Re: VIRGIL: Re: Virgil and Dante
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, James Lewis wrote: > Randi Eldevik wrote: > > [snip] > > >For my purposes, the Teutonic Knights and _all_ their activities are > >just another example of an arrogant approach to cultural hegemony that was > >all too common in Western Christianity during the Middle Ages; afterward, > >too. I might just as well have mentioned the example of the Spanish > >conquistadors who wanted to convert the Amerinds of Mexico and Central > >America, but who forbade Amerind converts to be ordained to the priesthood > >because, somehow, even after baptism and Catholic education, they were > >considered to be "not good enough." Sadly, the _Aeneid_ is tied in with > >all these various attempts at cultural hegemony: > > Frankly, this wearyingly frequent animadversion against Western > Christianity as a uniquely arrogant aggressor is a canard that should be > dismissed out of hand by anyone who pretends to scholarly objectivity (does > such thing exist anymore?). Economic, military, demographic and cultural > expansion are the nearly inevitable hallmarks of all civilizations at times > when a new spiritual environment transforms and charges individuals and > groups with cultural energy. What about the conquests of Islam? What about > the suspiciously aggressive activities of Shaka and his Zulus? What about > the bestial destruction throughout Western Cristendom and elsewhere at the > hands of the pagan Northmen? In fact, what about the bloodthirsty round-ups > of victims in their thousands among the Tlascalans by the Aztecs, round-ups > so awful that the Tlascalans (and others) were the eager collaborators with > Hernan Cortes' Four Hundred in the destruction of Tenochtitlan? One can go > on and on throughout the history of mankind. Let's face it: we're not a > pretty species, but we certainly are both energetic and capable of great > spiritual transformations, perhaps as a balance over against our > belligerence. It is possible to regret what we and our ancestors--wherever > they have sojourned--have done to each other, and at the same time > recognize that such behavior is probably a cultural determinant, at least > above a certain level of cultural sophistication. And how, by the way, is > Vergil to blame for any of this? > Allow me to repeat: I NEVER SAID VIRGIL WAS TO BLAME FOR ANY OF THIS. And I never said the attitude was unique to Christianity. I know about Islam and all the rest. What I say is that it is an attitude found almost universally in the human race, which crept into the INTERPRETATION of Virgil, and which crept into the activities of the Christian Church, inter alia. from the 4th century onward. I happen to think very highly of Christianity (Christianity as it was meant to be) and, far from attacking Christianity _per se_, I merely deplore and regret anything creeping into Christianity that prevents it from being purely a religion of love and compassion. For the final time (I want to put an end to this!) I was merely replying to someone who assumed that medieval Christians were all gentle and kind, and that what they liked in the _Aeneid_ was Virgil's gentleness and kindness. To refute that idea, I mentioned some historical examples of aggressive behavior by people who called themselves Christians. As I've said before, I am not such a fool as to posit a crude, direct, cause-and-effect relationship between the _Aeneid_ and these unfortunate historical incidents. As I see it, whatever aggression and arrogance there may be in the _Aeneid_, or in various people's readings of the _Aeneid_, is a symptom, not a cause. Is it too much to ask that respondents read all of a thread before responding--not just a single posting from many days ago? Randi Eldevik Oklahoma State University --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: Re: Virgil and Dante
Randi Eldevik wrote: [snip] >For my purposes, the Teutonic Knights and _all_ their activities are >just another example of an arrogant approach to cultural hegemony that was >all too common in Western Christianity during the Middle Ages; afterward, >too. I might just as well have mentioned the example of the Spanish >conquistadors who wanted to convert the Amerinds of Mexico and Central >America, but who forbade Amerind converts to be ordained to the priesthood >because, somehow, even after baptism and Catholic education, they were >considered to be "not good enough." Sadly, the _Aeneid_ is tied in with >all these various attempts at cultural hegemony: Frankly, this wearyingly frequent animadversion against Western Christianity as a uniquely arrogant aggressor is a canard that should be dismissed out of hand by anyone who pretends to scholarly objectivity (does such thing exist anymore?). Economic, military, demographic and cultural expansion are the nearly inevitable hallmarks of all civilizations at times when a new spiritual environment transforms and charges individuals and groups with cultural energy. What about the conquests of Islam? What about the suspiciously aggressive activities of Shaka and his Zulus? What about the bestial destruction throughout Western Cristendom and elsewhere at the hands of the pagan Northmen? In fact, what about the bloodthirsty round-ups of victims in their thousands among the Tlascalans by the Aztecs, round-ups so awful that the Tlascalans (and others) were the eager collaborators with Hernan Cortes' Four Hundred in the destruction of Tenochtitlan? One can go on and on throughout the history of mankind. Let's face it: we're not a pretty species, but we certainly are both energetic and capable of great spiritual transformations, perhaps as a balance over against our belligerence. It is possible to regret what we and our ancestors--wherever they have sojourned--have done to each other, and at the same time recognize that such behavior is probably a cultural determinant, at least above a certain level of cultural sophistication. And how, by the way, is Vergil to blame for any of this? --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Charles Skallerud wrote: > > Randi makes an excellent point. It is slightly insane to generalize, but > there is a strong pacifism among thinkers in our time which seriously > distorts the interpretation of some texts. As I understand Virgil, he felt > both compassion and aggression. He most certainly grieved for the victims of > war, but he also fully accepted the satisfaction that Aeneas got from running > Turnus through. > > Charles Skallerud Well put. I'm glad I'm communicating clearly to someone. Thanks, Randi Eldevik Oklahoma State University --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
Randi makes an excellent point. It is slightly insane to generalize, but there is a strong pacifism among thinkers in our time which seriously distorts the interpretation of some texts. As I understand Virgil, he felt both compassion and aggression. He most certainly grieved for the victims of war, but he also fully accepted the satisfaction that Aeneas got from running Turnus through. Charles Skallerud > This all started off in response to someone who assumed that recent> readings of Virgil as a sensitive, compassionate soul with moral qualms> about imperialism were present also in the minds of past readers, and> could account for the linkage between Virgil and medieval Christianity (as> though the medieval Church was always kind and gentle). I was trying to> explain that such an outlook (toward Christianity or toward the> _Aeneid_) was uncommon in earlier times. That's all.> Randi Eldevik> Oklahoma State University From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Sep 17 16:44:18 1999 >From mantovano-returns Fri Sep 17 12:52:21 1999 Received: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by wilsoninet.com (8.8.5) id MAA13356; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:50:50 -0500 (CDT) From: RANDI C ELDEVIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: VIRGIL: and Dante In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-UIDL: c3f056f4095465cd824f775283e367b8 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Charles Skallerud wrote: > > Randi makes an excellent point. It is slightly insane to generalize, but > there is a strong pacifism among thinkers in our time which seriously > distorts the interpretation of some texts. As I understand Virgil, he felt > both compassion and aggression. He most certainly grieved for the victims of > war, but he also fully accepted the satisfaction that Aeneas got from running > Turnus through. > > Charles Skallerud Well put. I'm glad I'm communicating clearly to someone. Thanks, Randi Eldevik Oklahoma State University --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, david driscoll wrote: > 3. The Teutonic Knights. Well hey, who wouldn't want > to be one? I beleive that the question the Poles' > Catholicism that has been cited probably refers to > Orthodox incursions/conversions that had taken place > in the part of Poland abutting Ukraine. I beleive the > knights mandate pertained to the conversion of Baltic > pagans, and the rolling back of Orthodox influence in > Poland. > > By the bye; blaming the behavior of the Teutonic > Knights or the Conquistadores on Vergil is a bit like > holding Kant responsible for the Holocaust. It makes > for interesting grad-seminars but is a bit beneath us, > no? I'm afraid I didn't make myself quite clear. I was citing examples of a certain arrogant attitude that can be found in the Teutonic Knights and the Conquistadors, among others; it is an attitude that can also be found in the ancient Roman Empire, and in many _readings_ of Virgil's Aeneid all the way up to the 20th century. I am _not_ arguing for some crude cause-and-effect relationships. I do think Virgil has been _used_ in support of aggressive and oppressive incursions of various kinds over the past two millennia. This all started off in response to someone who assumed that recent readings of Virgil as a sensitive, compassionate soul with moral qualms about imperialism were present also in the minds of past readers, and could account for the linkage between Virgil and medieval Christianity (as though the medieval Church was always kind and gentle). I was trying to explain that such an outlook (toward Christianity or toward the _Aeneid_) was uncommon in earlier times. That's all. Randi Eldevik Oklahoma State University --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
>> [--What is the problem with calling the Teutonic Knights a military order >> of monks? That's what they were, weren't they?] > >good morning. Are you sure, they were monks? Templar-knights, Maltesians and >knights of the ordo domus etc. were not monks in the classical sense: they >were >married often, they were knights I'm not a medieval historian, but have read a bit about the Knights of Malta (the Order of St John). They weren't monks in any ordinary sense of the word. They took vows of chastity and obedience, but not poverty. They were very wealthy and worldly, and though they could not marry they all had their pretty Maltese mistresses. Although originally "Hospitallers" in the Holy Land, in Malta they became a naval power, doing battle with the Turks -- but to serve as a fighting man was not usually the ambition of those who joined the Order. Rather, they hoped to live in some grand style as the prior of one of the Order's estates in continental Europe. >recent: shall the UNO "debellare superbos" in East Timor or not? See Augustine, De Civ. Dei, Praefatio, for another reading of this line, nothing to do with the Nunc Dimittis! (And I won't get started on East Timor, where in all likelihood New Zealand troops will be serving quite soon ...) But I'm not quarrelling with the idea of a Christian Virgil. I once edited an obscure early 17th cent. text all about how to read Aeneid 6 properly, attending to all the many places where Virgil comes close to enunciating Christian doctrine -- where he "roves at the truth though he hit it not perfectly" (because he only had the light of nature to guide him, not revealed religion). Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
RANDI C ELDEVIK schrieb:
>
>
> On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Hans Zimmerman wrote:
>
> > > 3. The continuity of "Roma" as caput mundi in the complementarism of
> king and > priest, of rex and sacerdos - see "So erhielt Petrus das
> Kaisertum" >http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454/otiapref.htm > - in
> the form of Kaiser and Papa, confirmed by the Constantine donation - a >
> fake, of course, but in this form best expression of the fundamental idea.
> > > So far, I'm d'accord with RANDI C ELDEVIK; but he
>
> [--Actually, she.]
>
> also has written some nonsense about the ordo domus St. Mariae
> Teutonicorum in his last letter: > > > the > > Teutonic Knights (an order
> of military monks)> > ? Templises (Temple-knights) and the knights of
> Malta (what is the English name > for this ordines?) were the prototype of
> this ordo. "Military monks" - is that > the common name of such knights?
>
> [--What is the problem with calling the Teutonic Knights a military order
> of monks? That's what they were, weren't they?]
good morning. Are you sure, they were monks? Templar-knights, Maltesians and
knights of the ordo domus etc. were not monks in the classical sense: they were
married often, they were knights - that is an opposite lifestyle also in
medieval view, see Trevrizent in the Perceval/Parzival-epos:
http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454-0003/trevriz.htm
Trevrizent has to end his life as a "knight" for to become a monk. In society
of
the graal live knights, not monks: they are able to marry noble women - so the
idea (the "literature, that makes history").
> The people conquered by the ordo were the Prussians, and later also the
> people > living in the Balticum. Conflict with the Polish kingdom was late
> . . .
> [--I don't think Mantovano is the place to discuss late-medieval Eastern
> European history. But I would like to briefly note that I am not talking
> "nonsense". I may have skipped over a lot; certainly the Teutonic Knights
> were aggressors throughout a large part of the Baltic and tried to
> suppress a lot of indigenous cultures.
yes. please tell me one knight, who was not an aggressor. please tell me one
medieval king, who didn't fight against his neighbours. please tell me one
European state, who didn't try to colonise. Medieval time is a neverending war
of each noble person against the other one.
> But in doing so the Teutonic
> Knights came into conflict with the Poles, since the Polish-Lithuanian
> Federation had ruled vast northeastern regions (much bigger than the
> present-day states of Poland and Lithuania) ever since the time of
> Jagiello;
yes, a big aggressive state, conquering the Ucraine and forcing the orthodox
people into Catholicism.
> and, in their arrogance, the Teutonic Knights tended to view the
> Poles themselves as "foreign" and "non-Catholic" in the same way as they
> viewed the neighboring peoples with whom the Poles were confederated.
why should they? where is the text? ("die Quelle")?
> For my purposes, the Teutonic Knights and _all_ their activities are
> just another example of an arrogant approach to cultural hegemony that was
> all too common in Western Christianity during the Middle Ages;
no. It was common all over the world. It is not fruit of Christianity, but of
feudal structure of society.
> afterward, too.
> I might just as well have mentioned the example of the Spanish
> conquistadors who wanted to convert the Amerinds of Mexico and Central
> America, but who forbade Amerind converts to be ordained to the priesthood
> because, somehow, even after baptism and Catholic education, they were
> considered to be "not good enough." Sadly, the _Aeneid_ is tied in with
> all these various attempts at cultural hegemony: see Richard Waswo's
> article "The History that Literature Makes" in _New Literary History_.]
> Randi Eldevik (Ms.)
> Oklahoma State University
thank you, that's a good bridge to the "theme": building a state like the
Imperium Romanum with its Ideology of "pax Romana" means: to leave the old
feudal structure of eternal war. After 700 years of Roman war Vergil "sees" the
great peace coming by Augustus. And he is not the only one with this vision.
The idea of a big area of civilisation without borders comes back late. It is
recent: shall the UNO "debellare superbos" in East Timor or not?
grusz, hansz
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Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
1. With respect to Christian putative pre-figurings in the Eclogues, we should not lose sight of Ec.V with its description of the dead Daphnis in his mother's arms (stabat mater etc.), and the following description of his apotheosis. His future cult, with offerings to his altars is then foreseen. 2. Apropos the Martinez/Durling Inferno. I had the pleasure of being taught Dante by Prof. Martinez a few years back at the U. of Minnesota, so perhaps my opinion here isn't completely unbiased. This edition contains literal facing-page translations (by Prof. Durling) that are quite accurate if rather homely. I would recommend this text to those primarily interested in finding a way into the Italian text. The notes (primarily, I beleive the work of Prof. Martinez) are quite good. They are accurate (subsequent imprints have corrected errors) and contain citations in their original languages. Of course they concern themselves as much with Italian and Provencal lyric verse as with the classical. They are voluminous enough without overwhelming the more casual reader as is the case with the typical full-bore volume of commentary. 3. The Teutonic Knights. Well hey, who wouldn't want to be one? I beleive that the question the Poles' Catholicism that has been cited probably refers to Orthodox incursions/conversions that had taken place in the part of Poland abutting Ukraine. I beleive the knights mandate pertained to the conversion of Baltic pagans, and the rolling back of Orthodox influence in Poland. By the bye; blaming the behavior of the Teutonic Knights or the Conquistadores on Vergil is a bit like holding Kant responsible for the Holocaust. It makes for interesting grad-seminars but is a bit beneath us, no? __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Hans Zimmerman wrote: > > 3. The continuity of "Roma" as caput mundi in the complementarism of king and > priest, of rex and sacerdos - see "So erhielt Petrus das Kaisertum" >http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454/otiapref.htm > - in the form of Kaiser and Papa, confirmed by the Constantine donation - a > fake, of course, but in this form best expression of the fundamental idea. > > So far, I'm d'accord with RANDI C ELDEVIK; but he [--Actually, she.] also has written some nonsense about the ordo domus St. Mariae Teutonicorum in his last letter: > > > the > > Teutonic Knights (an order of military monks)> > ? Templises (Temple-knights) and the knights of Malta (what is the English name > for this ordines?) were the prototype of this ordo. "Military monks" - is that > the common name of such knights? [--What is the problem with calling the Teutonic Knights a military order of monks? That's what they were, weren't they?] The people conquered by the ordo were the Prussians, and later also the people > living in the Balticum. Conflict with the Polish kingdom was late . . . [--I don't think Mantovano is the place to discuss late-medieval Eastern European history. But I would like to briefly note that I am not talking "nonsense". I may have skipped over a lot; certainly the Teutonic Knights were aggressors throughout a large part of the Baltic and tried to suppress a lot of indigenous cultures. But in doing so the Teutonic Knights came into conflict with the Poles, since the Polish-Lithuanian Federation had ruled vast northeastern regions (much bigger than the present-day states of Poland and Lithuania) ever since the time of Jagiello; and, in their arrogance, the Teutonic Knights tended to view the Poles themselves as "foreign" and "non-Catholic" in the same way as they viewed the neighboring peoples with whom the Poles were confederated. For my purposes, the Teutonic Knights and _all_ their activities are just another example of an arrogant approach to cultural hegemony that was all too common in Western Christianity during the Middle Ages; afterward, too. I might just as well have mentioned the example of the Spanish conquistadors who wanted to convert the Amerinds of Mexico and Central America, but who forbade Amerind converts to be ordained to the priesthood because, somehow, even after baptism and Catholic education, they were considered to be "not good enough." Sadly, the _Aeneid_ is tied in with all these various attempts at cultural hegemony: see Richard Waswo's article "The History that Literature Makes" in _New Literary History_.] Randi Eldevik (Ms.) Oklahoma State University --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
salvete collagae, Ecloga IV in the Bucolica of course is the great poem, that showes Maro as a "prophet" in medieval Christian view (since late antiquity, specially since Constantin). But also in Aeneis VI three points connnect Christianism with the imperium-idea of "pater Anchises": 1. The coincidence of Aeneis VI, 853 "parcere subiectis et debellare superbos" with the Magnificat (Lucas 1,52): "deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles"; 2.the idea of this imperium itself, that belongs in Christian view to the four imperia of the Daniel-Apokalypsis and is the last one before the big shabbat of thousend years, the the regnum millennium, that means: Christus cannot come and reign 1000 years, before the Roman imperium has not gone. As long as it lived in its different forms, traditions and transformations, so the idea of Roman imperium in medieval time, as long the last imperium on earth, the milennium of Christ himself, was not able to come: the fourth regnum of the Daniel-Apokalypsis had to disappear first. 3. The continuity of "Roma" as caput mundi in the complementarism of king and priest, of rex and sacerdos - see "So erhielt Petrus das Kaisertum" http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454/otiapref.htm - in the form of Kaiser and Papa, confirmed by the Constantine donation - a fake, of course, but in this form best expression of the fundamental idea. So far, I'm d'accord with RANDI C ELDEVIK; but he also has written some nonsense about the ordo domus St. Mariae Teutonicorum in his last letter: > the > Teutonic Knights (an order of military monks) ? Templises (Temple-knights) and the knights of Malta (what is the English name for this ordines?) were the prototype of this ordo. "Military monks" - is that the common name of such knights? > who somehow decided that the > Poles weren't Catholic enough--despite their centuries-long Catholicism-- > and that "true Catholicism" would have to be enforced by the sword. The people conquered by the ordo were the Prussians, and later also the people living in the Balticum. Conflict with the Polish kingdom was late, it was a political conflict about Danzig 1308; but such conflicts have been also with Danmark and Nowgorod and many other kingdoms. The ordo is one root of the later Prussian state. I think "Oklahoma" is an Indian name, occupied by European colonists. So "Prussia" had been the name of the people, whose Country was occupied and "europised" by the knights of the ordo domus St. Mariae Teutonicorum. Prussia doesn't exist any more. Long live Oklahoma! grusz, hansz --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: and Dante
In answer to your first question, there are the Christian allegorizations of the Aeneid by Fulgentius and by Bernardus Silvestris. There is also the medieval idea that Rome as the headquarters of the Catholic Church even after the Roman Empire had crumbled in the West affords a kind of continuity (with a shift of focus from the temporal to the spiritual) with the "imperium sine fine" that Virgil had extolled. There is also the emphasis on _pietas_ in Virgil's hero Aeneas, which makes him easier to view through a Christian lens than, say, Achilles would have been. But (to answer the person who first started this thread) I don't think many readers in the Middle Ages were sensitive to any moral critique Virgil might possibly have been making of the power-mongering involved in empire-building. It is twentieth-century readers who seem most conscious of that aspect of the _Aeneid_. Medieval Christian rulers tend to be rather triumphalist and aggressive--this all started with Constantine in the early 4th c.--and are often egged on in this attitude by compliant churchmen. Pope Gregory the Great actually stated that conquest of pagan peoples was a Good Thing because it allowed Christian missionaries access to them; cf. Charlemagne's campaigns in northern Europe and, later, the Teutonic Knights (an order of military monks) who somehow decided that the Poles weren't Catholic enough--despite their centuries-long Catholicism-- and that "true Catholicism" would have to be enforced by the sword. It all comes down to lust for power in the end, of course. Virgil may have been a sensitive guy full of moral qualms, but that hasn't prevented the _Aeneid_ from fanning the flames of imperialistic ambition in readers of all time periods. Randi Eldevik Oklahoma State University On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: > A few questions, relating to the recent thread on Virgil and the Fourth > Eclogue: > > 1. What else, besides the Fourth Eclogue, led medieval readers to view > Virgil as a proto-Christian prophet? How different is the medieval view > from that of, say, the one outlined by Broch in _The Death of Virgil_ (1945)? > > Judging from the information that I receive from new subscribers, I'd guess > that at least a fifth of those who join this group do so because they want > to learn more about Virgil and Dante. Has anyone formed an opinion yet of > either of the following: > > 2. Vol. 1 of the new Lectura Dantis (California), ed. Mandelbaum, Oldcorn, > and Ross > > 3. The Durling/Martinez Inferno (rev. > > --- > David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Macalester College Virgil Tradition: discussion, bibliography, &c. > --- > --- > To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. > Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message > "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You > can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
VIRGIL: and Dante
A few questions, relating to the recent thread on Virgil and the Fourth Eclogue: 1. What else, besides the Fourth Eclogue, led medieval readers to view Virgil as a proto-Christian prophet? How different is the medieval view from that of, say, the one outlined by Broch in _The Death of Virgil_ (1945)? Judging from the information that I receive from new subscribers, I'd guess that at least a fifth of those who join this group do so because they want to learn more about Virgil and Dante. Has anyone formed an opinion yet of either of the following: 2. Vol. 1 of the new Lectura Dantis (California), ed. Mandelbaum, Oldcorn, and Ross 3. The Durling/Martinez Inferno (rev. --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Macalester College Virgil Tradition: discussion, bibliography, &c. --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
