RE: VIRGIL: paid for propaganda?
Salvete! Let's not judge Horace nor Virgil per our standards. Kings supporting poets go along way back and kings and queens' support for poets contributed greatly to the flowering of poetry. Besides, the burning question of that time was the Roman character, and poets now and before have had their say in the matter. So, Horace and Virgil are giving the Romans a messianic mission per the older days. Valete! Ariel >From: Adrian Pay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: VIRGIL: paid for propaganda? >Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:22:54 - > >In contrast to Horace, for example, who spent time in the paid employ of >Augustus as a kind of civil servant, Vergil seems to have substantial means >of his own. But, although I can't remember the details, I think Vergil did >receive substantial sums of money and/or land from Augustus. > >Good places to start looking:- the Vergilian "Lives"; Suetonius' Life of > Augustus. > >There is a book by Oliver Lyne on Horace's political poetry with stuff on >Horace's means and the rewards he got from Augustus, which contrasts >Horace's position with Vergil's. > >Fairly vague, but might provide a starting point. > >Remember also that monetary reward was not the only incentive/pressure to >promote Augustan values. > >Adrian Pay > >-Original Message- >From: Monique Bouquet [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 6:53 AM >To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: VIRGIL: paid for propaganda? > > > >Rebecca Smyth wrote: > >> Salvete! >> >> I read a suggestion that we should not believe that Virgil was a paid >> court poet writing propaganda for his patron. >> I'm not sure that I agree with this, but reflecting on it has brought >> several questions to my mind. >> >> Virgil's patron provided him with the leisure to write his poetry. >> Was the poet therefore showing his gratitude by writing propaganda? >> >> Was Virgil making the most of this opportunity to write his poetry at >> leisure? >> Did he really desire to promote Augustus, or was he trying to show how >> ridiculous the Emperor might be? >> Was the "propaganda" actually humourous? >> >> If anyone could help to settle my confusion, I would be very grateful. >> >> Rebecca Smyth > >Un ouvrage francais "La mort de Virgile" de J. Y Maleuvre demontre que les >relations entre Virgile et Auguste n'etaient pas des plus amicales et >qu'Auguste aurait commandite la mort de Virgile >Cordialement >M.Bouquet > >> >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> --- >> To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >> Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >> "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >> can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > >--- >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub >--- >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: REPLY REQUIRED: The Classics Pages Subscription Verify (fwd)
>From: Kimberly Tate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: VIRGIL: REPLY REQUIRED: The Classics Pages Subscription Verify (fwd) >Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 21:07:33 -0500 (EST) > > > > >Kimberly Tate [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >-- Forwarded message -- >Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 21:32:00 + >From: ListBot Verifier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: REPLY REQUIRED: The Classics Pages Subscription Verify > >Thank you for your request to join a ListBot list! > >YOU MUST REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO JOIN THE LIST. > >== Simply reply with a blank message to join. == > >The list owner has included the following welcome message: >=== >Welcome to the Classics Pages Mailing list! >I hope to be sending out a letter about once a fortnight, with details of >recent updates or additions to the site: and perhaps occasionally to >direct attention to some old, but possibly neglected part of the site. > >Have you tried the Oedipus Game? >(http://www.globalnet.co.uk/~loxias/oedipus/oedipusindex.htm) >Have you found any bugs ot typos? > >Thanks for joining, and hope to keep in touch. > >Andrew >=== > >This verification message is used to confirm that we are able to send >you mail, and protects you in case someone forges a subscription >request in your name. If you believe this was a forged subscription >request, ignore this message and you will not be added to the mailing >list. > >If you are having problems using the reply function in your e-mail >client, the address to respond to is: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Please visit http://www.listbot.com/ if you have more questions about >the ListBot service. > >Thanks! > >Sincerely, > >The ListBot Team >Part of the LinkExchange family at http://www.linkexchange.com/ > > > >--- >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Helen's Abduction
Ave! On question #1: Odysseus is in a situation that he is totally helpless. His situation also points to an exile and exile is a hard thing in his times. These two points might help in understanding Odysseus' tears. On question #2: His name, I think, came from his relatives after a hunting episode where a boar attacked him but he managed to kill the boar. So, I think, Odysseus is a name that denotes "trouble". He is trouble. Vale, Ariel >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Feb 11 13:01:50 1999 >Received: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by wilsoninet.com (8.8.5) id NAA22569; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:26:16 -0700 (MST) >Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:26:17 -0800 >Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: Jack Kolb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: VIRGIL: Helen's Abduction >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >This fascinating (and to me educational) discussion emboldens me--who knows >only a little Latin, and no Greek--to ask three questions which are outside >the parameters of Virgil. The first is slightly analogous to the Helen >question. > >1. Is Odysseus supposed to be held by Calypso entirely against his will? >In other words, is he, during the years of captivity, constantly pining to >return to Ithaca, and a reluctant "sex slave"? Or does he succumb to the >charms of the nymph? I'm especially interested in classical commentators on >this issue. > >2. Is the derivation of Odysseus' name in any way connected with the wound >he received as a youth? One of my older and brighter students in one of my >Joyce classes told me he had heard this, but couldn't supply a source. > >3. Years ago I was told that the phrase used by Nixon's vice-president, >Spiro Agnew, to characterize the conservative heart of America, the "silent >majority," was a tag that Homer used to describe the dead. Is this true? > >Many thanks in advance for the collective wisdom of the list. > >Jack Kolb >Dept. of English, UCLA >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >--- >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Helen's Abduction
Salvete! According to Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, Helen didn't mind at all. AM >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Feb 10 16:42:03 1999 >Received: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by wilsoninet.com (8.8.5) id RAA27312; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:06:25 -0700 (MST) >X-Authentication-Warning: wilsoninet.com: Host f235.hotmail.com [207.82.251.126] claimed to be hotmail.com >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >X-Originating-IP: [202.37.173.1] >From: "Rebecca Smyth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: VIRGIL: Helen's Abduction >Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:06:01 PST >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Salvete! > >I have the pleasure and honour of teaching Classical Studies to a class >of 17 year old young ladies and our current topic is the Aeneid. > >One of my students asked me today whether or not Helen minded being >given as a gift to Paris and therefore whether or not she was abducted. > >I hope someone is able to help me with answering this question >satisfactorily. > >I would greatly apreciate any comments on this so that my students and I >can have an informed and intelligent discussion. > >Thank you very much, >Rebecca Smyth. > >__ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--- >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
