[mailop] Gmail

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

1. Re: Google Postmaster tools IP and Domain reputation data is last updated
on December 8th. - we saw same issue for our 39 cooking and crafting
newsletters.  However, it just updated a few hours ago in USA at least for
our data set.  So there was some outage and maybe now getting back to
normal. For us same reputations as before 'outage'. 

2. Re: Gmail - yes we are seeing same issue today again as we did yesterday:
550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist. Just
when we finished restoring the subscribers who hard bounced out in error
yesterday we saw problem start again today.  Our mail logs seem to indicate
problem stopped for us at about 4:30PM CT.   Gmail has confirmed the issue
is fixed:
https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&sid=1&iid=a8b67908fadee664c6
8c240ff9f529ab

---
Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6099 Fax | 847-513-6093 Direct


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[mailop] How Microsoft handles bounces

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Our tech team has been trying to look more closely into how Microsoft handles 
bounces. We are Return Path/Validity Sender Score Certified and have no known 
issues. We are a content creator in the arts and crafts and recipe niche 
content categories. In looking at an internal write-up it looks like the tech 
folks believe Microsoft handles bounces perhaps slightly differently than other 
ISP'. Does our review make sense?

1 - Microsoft does not appear to immediately bounce the message in the initial 
SMTP transaction.

2 - We have observed that Microsoft after a delay sends the bounce message back 
to the envelope sender. So, we enhanced our bounce processing process to handle 
any edge cases.

But it brought up some internal discussion if this was normal and if this was a 
change.  Any feedback welcome.  Thanks

---
Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6099 Fax | 847-513-6093 Direct

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Re: [mailop] How Microsoft handles bounces

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Al - thanks so much for the details.  We are just seeing on hard bounces and 
likely just Microsoft.   It came up when we were trying to analyze hard bounces 
from COI (confirmed opt in)  mailings to a new user at Microsoft. We are COI 
for all domains but noticed the asynchronous issue at Microsoft.   I’ll share 
some examples Monday if we saved.  Thank you. 



Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main - 847-513-6099 Fax.

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Al Iverson  wrote:
> 
> The common industry term for what you're referring to is "asynchronous
> bounce" (google it -- it'd help provide more background) and these are
> actually somewhat uncommon nowadays, as they contribute to a
> spam/annoyance problem called "backscatter" where somebody other than
> the sender gets unwanted mail in the form of that delayed bounce. Most
> big ISPs have moved to methodology where they try very hard to return
> any NDRs interactively during the initial SMTP delivery attempt to
> prevent backscatter. In theory, any bounces you'd be seeing like that
> would be only edge cases, not just common "user unknowns" from most
> consumer mailbox providers like Microsoft Outlook.com/Hotmail.com.
> 
> I haven't heard of Microsoft broadly using async bounce methodology
> lately. Short answer, not really seeing this in my data and I'd be
> surprised if it was something Microsoft was moving to-- since it's
> sort of considered out of date and is one of those things that was a
> past problem, since mostly solved. Not impossible, but seemingly
> unlikely.
> 
> Some broadcast email sending platforms utilize VERP as a way to easily
> handle asynchronous bounces (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_envelope_return_path ). But the
> amount of ISPs using async bounce methodology has reduced over time,
> it's sort of an open question as to whether or not you would want to
> bother implementing VERP on a platform that doesn't already have it.
> And VERP has its own issues, in that spam or junk sent to the VERP
> address could trigger the sending platform to log a bounce when it
> shouldn't. Which could result in suppressing mail to an address that
> isn't actually invalid. And you have to have an inbound email handling
> process for mail to the VERP bounce address, and if VERP bounce
> addresses end up on spam lists, you end up pointlessly processing
> other people's spam, wasting your own CPU cycles.
> 
> Hope that helps! Feel free to share more details on what you're seeing
> as desired and we'll see if others on the list have thoughts as well.
> 
> Cheers,
> Al Iverson
> 
> -- 
> Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago
> Deliverability: https://spamresource.com
> DNS Tools: https://xnnd.com
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 4:53 PM Stuart Hochwert via mailop
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Our tech team has been trying to look more closely into how Microsoft 
>> handles bounces. We are Return Path/Validity Sender Score Certified and have 
>> no known issues. We are a content creator in the arts and crafts and recipe 
>> niche content categories. In looking at an internal write-up it looks like 
>> the tech folks believe Microsoft handles bounces perhaps slightly 
>> differently than other ISP'. Does our review make sense?
>> 
>> 1 - Microsoft does not appear to immediately bounce the message in the 
>> initial SMTP transaction.
>> 
>> 2 - We have observed that Microsoft after a delay sends the bounce message 
>> back to the envelope sender. So, we enhanced our bounce processing process 
>> to handle any edge cases.
>> 
>> But it brought up some internal discussion if this was normal and if this 
>> was a change.  Any feedback welcome.  Thanks
>> 
>> ---
>> Stuart Hochwert
>> shochw...@primecp.com
>> Prime Publishing LLC
>> 3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
>> Northbrook, IL 60062
>> 847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6099 Fax | 847-513-6093 Direct
>> 
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[mailop] SORBS contact

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Re:  SORBS contact

We are confirmed opt-in.  So we send a COI request before adding an email to 
our database. Every few years our confirmation server picks up a SORBS listing. 
 In fact it happened this month, first time since 2018. Their site is a tad 
hard to navigate, maybe since we login rarely, but we created a ticket and got 
the listing removed within a few hours.  I suggest you create an account. Then 
create a ticket from your account.  

---
Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6099 Fax | 847-513-6093 Direct

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Re: [mailop] SORBS contact

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Yes.  Opened 8/21/21 and response a few hours later.  I recall maybe having to 
do it twice.  At the time I thought maybe I pressed a wrong button.  But 
handled quickly.  Confirmation said there were 11 tickets ahead of us so 
resolution was quick.  Hope this helps.



Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main - 847-513-6099 Fax.

On Aug 23, 2021, at 4:30 PM, Lukas Tribus  wrote:



On Monday, 23 August 2021, Stuart Hochwert 
mailto:shochw...@primecp.com>> wrote:
Re:  SORBS contact

We are confirmed opt-in.  So we send a COI request before adding an email to 
our database. Every few years our confirmation server picks up a SORBS listing. 
 In fact it happened this month, first time since 2018. Their site is a tad 
hard to navigate, maybe since we login rarely, but we created a ticket and got 
the listing removed within a few hours.  I suggest you create an account. Then 
create a ticket from your account.


I do have an account, and I did try the open a ticket.

Their systems falls over when trying to open a ticket, with the error messages 
provided in my first mail.

Did you succesfully open a ticket within the last 7 days?


thanks,
lukas

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Re: [mailop] Anyone else noticing comcast.net backing up....

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Looks nice issues at Comcast started up again last 2 hours.  Cleared up last
night about 10PM and was fine for about 12 hours.  

---
Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6099 Fax | 847-513-6093 Direct


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Re: [mailop] SBC Global Contact

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Ken - 

We have had this too when we add a new IP. Sometimes we find it was on some
internal block list. SBC is managed by AT&T as I recall.  You e-mail:
abuse_...@abuse-att.net

The block message may contain the link or e-mail as I recall.  Sometimes
they respond in 12 hours, typically 1 - 2 days. And sometimes you need to
submit again after a few days. 

They have been responsive and fixed the block. 

My notes indicate ATT manages e-mail for some streams for SBC Global,
Bellsouth and some smaller former Bells.

---
Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6099 Fax | 847-513-6093 Direct


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Re: [mailop] mailop Digest, Vol 40, Issue 38

[Stuart Hochwert via mailop]

Re:
Anyone else seeing issues connecting to comcast.net MX servers today? 
We've got emails piling up in queue and connection failures all over.

We have been seeing issue since about 10AM CT at Comcast.  I have seen some 
consumers on the down detector sites say no e-mail since same time.  

Also saw AT&T, BellSouth and SBCGlobal have issues from 11AM - 11:30AM CT today.

We send cooking and crafting content primarily for females.  


---
Stuart Hochwert
shochw...@primecp.com
Prime Publishing LLC
3400 Dundee Road, Suite 220
Northbrook, IL 60062
847-205-9375 Main | 847-513-6093 Direct

-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of mailop-requ...@mailop.org
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2023 1:29 PM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: mailop Digest, Vol 40, Issue 38

Send mailop mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
mailop-ow...@mailop.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of mailop digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Yahoo Feedback Loop (Mike Hammett)
   2. Re: Convincing clients of the importance of eMail recipient
  consent for mailing list subscriptions (Marco Moock)
   3. Re: Convincing clients of the importance of eMail recipient
  consent for mailing list subscriptions
  (Randolf Richardson, Postmaster)
   4. Comcast issues? (jarl...@mxroute.com)
   5. Re: Convincing clients of the importance of eMail recipient
  consent for mailing list subscriptions (Marco Moock)
   6. Re: Comcast issues? (Paul Ebersman)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2023 12:50:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Hammett 
To: Mike Hammett 
Cc: mailop 
Subject: Re: [mailop] Yahoo Feedback Loop
Message-ID:
<1143667006.2056.170039263.JavaMail.mhammett@Thunderfuck2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Ah, I missed it because the "Original-Rcpt-To:" was a non-Yahoo domain. For 
future reference, that's the line in the header you're looking for. 




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett via mailop" 
To: "mailop" 
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2023 8:50:37 AM
Subject: [mailop] Yahoo Feedback Loop 


What do you do when someone keeps reporting conversations on a mailman mailing 
list that is opt-in only to Yahoo? 

It seems like they forgot they were on NANOG and are now reporting every 
message sent to it. 




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 


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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:54:24 +0100
From: Marco Moock 
To: mailop@mailop.org
Cc: rand...@inter-corporate.com
Subject: Re: [mailop] Convincing clients of the importance of eMail
recipient consent for mailing list subscriptions
Message-ID: <20231127195424.7d1e7...@ryz.home.arpa>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Am 27.11.2023 um 10:42:58 Uhr schrieb Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop:

>   Many marketing people seem to be terrified of the idea of users 
> having to confirm their consent when subscribing to a mailing list 
> (e.g., by following a unique link in an eMail message to complete the 
> process).  The marketers almost always say "it will be too complicated 
> for the average user," and want to eliminate the confirmation step 
> altogether (which is not an ethical approach from my perspective).

Tell them that not doing opt-in will make them spammers and that the servers of 
your company will be listed in blacklists, so you cannot reach anybody until 
that listing is expired.

Without a confirmation, everybody can simply subscribe any address and that 
will be abused.

Even the confirmation messages can already be used for mass mailing if an 
abuser submits the form many times for many addresses.


--

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:04:33 -0800
From: "Randolf Richardson, Postmaster"

To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Convincing clients of the importance of eMail
recipient consent for mailing list subscriptions
Message-ID: <6564e841.23674.76d4...@postmaster.inter-corporate.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Am 27.11.2023 um 10:42:58 Uhr schrieb Randolf Richardson, Postmaster 
> via mailop:
> 
> > Many m