Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
You can fix the bounce handling problem for 97%+ of the bounces. You just have to put in a lot of effort to make it smarter (which LinkedIn should put in). Or they can buy a custom bouncehandler from us ;-). So I don't agree to the 'just keep emailing and ignore bounces' thing either. And I don't see why the 550's, telling that there is a technical issue in your PTR, do not count (after a number of those). Because you either fix the issue or stop mailing to recipients that will not receive it. A month is a fine time to fix issues (any issue). Met vriendelijke groet, David Hofstee Deliverability Management MailPlus B.V. Netherlands (ESP) - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van: "Michelle Sullivan" Aan: "Brandon Long" Cc: "mailop" Verzonden: Woensdag 17 augustus 2016 01:19:27 Onderwerp: Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here? Brandon Long wrote: > I'm not sure what they're supposed to do. Bounce handling/hard failing wouldn't be a bad thing... I have facebook getting 550 User Unknown for the same email address for over 6 months now that's when it gets ridiculous... (Well done Steve for the article on this problem) you know, I get with the whole ESP 5xx's are not hard fails argument (even though I disagree personally) .. but seriously... if the same email address gives you 5xx responses (particularly 550's) for a month you have to question the validity of the argument. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
>Isn't the '550 no user here' a good enough indication of this is not my >account? It's not my account, but it is my e-mail address. My gmail address is my name, and every once in a while someone else with a name similar to mine signs up for something and gives them my address with predictably annoying consequences. It is really impressive how persistent some of them are, e.g., a guy in Michigan who insisted for several days that I was his brother. I don't want to close the account, but it sure would be nice if the confirmation messages had a "not me" button. As it is, some of them I can do password recovery and close the account, some of them I argue with people saying no, I'm not the guy they're looking for (for one particularly persistent psychiatrist near Boston who kept signing me up for brokers that arrange hospital shifts, I got to the point that I was telling them he was dead), and a lot just gets reported as spam a few times until I stop seeing it. R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Yeah, I missed the 550 response part... at that point, yes, they should figure it out. Brandon On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Vernhout wrote: > Isn't the '550 no user here' a good enough indication of this is not my > account? > > ~ > Matt Vernhout > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Brandon Long via mailop > wrote: > > I'm not sure what they're supposed to do. > > If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's > not yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy. > > If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to > data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation. > > What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account". I've seen > that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a > validation message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has > a "this wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact. > > With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences > without any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting > the messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem. > > It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well. I'm not sure if > these specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so > you might be able to get them to stop that way. > > Brandon > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Michelle Sullivan > wrote: > >> Benoit Panizzon wrote: >> >>> Hi Michelle >>> >>> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, but I guess not >>> Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails >>> sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @ >>> apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails, >>> but upon close inspection, they looked genuine. >>> >>> So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the >>> data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where >>> they got that data from. >>> >>> Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID >>> obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of >>> that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending >>> that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID. >>> >>> So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into >>> that account, found all the billing and personal information from a >>> person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I >>> asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my >>> email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when >>> created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened >>> was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when >>> he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured >>> by that shop. >>> >>> Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's >> emails, access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud >> keychain), locate them, erase their devices etc.. such a security risk in >> the name of privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of >> the window when you use the 'recover password' function... along with >> security of any credit card associated with the account. >> >> -- >> Michelle Sullivan >> http://www.mhix.org/ >> >> >> ___ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop >> > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Isn't the '550 no user here' a good enough indication of this is not my account? ~ Matt Vernhout Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 16, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Brandon Long via mailop > wrote: > > I'm not sure what they're supposed to do. > > If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's not > yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy. > > If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to > data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation. > > What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account". I've seen > that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a validation > message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has a "this > wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact. > > With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences without > any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting the > messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem. > > It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well. I'm not sure if these > specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so you might > be able to get them to stop that way. > > Brandon > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Michelle Sullivan >> wrote: >> Benoit Panizzon wrote: >>> Hi Michelle >>> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, but I guess not >>> Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails >>> sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @ >>> apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails, >>> but upon close inspection, they looked genuine. >>> >>> So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the >>> data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where >>> they got that data from. >>> >>> Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID >>> obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of >>> that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending >>> that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID. >>> >>> So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into >>> that account, found all the billing and personal information from a >>> person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I >>> asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my >>> email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when >>> created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened >>> was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when >>> he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured >>> by that shop. >>> >> Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's emails, >> access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud keychain), >> locate them, erase their devices etc.. such a security risk in the name of >> privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of the window >> when you use the 'recover password' function... along with security of any >> credit card associated with the account. >> >> -- >> Michelle Sullivan >> http://www.mhix.org/ >> >> >> ___ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Brandon Long wrote: I'm not sure what they're supposed to do. Bounce handling/hard failing wouldn't be a bad thing... I have facebook getting 550 User Unknown for the same email address for over 6 months now that's when it gets ridiculous... (Well done Steve for the article on this problem) you know, I get with the whole ESP 5xx's are not hard fails argument (even though I disagree personally) .. but seriously... if the same email address gives you 5xx responses (particularly 550's) for a month you have to question the validity of the argument. If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's not yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy. If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation. ..and that was the point of my post in many ways... because no matter what you (I) do it's a violation of law or trust or privacy... Lose-Lose situation. What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account". I've seen that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a validation message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has a "this wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact. Or pay attention... I know some who have had a deluge of Facebook emails and they don't even have an account (because someone mis-typed.) With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences without any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting the messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem. It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well. I'm not sure if these specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so you might be able to get them to stop that way. Problem for me is if you get a hold of someone at Facebook, you get, "Oh it's policy"... If you block the messages people are up in arms "Facebook is too big to block are you stupid?"... I guess the answer is either publicly shame them, or attempt a court order to stop it.. and perhaps damages... which would get publicity... and maybe.. just maybe that would be enough to get someone to actually pay attention and make the change? Thoughts? -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
I'm not sure what they're supposed to do. If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's not yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy. If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation. What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account". I've seen that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a validation message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has a "this wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact. With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences without any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting the messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem. It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well. I'm not sure if these specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so you might be able to get them to stop that way. Brandon On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Michelle Sullivan wrote: > Benoit Panizzon wrote: > >> Hi Michelle >> >> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple >>> iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for >>> their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried >>> about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, >>> but I guess not >>> >> Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails >> sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @ >> apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails, >> but upon close inspection, they looked genuine. >> >> So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the >> data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where >> they got that data from. >> >> Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID >> obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of >> that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending >> that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID. >> >> So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into >> that account, found all the billing and personal information from a >> person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I >> asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my >> email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when >> created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened >> was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when >> he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured >> by that shop. >> >> Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's emails, > access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud keychain), > locate them, erase their devices etc.. such a security risk in the name of > privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of the window > when you use the 'recover password' function... along with security of any > credit card associated with the account. > > -- > Michelle Sullivan > http://www.mhix.org/ > > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Benoit Panizzon wrote: Hi Michelle Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, but I guess not Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @ apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails, but upon close inspection, they looked genuine. So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where they got that data from. Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID. So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into that account, found all the billing and personal information from a person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured by that shop. Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's emails, access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud keychain), locate them, erase their devices etc.. such a security risk in the name of privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of the window when you use the 'recover password' function... along with security of any credit card associated with the account. -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Hi Michelle > Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple > iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for > their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried > about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, > but I guess not Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @ apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails, but upon close inspection, they looked genuine. So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where they got that data from. Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID. So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into that account, found all the billing and personal information from a person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured by that shop. -BenoƮt Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Franck Martin wrote: Thanks, As with Apple, they used to remember your email address associated with your credit card, now, likely due to privacy/security concerns, when you want the receipt to be emailed to you, you need to type your email address each time. Now, many people do not know their email address especially when the system originally suggested for an already used email address was to add a number to the email address. michelle@mailbox is taken but michelle1@mailbox is free Apple does not email credit card details in receipts. Well like in all receipts, they only print the last 4 numbers of your credit card. Not worried about Apple so much the volume is one or two a week (and usually the same couple of accounts).. and really I know who to phone if it really becomes an issue with them ... it's Facebook and Twitter the worst of the worst at the moment... Thanks anyhow.. Michelle -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Thanks, As with Apple, they used to remember your email address associated with your credit card, now, likely due to privacy/security concerns, when you want the receipt to be emailed to you, you need to type your email address each time. Now, many people do not know their email address especially when the system originally suggested for an already used email address was to add a number to the email address. michelle@mailbox is taken but michelle1@mailbox is free Apple does not email credit card details in receipts. Well like in all receipts, they only print the last 4 numbers of your credit card. I'm not sure what is the solution here... On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Michelle Sullivan wrote: > Thoughts and suggestions people... > > I have about 2500 facebook and twitter accounts (current count) hitting my > server on a daily basis Neither Facebook nor Twitter seem to stop > sending to them even with 550 User Unknown messages at SMTP time everytime > they send... anyone know how to get these shut off, or would the only way > be "hijack" all 2500 accounts and delete them? > > (linked in on the other hand are doing the right thing it seems - they > stop sending after a couple of rejects..) > > Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple iCloud > accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for their > purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried about a > third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, but I guess > not > > Michelle > > -- > Michelle Sullivan > http://www.mhix.org/ > > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?
Thoughts and suggestions people... I have about 2500 facebook and twitter accounts (current count) hitting my server on a daily basis Neither Facebook nor Twitter seem to stop sending to them even with 550 User Unknown messages at SMTP time everytime they send... anyone know how to get these shut off, or would the only way be "hijack" all 2500 accounts and delete them? (linked in on the other hand are doing the right thing it seems - they stop sending after a couple of rejects..) Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, but I guess not Michelle -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop