed by one provider that they trigger an ARF report when they 
see mail move into the spam folder on an IMAP server. So if the built in MUA 
filters move the mail (say, Apple Mail or the spam filters built into outlook) 
then that will trigger a report. Other mailbox providers have specifically said 
they don’t monitor IMAP movement. 

> There are mailbox providers out there that provide insight into what 
> percentage of mail from a given source was classified as spam, such as 
> Microsoft's SNDS program and Google's Postmaster Tools, but I've never 
> understood those to be feedback loops, per se, as they didn't and don't tell 
> you which specific messages were judged to be spam by a recipient or other 
> entity.

It’s been a while since I’ve looked at SNDS, but I don’t believe they provide a 
complaint percentage. What I remember is they provide a % of mail going to 
spamtraps. Microsoft does provide an ARF feed for mail to their consumer 
domains. 

laura

-- 
The Delivery Expert

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com

Delivery hints and commentary: http://wordtothewise.com/blog






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[mailop] MSFT - OLC Support - Page reloads without SR creation?

[Luke Thompson via mailop]

Hi all,

Just a quick note to Microsoft staffers on-list, that for us at least 
https://olcsupport.office.com (new interface for what used to be a far 
longer hyperlink for "free Microsoft domains" de-listing request 
submissions) on-submit is not creating the Support Request - instead 
just reloading.


Is anyone able to please confirm/advise? We have a client requesting an 
upstream de-listing, and we're presently (it seems) unable to act on it.


Thanks!

--
Luke Thompson, CTO
The Network Crew P/L

E: luke.t@tnc.works
https://tnc.works


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