Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
On Fri 05/Jul/2024 23:21:17 +0200 Jeff Pang via mailop wrote: OT question, can return-path be customized by sender MTA/MUA? Or must it be envelope? Return-path, envelop sender, bounce address and MAIL FROM are all synonyms for the same thing. Mailing lists always change it when they forward a message. Mass mailers do so as well. Some plain forwarders, à la dot-forward, change it, either to satisfy SPF (SRS) or in order to have bounces reach someone who can remove the relevant forwarding recipe when its target is removed at the other end. Some others keep it intact, in order to let the original sender become aware of bounces (and thus reveal the final destination.) Best Ale -- ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
OT question, can return-path be customized by sender MTA/MUA? Or must it be envelope? July 6, 2024 at 1:45 AM, "Mark Fletcher" wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 5:31 AM Jeff Pang via mailop > > wrote: > > > > > When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we > > > > take? The envelope address, or the header From address? > > > > For email subscriptions, we use the header From address. > > > > For email to a list, we look at the header From, Reply-To and then envelope > > address, in that order, to determine if they are a subscriber. > > Cheers, > > Mark > Jeff Pang jeffp...@aol.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
Great to know this point Thanks Victor. And I think this is the reason why DMARC uses header address for DKIM/SPF not envelope address. July 6, 2024 at 12:02 AM, "Viktor Dukhovni via mailop" wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 05, 2024 at 07:45:10PM +0800, Jeff Pang via mailop wrote: > > > > > When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we > > > > take? The envelope address, or the header From address? > > > > The envelope sender address is the address to use for bounces, SPF and > > little else. It can change in transit (e.g. SRS). Therefore, you > > should use the *header* "From:" address, which is also the address that > > replies would typically go to, ... > > The actual email address of the message author appears in the "From:" > > header, and that's the address that is requesting to join the list. > > -- > > Viktor. > > ___ > > mailop mailing list > > mailop@mailop.org > > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > Jeff Pang jeffp...@aol.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
It appears that Jeff Pang via mailop said: >Hello > >When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we >take? The envelope address, or the header From address? This is a religious argument, but the One True Religion is the header From. I used to use ezmlm which used the envelope address and it was a pain. R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 5:31 AM Jeff Pang via mailop wrote: > > When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we > take? The envelope address, or the header From address? > > For email subscriptions, we use the header From address. For email to a list, we look at the header From, Reply-To and then envelope address, in that order, to determine if they are a subscriber. Cheers, Mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
On Fri 05/Jul/2024 15:00:45 +0200 Jaroslaw Rafa wrote: Dnia 5.07.2024 o godz. 19:45:10 Jeff Pang via mailop pisze: When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we take? The envelope address, or the header From address? I think you should follow the best practice, ie. how it is implemented in the predominant mailing list software (eg. mailman). That's right. It is incredible how little standardization exists about mailing lists. For Mailman 3, there are sentences like this: While configurable, the sender addresses by default are those named in the From:, Sender:, and Reply-To: headers, as well as the envelope sender (though we won’t worry about the latter). https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/runners/docs/incoming.html#sender-addresses The complicate setup can work around several problems at the crossroads of various standards, but there is no standard. Best Ale -- ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
On Fri, Jul 05, 2024 at 07:45:10PM +0800, Jeff Pang via mailop wrote: > When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we > take? The envelope address, or the header From address? The envelope sender address is the address to use for bounces, SPF and little else. It can change in transit (e.g. SRS). Therefore, you should use the *header* "From:" address, which is also the address that replies would typically go to, ... The actual email address of the message author appears in the "From:" header, and that's the address that is requesting to join the list. -- Viktor. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
Dnia 5.07.2024 o godz. 19:45:10 Jeff Pang via mailop pisze: > > When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we > take? The envelope address, or the header From address? I think you should follow the best practice, ie. how it is implemented in the predominant mailing list software (eg. mailman). You can check the documentation for such software or even check the code itself if in doubt. -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
Am 05.07.2024 um 19:45:10 Uhr schrieb Jeff Pang via mailop: > When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we > take? The envelope address, or the header From address? Both should match in that case. > In the mailop life, I saw many sender addresses in header are > different than the envelope addresses. This is the behavior of mailing lists. The MAIL FROM: envelope address will be used for bounces. If you post to a mailing list, you don't want to receive the bounce of subscribers addresses that are undeliverable (e.g. mailbox full, account deleted etc.). > For instance, > 1. use gmail to send email from address other than gmail > 2. Freenet.de 's aliases, when sending with alias, the header From > address is different with envelope address. The MAIL FROM will be matched by SPF and that will fail if you relay it to any other external machine that checks it. -- Gruß Marco Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1720201510mu...@cartoonies.org ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] envelope or header address?
Jeff Pang via mailop skrev den 2024-07-05 13:45: When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we take? envelope The envelope address, or the header From address? from is not smtp In the mailop life, I saw many sender addresses in header are different than the envelope addresses. this is as it should be from forwarders, like maillists For instance, 1. use gmail to send email from address other than gmail 2. Freenet.de 's aliases, when sending with alias, the header From address is different with envelope address. irellevant ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] envelope or header address?
Hello When an user requests to join mailing list, which address should we take? The envelope address, or the header From address? In the mailop life, I saw many sender addresses in header are different than the envelope addresses. For instance, 1. use gmail to send email from address other than gmail 2. Freenet.de 's aliases, when sending with alias, the header From address is different with envelope address. Thanks. -- Jeff Pang jeffp...@aol.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
