Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
Dnia 8.10.2019 o godz. 14:05:20 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > At one point when I was complaining about the Gmail UI for that, I did a > survey, and several competing products used the exact opposite > iconography for spam/trask, > just leading to more user confusion... and us making sure to use something > very different for report spam. No idea if it helped or not for our > reports, people still use report spam as "I don't want to receive this any > more". I wonder if this couldn't be something what accidentally happened to me. Someone could "delete" all their email - including my messages - by moving it into spam folder (and I know that among the people who I corresponded with there are at least two people who recently changed email addresses and moved off of Gmail, so it is possible they deleted all email before deleting the account) and that's why Google started suddenly classifying my emails as spam. Is there any way for the sender to protect against such users' behaviour, ie. being inadvertently classified as spam? BTW. did you receive my email with the test messages I sent to Google? -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 03:55:10PM +0200, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: > Yet another one, reported a work report with full salary detail from > his employer, not aware that Microsoft would forward that sensitive data > to our abuse desk. This one, at least, smells like it might be a GDPR risk, at a bare minimum. - Matt ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 12:01:20PM -0700, Luis E. Muñoz via mailop wrote: > On 8 Oct 2019, at 6:55, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: > > 3: Try to make it more obvious in the documentation of that junk > > folder, that moving emails there will lead to a complaint to the > > senders ISP. > > I've always believed that "junk" is too subtle – although English is not my > first language. I suppose lawyers had a significant say in the selection of > this term. English is my first language, and I can confirm that "junk" is a terrible word to use to refer to UBE. I have a shed full of what is commonly referred to as "junk", and not only do I not want to get rid it, I would be saddened if I never got any more of it (although my wife would, on the whole, not share that emotion). - Matt ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
I've noticed when using Gmail that I can trash a message, or I can report it as spam and (sometimes) choose between "report" and "report and unsubscribe." But I don't think I can "trash and unsubscribe," and I don't think there's a way (other than scrolling through the message looking for a unsubscribe link) to just unsubscribe without reporting as spam. If that's correct, maybe it helps to explain why people "people still use report spam as 'I don't want to receive this any more'." On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 2:13 PM Brandon Long via mailop wrote: > At one point when I was complaining about the Gmail UI for that, I did a > survey, and several competing products used the exact opposite > iconography for spam/trask, > just leading to more user confusion... and us making sure to use something > very different for report spam. No idea if it helped or not for our > reports, people still use report spam as "I don't want to receive this any > more". > > Brandon > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 12:03 PM Luis E. Muñoz via mailop < > mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On 8 Oct 2019, at 6:55, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: >> >> > 3: Try to make it more obvious in the documentation of that junk >> > folder, that moving emails there will lead to a complaint to the >> > senders ISP. >> >> I've always believed that "junk" is too subtle – although English is >> not my first language. I suppose lawyers had a significant say in the >> selection of this term. >> >> I've run into people who are obviously confused between "junk" and >> "trash" folders. >> >> Best regards >> >> -lem >> >> ___ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop >> > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > -- === Russell Clemings === ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
On 10/8/19 3:05 PM, Brandon Long via mailop wrote: … people still use report spam as "I don't want to receive this any more". I'd like to see MUAs get smart enough to question what needs to be done when people indicate "I don't want to receive this any more". If the message passes all contemporary hygiene tests and has the RFC 8058 list-unsubscribe headers, consider asking "Do you want to delete this message? / Unsubscribe from this (legitimate) mailing list? / Report this message as spam?". -- Grant. . . . unix || die smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
At one point when I was complaining about the Gmail UI for that, I did a survey, and several competing products used the exact opposite iconography for spam/trask, just leading to more user confusion... and us making sure to use something very different for report spam. No idea if it helped or not for our reports, people still use report spam as "I don't want to receive this any more". Brandon On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 12:03 PM Luis E. Muñoz via mailop wrote: > > > On 8 Oct 2019, at 6:55, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: > > > 3: Try to make it more obvious in the documentation of that junk > > folder, that moving emails there will lead to a complaint to the > > senders ISP. > > I've always believed that "junk" is too subtle – although English is > not my first language. I suppose lawyers had a significant say in the > selection of this term. > > I've run into people who are obviously confused between "junk" and > "trash" folders. > > Best regards > > -lem > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
On 8 Oct 2019, at 6:55, Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote: 3: Try to make it more obvious in the documentation of that junk folder, that moving emails there will lead to a complaint to the senders ISP. I've always believed that "junk" is too subtle – although English is not my first language. I suppose lawyers had a significant say in the selection of this term. I've run into people who are obviously confused between "junk" and "trash" folders. Best regards -lem ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?
Hi Chris I have exactly the same issue. I have found a hotmail user who made rule to 'save' all emails from a whole list of 'known friends' sender to the 'junk' folder. Causing an immediate Spam Complaint from Microsoft every time one of our customers sends that hotmail user an email. The hotmail user does not understand what she did wrong. I had another hotmail user deleting multiple year old emails by moving them all to the junk folder. Causing us to receive several complaint sent by one customer that recipient was in contact with one year and more ago. Yet another one, reported a work report with full salary detail from his employer, not aware that Microsoft would forward that sensitive data to our abuse desk. And also a nuisance are real spam emails which our users (possibly after disabling spam filtering on their account with us) forward to their hotmail account and then report as spam. I have notified the Microsoft Abuse Desk about those often reoccurring 'false' complaints. I have notified the sender of those complaints. No reaction. The solution would be easy: 1: Define a cut-off date. Don't send reports if a user moves an email older than say 14 days to the spam folder. 2: If a user moves an email to the spam folder, throw an POP-UP or something similar to him and make him confirm he does want to report that emails as spam. 3: Try to make it more obvious in the documentation of that junk folder, that moving emails there will lead to a complaint to the senders ISP. 4: Better recognition of forwarded emails: If the origin IP Address of the reported spam is in the same range as the MX for the original recipient in the To: Header and the Received: header, and possibly SRS signed From: header also all hint to a forwarding situation, please consider the Received: of the forwarder to be trusted and report it to the ISP of the Received: before that header. So if anyone on that list has a better connection to Microsoft and could hint them to those issues, that would be great. I don't suggest Microsoft should stop reporting spam. It is a great help. I would say about half of the reports we get are legit and help us block phished accounts in a timely manner. But some attempts could be done to lower the ratio of false positives. Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
