[mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
Hello some people told me not to use .xyz domain b/c it's more spammers liked. may I ask if the big ESP or the open antispam policies have the preference on domains? such as com/net/org is preferred, but xyz/top/pro is not. Thanks ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
Dear wilson, wilson via mailop writes: > Hello > > some people told me not to use .xyz domain b/c it's more spammers liked. > may I ask if the big ESP or the open antispam policies have the > preference on domains? such as com/net/org is preferred, but > xyz/top/pro is not. Well i have no trouble with Gmail(Google Servers) and most mailing list servers such as Debian Project, GNU Project, etc., ... > Thanks Thanks, too! Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee -- ^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))// ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
> On 17 Apr 2022, at 23:57, wilson via mailop wrote: > > Hello > > some people told me not to use .xyz domain b/c it's more spammers liked. > may I ask if the big ESP or the open antispam policies have the preference on > domains? such as com/net/org is preferred, but xyz/top/pro is not. It’s a little more nuanced than that. Some of the ’non-standard’ domains have a huge amount of spam coming out of them. We were having a discussion about another TLD and one of the anti-spam vendors pointed out that of the mail they saw containing that TLD more than 90% was spam. They did not say they were blocking the TLD outright, though. It goes back to the spam filters as a bucket analogy. Every negative puts something in the bucket, every positive takes something out of the bucket. If the bucket overflows then mail is at risk. Using a not .com/.net/.org TLD can be a negative but that doesn’t necessarily mean all mail using it will be blocked. It just means you are starting with a slightly smaller bucket than you might have started with using a more standard TLD. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to have a huge problem. I have heard a lot of folks running systems (usually midsize or small) say they block all ‘weird’ TLDs on sight. I tend to recommend to clients that they stick with the standard ones. I’m not sure how extensive those blocks are, though. It just seems like an easy box to tick. laura -- The Delivery Experts Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
Dňa 18. apríla 2022 8:36:46 UTC používateľ Laura Atkins via mailop napísal: > >I have heard a lot of folks running systems (usually midsize or small) say >they block all ‘weird’ TLDs on sight. I tend to recommend to clients that they >stick with the standard ones. I’m not sure how extensive those blocks are, >though. It just seems like an easy box to tick. Interesting. While blocking TLDs can seem as simple solution of the problem, i consider it questionable, the simple solutions are often not the best nor good one. I will consider those who block TLDs as people who do not understand, that all TLDs are at the same level, it doesn't matter if they are generic (.org, .com, ), country (.us, .ru, .pl, ...) or these "new" (.xyz, .club, .bank, ...). They simple are "containers" to organize domain tree only and all domains inside these can be good, or bad, or can be "onetime", etc... Sure, some registrars can do it in way, which can be simple/attractive to spammers and some not. Some can be too new, thus noticed only by spammers yet... But (good) people often choose their domain TLDnot based on registrar or its domain reputation. And in really, i am receiving most of SPAM from .com domain (no surprise), have i to block it? I will compare TLDs blocking as network A class blocking, eg. block X.0.0.0/8 as 90 % mails from that class is SPAM, and we know that it can/will affect a lot of good IPs... Most of people here complains (and i agree), that /24 blocking is bad, not even /8, which nowadays mostly does not describe one actor, but multiple AS, country, clients... I meet multiple examples of TLD blacklists (hello fishy TLDs), eg. for rspamd, while to be honest, no one is doing real blocking, only adds something to bad score... I did TLD reputation counting (mostly to see results, not for scoring), but i abandon it as not reliable/useful after some time... Slavko ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
> On 18 Apr 2022, at 10:47, Slavko via mailop wrote: > > Dňa 18. apríla 2022 8:36:46 UTC používateľ Laura Atkins via mailop > napísal: >> >> I have heard a lot of folks running systems (usually midsize or small) say >> they block all ‘weird’ TLDs on sight. I tend to recommend to clients that >> they stick with the standard ones. I’m not sure how extensive those blocks >> are, though. It just seems like an easy box to tick. > > Interesting. While blocking TLDs can seem as simple solution of the problem, > i consider it questionable, > the simple solutions are often not the best nor good one. If 95% of the mail containing a particular TLD is spam, I can’t blame anyone for just blocking it all. I’ll commiserate with folks using domains in that TLD that it’s not fair that 95% of their neighbors are causing problems for the honest 5%. Then I’ll recommend they find a better TLD to use for their mail. > I will consider those who block TLDs as people who do not understand, that > all TLDs are at the same level, > it doesn't matter if they are generic (.org, .com, ), country (.us, .ru, > .pl, ...) or these "new" (.xyz, .club, .bank, ...). > They simple are "containers" to organize domain tree only and all domains > inside these can be good, or > bad, or can be "onetime", etc... Sure, some registrars can do it in way, > which can be simple/attractive to > spammers and some not. Some can be too new, thus noticed only by spammers > yet... But (good) people > often choose their domain TLDnot based on registrar or its domain reputation. > And in really, i am receiving > most of SPAM from .com domain (no surprise), have i to block it? Effective spam blocking is always about what will block the most unwanted mail while affecting the least amount of wanted mail. For smaller operators it’s often easier because the ‘what my users want’ is easier to determine and the incoming mailstreams are less diverse. The real challenge comes in when the same mail is unwanted mail for some percentage of users and wanted mail for a different percentage of people. We can all agree that there’s a point where we agree mail is good and should be delivered and there is a point where we agree that mail is bad and should not be delivered. Between the two points is a vast array of mail we disagree on. The network owners, particularly the big network owners, are tasked with sorting out that array of mail in the middle. That’s not a simple task and, yeah, sometimes they get it wrong. What’s the alternative? > I will compare TLDs blocking as network A class blocking, eg. block X.0.0.0/8 > as 90 % mails from that class > is SPAM, and we know that it can/will affect a lot of good IPs... Most of > people here complains (and i agree), > that /24 blocking is bad, not even /8, which nowadays mostly does not > describe one actor, but multiple AS, > country, clients... There’s only one group I know that blocks up to an entire ASN. That list is, in my experience, not widely used. I’m also not sure I’ve ever seen actual blocking based on a TLD. Still, most of us making recommendations for ‘how to get mail delivered’ tend to be rather conservative in our recommendations. Is using a non-standard TLD going to cause delivery problems? We don’t know. But we do know using a ’standard’ TLD won’t really hurt your delivery. So we tailor our advice to be conservative “this may not be contributing to the problem, but we just don’t know.” > I meet multiple examples of TLD blacklists (hello fishy TLDs), eg. for > rspamd, while to be honest, no one > is doing real blocking, only adds something to bad score... > > I did TLD reputation counting (mostly to see results, not for scoring), but i > abandon it as not reliable/useful > after some time... Yeah. For a while there was one TLD (.info? I think) that was scored so heavily in spamassassin that any mail using it was filtered by default. That was quite a while ago now and I don’t believe the scoring is the same these days. I don’t believe folks are blocking based on TLDs. I also recommend that senders stick to the more common and ’standard’ TLDs. I don’t actually see a contradiction here. laura -- The Delivery Experts Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
I am sorry that one small operator has noticed me by PM that he does block email based on TLDs such as this one I am using. Laura Atkins via mailop wrote: I don’t believe folks are blocking based on TLDs. I also recommend that senders stick to the more common and ’standard’ TLDs. I don’t actually see a contradiction here. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] does ESP have the preference for email domains
Actually, it's not a strict block, but we temp reject first, and switch to accept or reject with a mitigation web form address. So, don't let our policy discourage you! Cheers, Hans-Martin Am 18. April 2022 13:15:09 schrieb wilson via mailop : I am sorry that one small operator has noticed me by PM that he does block email based on TLDs such as this one I am using. Laura Atkins via mailop wrote: I don’t believe folks are blocking based on TLDs. I also recommend that senders stick to the more common and ’standard’ TLDs. I don’t actually see a contradiction here. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
