Re: [mailop] postmaster: envelope vs header

[Jost Krieger via mailop]

*From: *Slavko via mailop 
*Subject: *Re: [mailop] postmaster: envelope vs header


I think a little about it, but i cannot find other way than do not use
To: header at all, which will be penalized in my anti-spam SW latter.


How about

To: Postmaster :;

Jost
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Re: [mailop] Problems with freenet mails

[Jost Krieger via mailop]

Am 26.06.2019 um 14:52 schrieb Tobias Matthaeus via mailop:
Unfortunately, some mail users on the mail server I am maintaining 
have a problem with Freenet. Does one of you have such a problem or 
even better: Is there a Freenet postmaster who can take care of it?


The following scenario:

A Freenet user writes an e-mail from bspw us...@freenet.de 
to us...@externedomain.de 

The e-mail address us...@externedomain.de 
is again hosted on my mail server and 
is provided with redirections. One of the redirects is for example 
us...@freenet.de 


The e-mail from us...@freenet.de to 
us...@externedomain.de is now bounced 
on delivery to us...@freenet.de with the note:


relay=emig.freenet.de [195.4.92.216]:25, 
delay=1.3, delays=0.94/0.19/0.16/0.03, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host 
emig.freenet.de [195.4.92.216] said: 587 
Please use submission (587) for local to local mail. (in reply to MAIL 
FROM command))


You are not explicitly saying if the forwarded mail still has an 
envelope sender of us...@freenet.de, but I will assume that.


I've been preaching for quite a few years that same envelope sender 
forwarding is no longer a good idea for totally different reasons.


The main use of the envelope sender is for bounces and a few other 
notifications.
The majority of today's mail users have only a very shady idea of the 
workings of internet mail. If they get a bounce for a mail from an 
address they never sent something to, they will not understand it. Even 
if there is some info about the original message in the bounce mail, 
which some recipients wont even send (except for the recipient's 
address), chances are the bounce will be "helpfully" mistreated by the 
senders mail system.


And, still worse, the original sender can do *nothing* about it.

SRS doesn't help here at all, BTW.

If a user-directed forward doesn't work, the person responsible for the 
forwarding should be informed, not the original sender.


So, please, reset the envelope sender to something like 
real-u...@externedomain.de, or whatever your mail system may use to 
prohibit forwarding. Otherwise you have set up a loop.


There are problems with this approach, of course. If the recipient 
doesn't read his original address, ever, things won't get noticed.


Jost


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Re: [mailop] Anyone on this List with Access to Amazon SES Maillogs?

[Jost Krieger via mailop]

Am 18.05.2019 um 19:47 schrieb Steve Dodd via mailop:
On Sat, 18 May 2019 at 01:00, Noel Butler via mailop 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:


AFAIK he.net filter ingoing and outgoing port 25 *by 
default*:


https://ipv6.he.net/certification/faq.php


That's it. And they do it by sending RSTs from the destination address.

I verified this by trying to connect to the address John used for the 
test. Can't ping it, get a timeout on Port 22, but connection refused 
for Port 25.


Jost



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Re: [mailop] Anyone on this List with Access to Amazon SES Maillogs?

[Jost Krieger via mailop]

Am 17. Mai 2019 16:42:17 MESZ schrieb John R Levine via mailop 
:

>No, you're refusing the connections.  When I connect via an IPv6 tunnel
>
>from HE you refuse the connection, when I connect from a VPS somewhere 
>else, you accept it.  Traceroutes show it's going to you, not anywhere 
>else.

For some value of "you". "Network is unreachable" points to a router, surely 
not a mail server.

Jost
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Re: [mailop] Admin: Gmail users of mailop suspended due to bounces.

[Jost Krieger via mailop]

Am 30. April 2019 09:08:34 MESZ schrieb Thomas Walter via mailop 
:


>We have a lot of students forwarding their emails to external mailboxes
>(usually freemailers even though they have more options here).
>
>I can show you all kinds of examples where the forwarding is rejected
>in
>those cases because the new "sending IPs" are from our machines, not
>the
>ones listed in the From's SPF record.
>

Same envelope forwarding is broken and has been broken for a long time, not at 
all related to SPF.

1. The majority of mail senders can hardly decipher a NDN, let alone a NDN for 
an address they didn't send to. They ignore it, reply to the Mailer-Daemon, or 
seek for help.
2. The original sender can never fix the problem.
3. Many misguided mail servers refuse all messages with an empty envelope 
sender, ignoring the RFC and the fact that there are a few other reasons than 
late bounces. The same mail servers tend to send many mails that ask for 
reading notifications. Forwarding usually produces late bounces.
4. There are obvious privacy problems with bounces after forwarding.
5. On the other hand, the forwarder usually can fix the problem, but doesn't 
get informed of it with same address forwarding.

My recommendation is to forward with a variant of the forwarders address that 
doesn't get forwarded (to prohibit loops).

SRS has all the same problems, btw.

Jost

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Re: [mailop] Admin: Gmail users of mailop suspended due to bounces.

[Jost Krieger via mailop]

Am 30. April 2019 04:45:54 MESZ schrieb Noel Butler via mailop 
:
>On 30/04/2019 05:35, Andreas Klein via mailop wrote:
>
>> so the SPF
>> check will fail if the FROM of the original message is retained and
>an
>> SPF record exists for that domain.
>
>ancient FUD 
>
>I was a  very, *very* early adopter of SPF, I always hear these claims,
>but my mails always get through SPF tests (much to the annoyance of
>some
>LOL), and I use hardfail -all. 

It's always a bad idea to say "from" in this context without specifying 
"envelope" or "header" and shouting doesn't help :-)

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