Re: VIRGIL: Nefarious conjugals with fortunate race
I ask the list to forgive me if the following all seems a little self-indulgent. It is Sunday morning, and I really am going to finish writing up a Beowulf lecture in a moment.Throughout this discussion, I have thought again and again (and I do think this has been touched on in it ) of how a writer who has taken a rhetoric developed for the law court or political debate deeply into his patterns of thought and _expression_ will not boggle to use anything that comes to hand to make (or rather win) a point at a particular moment in his argument even though his treatment of a topic may be apparently contradicted by his use of it two minutes or fifty lines later. I am thinking particularly of Augustine, but I suspect this habit makes it more difficult to decide generally in Latin literature well into the late empire whether we are faced with a true interior ambiguity or merely the impetus of the moment's argument. Perhaps this ought to be less true of the poet, and Vergil may well have been more honest in his persuasion than Augustine. I suspect this is slightly off topic - but it does seem apposite to me: what does the list think of Ramsay Macmullen's Romanization in the Time of Augustus. I have been reading it (yes, an important work for the understanding of the orthography of the Nowell manuscript scribes) while this thread has been unwound - and feeling a little like Virgil at the end of Georgics IV. Leaving aside that my copy, which was admittedly picked up on a remainders table, is very badly printed after page 132, and that I cannot really agree that the style is 'clear and readable' as someone claims on the cover, it is a deeply stimulating book whose attitude towards Roman acculturation is worth discussion and is a salutary reminder that we ought not read the present automatically into the past. I found it interesting in the context of the discussion on Egypt that at p134 he asserts that Agrippa's and Augustus' patronage of building projects,, an important factor in acculturation was essentially payed for by the wealth of Egypt. I can't help mentioning either that at p.123 he claims Romans introduced one of the true glories of Egyptian civilization (and I am not being ironic ), the domestic cat, to Gaul. To be quite fair, I must bear witness that 'Approval or admiration or envy, any of these lovely things that could be won from one's community' (p.113) is an enviable turn of phrase. Macmullen's last pages also recalled to me that surely 'barbarus' in Eclogue 1.70 is not an actual 'barbarian' but only 'barbarus' in his actions. Surely he would be a legionary veteran of the civil wars, quite possibly someone with connections to the area - unless in the rush of geography and movement of peoples in the preceding lines here is a further subconscious world-turned upside down image of Latins at the fringes and barbarians at the heart, a downward spiral of impius miles followed by barbarus. Perhaps this is merely the confusion of a medievalist wandering in Vergil (gawping like one of my ancestors in the forum), but in the heat of discussion and exposition in many books and lectures, it has often seemed as if we are reacting to the character as an actual barbarian. Not that being displaced by a returning local could make it any better for Meliboeus.Back to Beowulf. He is about to take Unferth very properly apart in a way that would make Cicero proud. In fact, Clodia was lucky Cicero didn't have him as junior counsel. The glorious gifts of Egyptian civilization who run this house have just arrived - Beowulf may have to wait a little longer.Helen Conrad-O'Briain
Re: VIRGIL: Re: homer lexicon
How times change! My copy is pushing thirty and holding up well! Helen COB On 23 Jan 2004, at 18:11, david connor wrote: You'll probably get many references to Cunliffe's Homeric Lexicon, the most useful tool I've found for reading Homer. University of Oklahoma Press. Binding is poorly made, so the book falls apart rapidly. Available from Amazon. -Original Message- From: Perry Tavenner Sent: Jan 22, 2004 11:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: VIRGIL: Greek/Latin Dictionary Anyone Hello: I am working as a tutor and I have a few bright students going slowly through Homer and Vergil and I was wondering if anyone had information on a good (Ancient) Greek/Latin dictionary. Does such a thing exist? Thanks, Perry Tavenner Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Standard checks for Vergil texts
What would the list suggest as passages to use for tests of text affiliations in manuscripts or early printed books ? Helen COB --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Kaster volume?
Venier's 'Per una storia del testo di Virgilio nella prima eta del libro a stampa' arrived this morning, and I stumbled across something quite interesting in the bibliography: R. A. Kaster, The tradition of the text of the Aeneid in the ninth century, New York, 1990. I assume that this is his Harvard dissertation published -, but I have never seen a reference to it before. Has anyone seen it? Does anyone know the publisher and ISBN number? Helen COB --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: The furor of Amata
x-richTry fontfamilyparamNew York/paramsmallerCourcelle, Pierre, underlineLecteurs/underline underlinePaïns/underline underlineet/underline underlinelecteurs/underline underlineChrétiens/underline underlinede/underline underlinel'Enéide/underline, 2 vols. vol. 1: for references in other authors up to - I think it is about 1000; vol. 2 for later manuscript illumination. I looked at Thilo and Hagen, which you have probably done already, and couldn't find anything useful (odd). Although he appears to have been woefully neglected, it might be worth looking at T. Claudius Donatus. I have the miniatures from the Vatican Vergil at hand and there is no sign of Amata. Helen COB Trinity Dublin/smaller/fontfamily On Wednesday, September 11, 2002, at 02:03 AM, James Stewart wrote: excerpt I'm working on tacitus' use of furor in relation to Messalina (Claudius' wife) and I remembered the Aeneid passage with Amata raging out of control (like a top) in Aeneid 7. I seem to recall reading it as an undergrad over 20 years ago. Does anyone have any current thoughts on the role of Amata and her madness (or, better yet, any images of it in medieval or modern art)? Seems a peculiarly feminist topic, although Tacitus certainly uses it to refer to the madness of soldiers fairly frequently (Hist. 1,63, 1.81, 2.46 and 4.27, as well as Annals 1.49. It is used for women in Annals 14.32, where he describes the causes of the Boudican revolt in Britain. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions. Cheers, Dr. James Stewart Southern Illinois University _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub /excerpt/x-rich From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Sep 11 11:05:59 2002 X-Mozilla-Status: 0010 X-Mozilla-Status2: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by wilsonwork.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g8BBZCk03445 for mantovano-coke; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:35:12 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: wilsonwork.com: wilsonwk set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:04:51 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: James Butrica [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VIRGIL: The furor of Amata Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-UIDL: '7o!JZ=!!9?_!?+b! I'm working on tacitus' use of furor in relation to Messalina (Claudius' wife) and I remembered the Aeneid passage with Amata raging out of control (like a top) in Aeneid 7. I seem to recall reading it as an undergrad over 20 years ago. Does anyone have any current thoughts on the role of Amata and her madness (or, better yet, any images of it in medieval or modern art)? Seems a peculiarly feminist topic, although Tacitus certainly uses it to refer to the madness of soldiers fairly frequently (Hist. 1,63, 1.81, 2.46 and 4.27, as well as Annals 1.49. It is used for women in Annals 14.32, where he describes the causes of the Boudican revolt in Britain. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions. Cheers, Dr. James Stewart Southern Illinois University Is there anything relevant in Alison Keith's fairly recent book on women in epic (Gendering Epic I think was the title)? James L. P. Butrica Department of Classics The Memorial University of Newfoundland St. John's NL A1C 5S7 (709) 737-7914 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Early Vergil printings and another request
This sounds exactly what we need here! Thanks Helen COB On Wednesday, August 28, 2002, at 12:02 AM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: At 11:35 AM 8/23/2002 -0400, I wrote: ... the situation is hopeless for anything beyond the Carolingian period -- until c. 1470, when Virgil gets into print. Looks like I spoke too soon. I've spent a couple of very happy days with Venier, and among the many topics he deals with in _Per una storia del testo di Virgilio nella prima eta\ del libro a stampa (1469-1519)_ is the character of la vulgata umanistica in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Of special interest are the interpolated verses that do not appear in Carolingian MSS. (including some verses that appear to derive, by way of a composite vita, from Servius auctus). See ch. 1, Osservazioni sulla tradizione manoscritta nei secoli XIV e XV. On the subject of Venier's book more generally, I mentioned its appearance in February and posted a translation of its contents (see below, with some additions). My first impressions were positive, and now that I've actually read the thing I'm happy to report that, on closer inspection, the book is every bit as good as it looks (and it is a very handsome little paperback). Needless to say, it's not a book for the incurious. Basically, it's an attempt to identify the manuscripts that stand behind the early printed editions. If this doesn't milk your goat, you should probably look elsewhere for mental sustenance. If, on the other hand, you have a miniature bust of Poliziano on your computer monitor, you will find much to savor. Matteo Venier, _Per una storia del testo di Virgilio nella prima eta\ del libro a stampa (1469-1519)_ (Udine: Forum, 2001). xxii+158 pp. Table of Contents: Preface Bibliographical abbreviations 1. Observations on the manuscript tradition in the 14th and 15th centuries - Codices examined - The humanistic vulgate [including the status of the Helen digression] - MSS. with interpolations drawn from Servius - MSS. copied from printed editions 2. Editions in print in the 15th century - The editio princeps edited by Giovanni Andrea Bussi - The Mentelin edition - Editions derived from the first Roman printing - The edition of Vindelinus de Spira and its progeny - The second Roman printing: the Medici codex and the Pomponian variants - The editions of Leonardus Achates 3. Virgil editions, 1500-1520 - The first Aldine - The second Aldine - The edition of Giovanni Battista Egnazio - The Giunt edition edited by Benedetto Riccardini [includes a fun account of where Riccardini got his info about the codex Romanus (Poliziano), how he handled it (irresponsibly), and what Valeriano had to say about him (nothing good)] - The third Aldine and some observations on the formation of a system of punctuation - Conclusions - Stemma of editions Appendix I: Corrections to the app. crit. in current editions (Ribbeck, Mynors, Geymonat) Appendix II: On discrepancies between the first and second Giunt editions Conspectus siglorum Index of manuscripts Index of Virgil editions Index of names -- This book was available for purchase earlier this year at http://www.libroco.it but I haven't checked back since the spring. If anyone knows where I can find a miniature bust of Poliziano, please email me privately. --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] East Carolina UniversityVirgil reception, discussion, documents, c --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Early Vergil printings and another request
Than you all very much for all the information, bibliography, and good advice. Helen COB On Friday, August 23, 2002, at 03:35 PM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: At 09:58 AM 8/23/2002 +0100, James Butrica wrote: Some partial suggestions have been made for secondary sources on early editions, but for a complete inventory of incunabula I suspect that you would have to create your own from Hain and the other reference works devoted to listing them (and even then you would ideally try to track down copies of the editions, since these reference works sometimes contain ghost editions that do not actually exist). This work has now been done; see: Davies, Martin, and John Goldfinch. _Vergil: A Census of Printed Editions 1469-1500_. Occasional Papers of the Bibliographical Society 7. London: The Bibliographical Society, 1992. There is even an appendix of probable ghosts! As to affinities, I assume that you mean textual ones, and I suspect that this would prove a dead end: if your interest is how the editions might be related to the important early mss of Virgil, there is probably no connection at all (some of those mss were certainly known to Renaissance scholars like Pontano and Poliziano and Leto but I have never heard that any of them was used for an early edition -- a good thing, too, since old mss could simply get thrown away once they had served their purpose: one of the Aldine editors destroyed a fifth-century uncial ms of Pliny's letters after using it for his edition); For modern editions, the most important codices are (according to E. Courtney) as follows: Mediceus (Laurentian Lib. 39.1 and Vatican lat. 3225 fol. 76), Romanus (Vatican lat. 3867), and Palatinus (Vatican, Pal. lat. 1631). Palatinus was in Heidelberg until 1618, and therefore had little or no influence on Italian editions of Virgil's work in this period. Venier now confirms that Mediceus was used in the second printed edition of Virgil's works (1471). Mediceus and Romanus were also used by the most important of Virgil's textual critics for this period, Pierius Valerianus, on which see below. and if you mean their relationship to each other and to the vulgate of the late 15th century, that would be impossible to pursue since, to the best of my knowledge, no-one has explored the Virgilian ms tradition beyond the Carolingian period (where it is already hopelessly contaminated) and so no-one is really in a position to say what was in the vulgate at any subsequent period, least of all in Italy in the Renaissance. I agree with James that the situation is hopeless for anything beyond the Carolingian period -- until c. 1470, when Virgil gets into print. For printed texts in the years 1470-1514, there is now a stemma in Venier (pp. 136-37). After that, I think you could safely derive a vulgate text from one of the following: (a) the Aldine octavos, which were endlessly pirated (b) the apparatus criticus provided by the aforementioned Valerianus, which was endlessly reprinted. --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] East Carolina UniversityVirgil reception, discussion, documents, c --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Early Vergil printings and another request
Dear Leofranc, I knew you would come through! Helen --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Early Vergil printings and another request
Could someone suggest to an unreconstructed early medievalist a good discussion of incunabula Vergils? Might I also ask for suggestions on what passages the group would suggest for collation in a text of the Aeneid to establish possible affinities. Helen COB --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Re: VIRGIL, Maro and Insular Latin
Off the top of my head, both Aldhem and Bede use Maro as well as Vergil - I'll check for actual percentages - I believe that is generally true of early Anglo-Latin Helen COB On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 06:02 PM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: This should be an easy question, but it is one that I don't know the answer to, and as it has been a quiet summer on the Virgil list, I hope no one will mind. When, and why, did we stop calling Virgil by his cognomen, Maro? (Extra points for anyone who can explain why Tully, a gentilicium or family-name, is often preferred to Cicero in the Renaissance.) One note for new subscribers: not everything we talk about on the Virgil list is this obscure. If you'd like to talk about something more literary, don't hesitate to start a new thread, either by posing a question or making an observation. Do change the subject header, though: there are over 700 subscribers on this mailing list, and I can pretty much guarantee you that a lot of them are going to delete anything labeled naming conventions on sight without reading any further. --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] East Carolina UniversityVirgil reception, discussion, documents, c --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Dante and the Vergilian commentary tradition
Dear Filippo, Thank you very much! Helen COB On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 12:19 PM, Filippo Irene wrote: I have a student who is interested in working on Dante's possible use of Vergilian commentaries. Would anyone have any suggestions on must read material? Helen Conrad-O'Briain On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 07:04 PM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: dear helen c-o'.b, it is absolutely likely that Dante used Vergilian commentaries belonging to late Antiquity and Middle Ages too, inasmuch as Dante's culture was strongly filled with Latin literature, both classic and mediaeval, much more than many people can think, and that literature was always read through commentaries that were made also with 'vitae' and 'accessus' about the 'auctor' and the contents of these have surely influenced Dante, and many other poets and writers, in the composition of their masterpieces. Unfortunately I have not informations about english bibliography on this subject; I can only quote V.deAngelis-G.C.Alessio, Nacqui sub Julio, ancor che fosse tardi (Inf. 1, 70), Studi vari di lingua e letteratura italiana in onore di G. Velli, Quaderni di Acme 41 (2000), pp.127-145 (published in Milan): the authors explain a famous interpretative 'crux' of the Commedia (Inf. 1, 70) about the meeting of Dante and Virgil through Dante's knowledge of late Antiquity (e.g. Servius above all) and mediaeval Virgil's 'vitae' and commentaries. For further informations I could make further researches. dr. F. Bognini PhD University of Venice. [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Dante and the Vergilian commentary tradition
I have a student who is interested in working on Dante's possible use of Vergilian commentaries. Would anyone have any suggestions on must read material? Helen Conrad-O'Briain On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 07:04 PM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Re: Virgil's influence on medieval and renaissance writers
Has anyone yet mentioned Curtius' European Literature and the Latin Middle Ages - or that wonderfully readable work of Helen Waddell, The Wandering Scholars? Helen COB On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 12:25 PM, Patrick Roper wrote: I had never heard the suggestion that Virgil's work had a significant influence on the works of medieval and renaissance writers. Could you please inform me of some references that would confirm this postulate? In addition to Professor Bognini's suggestions, the following posted by Peter Kardon on the Arthurnet list yesterday may be of interest. It relates to the Classical influences on Chretien de Troyes: Books exist about the renaissance of the 12th century, also called the aetas Ovidiana. See Scribes and scholars : a guide to the transmission of Greek and Latin literature by L. D. Reynolds or The Classical Heritage and Its Beneficiaries: From the Carolingian Age to the End of the Renaissance by R. R. Bolgar, or many others. A typical twelfth-century cleric (like Chretien) would have learned his Latin (to be able to read the Bible and the Church Fathers) from the libri Catoniani; among the standards in this set were the Disticha Catonis, Avianus' Fables, Theodulus' Eclogues, Maximianus' Elegies, and Statius'Achilleid, but the list varied. He (or she) could also have begun his studies of the seven liberal arts with Martianus Capella's allegorical compendium of expositions of the artes, the De Nuptiis Philologiae et Mercurii. And he could also have learned, and perhaps memorized, much of Virgil and Ovid, and studied Cicero and Seneca, Boethius and Macrobius, Dares and Dictys, and most other Latin authors (Classical Latin texts were copied extensively in the Carolingian renaissance, and only a few Classical Latin authors, like Tacitus, resurfaced solely in the Renaissance). An extraordinarily learned 12th-century cleric like John of Salisbury knew even the likes of Petronius. Many of the Latin auctores were excerpted in florilegia, but most were also available in full. L.D. Reynolds tracks what was available when (insofar as our evidence shows): see his Texts and transmission : a survey of the Latin classics. Chretien was probably not an unusually learned fellow, but he appears to have known the big chestnuts. Patrick Roper Dear Manzer, about Virgil's significant and large influence on medieval and renaissance writers you may also consider the entry 'Virgilius, Publius Maro' in the part 'Fortleben' of the 'Medioevo latino. A bibliographical bulletin of European culture from Boethius to Erasmus (VI to XV century)', that is published every year by Sismel-Edizioni del Galluzzo in Florence, Italy; two important monographs about this subject are: D.Comparetti, Virgilio nel Medioevo (I-II), Florence 1941; V.Zabughin, Vergilio nel Rinascimento italiano da Dante a Torquato Tasso (I-II), Bologna 1921. I don't know whether this books have been translated in english or not, but I think so. You have to think that Virgil preserved manuscripts between V and XV century are more than 1000, by far more numerous than all other classical authors mss. in the same period. With kind regards FBognini [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: new(ish) book on early printed Virgil eds.
Looks very interesting! How would one go about ordering it? Helen COB On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 06:05 PM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: As most of you know, the listowner frowns on the use of this list for commercial announcements, but smiles on notices like the following, which isn't going to make a dime for anyone but which _is_ of direct interest to the members of this group: Matteo Venier, _Per una storia del testo di Virgilio nella prima eta\ del libro a stampa (1469-1519)_ (Udine: Forum, 2001). xxii+158 pp. The book is in Italian, but I give an abbreviated table of contents in translation: Preface Bibliographical abbreviations 1. Observations on the manuscript tradition in the 14th and 15th centuries - Codices examined - The humanistic vulgate - MSS. with interpolations drawn from Servius - MSS. copied from printed editions 2. Editions in print in the 15th century - The editio princeps edited by Giovanni Andrea Bussi - The Mentelin edition - Editions derived from the first Roman printing - The edition of Vindelinus de Spira and its progeny - The second Roman printing: the Medici codex and the Pomponia variants - The editions of Leonardus Achates 3. Virgil editions, 1500-1520 - The first Aldine - The second Aldine - The edition of Giovanni Battista Egnazio - The Giunt edition edited by Benedetto Riccardini - The third Aldine and some observations on the formation of a system of punctuation - Conclusions - Stemma of editions Appendix I: Corrections to the app. crit. in current editions (Ribbeck, Mynors, Geymonat) Appendix II: On discrepancies between the first and second Giunt editions Conspectus siglorum Index of manuscripts Index of Virgil editions Index of names I only received this on Friday, and haven't done much with it yet. I can say a few things: - The book is well made, pleasing to read and pleasing to hold. - The treatment is exhaustive, but not exhausting. - It complements and builds on the bibliographical studies of Davies, Goldfinch, and Kallendorf; ideally, this book should be read in tandem with Kallendorf's most recent monograph, on _Virgil and the Myth of Venice_. - It offers a detailed picture, not only of how the first printed Virgils were assembled, but of textual criticism in the first age of print. If you're interested in the process of how printers and editors chose their copy-texts (whether it be from an unprinted MSS. or from a rival's printed edition) this is definitely the book for you; a good follow-up, in this regard, to Lowry's work on the editorial procedures (as opposed to the editorial rhetoric) of Aldus Manutius. --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Macalester College Virgil Tradition: discussion, bibliography, c. --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Homer-Vergil to Chaucer
Thank you very much! I'll suggest the Bale to my Chaucerian friend mentioning you , as my father would say, 'in the dispatch'. Helen COB On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 10:04 AM, Colin Burrow wrote: Comparisons between English and Classical authors had indeed become commonplace by the 1590s. Meres' Palladis Tamia, which compares a range of English authors more or less unconvincingly to classical authors (Harding the chronicler comes out as one of several English Ovids, for instance, and 'as Homer and Virgil among the Greeks and Latines are the chiefe Heroick Poets: so Spencer and Warner be our cheife heroicall Makers'). The most accessible text is in G. Gregory Smith, Elizabethan Critical Essays (Oxford, 1904). I'm not sure of the origins in England of this practice, and would suspect Leland is probably one of the earliest examples, if not the earliest example, and I would also suspect that the topos is dominantly a neo-Latin rather than a vernacular one before the mid-century. As I recall John Bale's Scriptorum illustrium maioris Brytanniae, printed in Basle in 1557, makes similar comparisons, but I have not verified this distant and probably inaccurate memory. Colin Burrow, Fellow and Tutor, Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge CB2 1TA tel: 01223 332483 web: http://www.english.cam.ac.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helen Conrad- O'Briain Sent: 04 January 2002 19:22 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:VIRGIL: Homer-Vergil to Chaucer Dear list, I was recently asked by a colleague to translate a pair of poems in praise of Chaucer by the Tudor antiquary Leland - about five hundred years out of my period - hence my question: - is a comparison of Homer, Vergil and A Another as the chief poet of their respective languages a common topos in renaissance literature (I rather suspect it is) and if so could the list suggest a few examples prior to c. 1535? From my period, Bede contrasts the subject of one of his poems with Vergil's Aeneid at one point in the EHE, and Aldhelm points out that as Vergil was the first of the Latins to write a 'Georgics, he, Aldhelm, was the first of the Germanic nations to write on metrics, but that isn't quite the same thing. By the way, Leland has a charming little poem in which he plays on the similarity between his patron 's name (Brian) Tuke and Vergil's Tucca. Helen COB --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's tomb
For whatever it is worth, there are photographs of the interior and exterior of 'Vergil's tomb' in Carol Kidwell Sannazaro and Arcadia Duckworth, London, 1993 By the way, she also reproduces a woodcut from the 1574 edition of the Italian translation of Sannazaro 'De Partu Virginis' which includes what looks suspiciously like a lace maker's pillow - has anyone else seen an Annunciation with this sort of needleowrk equipment? Helen COB From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jess Paehlke) Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:23:40 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: VIRGIL: Virgil's tomb Just for the record, J.B. Trapp does indeed have an article called Virgil's Grave in his volume of collected studies. I don't think there are any photographs, but plenty of plates of artistic illustrations of the site. Regards, Jess Paehlke M.A. candidate Centre for Medieval Studies University of Toronto [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Hello... the Death of Turnus
In looking at Aeneas's killing of Turnus, I have had a few Sunday morning level thoughts: 1. The relationship of Evander to Achises, Aeneas to Evander and Pallas to Aeneas represents a typically Roman pattern of mutual support and generational patronage which must re-inforce Aeneas's natural reaction in seeing in the death of Pallas the fate which must always hang over his own and, at this point, only son. Aeneas is responsible for the boy, and his sence of Evander's loss is the stronger because he facesthe possibility of that loss himself 2. Fate has already decided on Turnus's death - a clean kill would have been better; Vergil accepts that empires, even peace, require someone to get his hands dirty - but how dirty? 3.Tthe poem ends abruptly, or does it? At 952 lines the book was not going to go on much longer - remorse, a funeral and happily ever after seem unlikely. We cannot hide behind Vergil's untimely death. Had Vergil lived, I believe Turnus would still have died as he did and the poem ended with his ghost moaning down the steep path to Hades. If Vergil had meant to introduce remorse it would have been there - he was, if we can believe the lives, beginning his revision not finishing the poem. To give Augustus his due, I suspect he read those last lines more in sorrow than in anger as an honest indictment of the world as it is even more than himself as an individual. 4.The motif of an unwisely worn piece of booty is an interesting one - I'll have to take a look at Haber to see if it has beenflagged, but notice the use of it in Beowul f2047-ff. Helen COB --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
