Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Ricardo Pinho]

Hi Jerôme,
Why don't you contact directly some guys that can really help you?

GeoSolutions (Europe)
https://www.geo-solutions.it/contacts/

Boundless Geo (USA)
https://boundlessgeo.com/contact/

You will be amazed that you are not left alone on the hands of proprietary
multinational companies! ;-)

Best of luck!


2018-04-09 7:31 GMT+01:00 Jérôme DUCKERS :

> Hi,
>
> Thank you for all your comment.
>
> I'm part of a big company with a lot of money and an old mentality :(
> thinking that if you pay, you've the best service.
> But now, we are facing the wall, and we need to take decisions.
>
> More, since 1 year, we are facing a big migration of our applications to
> SAP. And for now only Esri is positioning itself as a leader in SAP :(
> So, we bought some licenses to provide some map/feature services.
> Unfortunately, we already see the limitations of the products.
>
>
>
> In terms of infrastructure, we are using Oracle Database with
> SDO_GEOMETRY. We refused to work with ST_GEOMETRY, we want to be as generic
> as possible.
> Idem for the front end, everything is thought to use a different viewer
> (Autodesk, esri, Google, ).
>
>
>
> So if i understand correctly, no one has been confronted with this forced
> migration ?
>
>
> Jérôme.
>
> 2018-04-04 20:38 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Pinho :
>
>> > Data is EVERYTHING.
>>
>> That's correct... you should watch the Arnulf (OSGeo) video @ Foss4g 2016!
>> foss4g-2016-1060-software comes and goes mind the data [Arnulf] - hd on
>> Vimeo And the KEEP USING OPEN FORMATS is
>> the only way to have full access and control of YOUR DATA!!!
>> Don't let them fool you, only TRUE FREE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE can
>> guarantee interoperability!
>>
>> There are fantastic and enterprise REAL FREE OPEN SOURCE alternatives to
>> Mapguide OS and AIMS:
>> https://www.osgeo.org/choose-a-project/mapping-and-cartograp
>> hy/mapping-services/
>>
>>
>>
>> 2018-04-04 18:56 GMT+01:00 GordonL :
>>
>>> I really want to be a cynic and to tell management to stop using things
>>> like
>>> Google (open source) and basically most of the web running on Linux.
>>>
>>> There would be a more of risk to management to move to a platform that is
>>> not as "open" as MGOS.  However, the key to any thing is the DATA.  Data
>>> is
>>> EVERYTHING.
>>>
>>> So, if you do go with ArcGIS Server, for example, make sure your data is
>>> a
>>> format that all GISes can see.  For example, most GIS systems can see SHP
>>> (not SDF).
>>>
>>> But above all, the data should be stored in a database such as Oracle,
>>> SQL
>>> Server or PostgreSQL & PostGIS.
>>>
>>> If you do store your data in a database, especially with ArcGIS
>>> Enterprise,
>>> make sure you are using the databases' native Geometry format and not
>>> ESRI
>>> Proprietary st geom.
>>>
>>> Your life will be way easier.
>>>
>>> If your data is in a neutral database, all GIS systems can view and edit
>>> the
>>> data (given permissions) and regardless of what comes down the pipe
>>> (Autodesk/ESRI/Tesla/Amazon GIS) you are in a position to take advantage.
>>>
>>> DATA is EVERYTHING.
>>>
>>> gordon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/MapGuide-Users-f4182607.
>>> html
>>> ___
>>> mapguide-users mailing list
>>> mapguide-users@lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> mapguide-users@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Jérôme DUCKERS]

Thanks Gordon,



We are aware that migration will take months !



Unfortunately with the previous points, we're somewhat forced to migrate.



Our action plan is the following :

1.  Keep our aims web viewer (our licenses are permanent) and provide
some improvements.



 2. Provide some Map/Feature services based on our oracle database
(sdo_geometry) to SAP.



3. Slowly reinvent our web viewer, to have something younger, the
current viewer has almost 10 years.



Data is very important for us. Therefore we take the choice to continue
with Oracle Database and sdo_geometry.

To provide data via mapservices, it’s very easy ! Unfortunately, you’ve
right, for crud, it’s more complicated.

We have enable sde on the database and created some working tables (with
st_geometry), when data is created/updated/deleted, triggers are processing
data  and put it into our sdo schema.





Layers are the biggest problem for us.

Mapguide manages layer as an object, with a lot of properties, the power of
this object is the collection of scale range.

In Arcgis, a layer has just one scale range.



In Mapguide, if I want a layer “Milepost” be shown as a point from 5000- 500
then  with a symbol from 499 – 0, no problem, it’s just a layer “milepost”.

In Argis, we need two layers L





For the viewer, I think that for the future, openlayers will be the best
choice. With openlayers, we have weak coupling with the map server.

So I’m practically sur that a migration to a new Gis Server will take less
time.

Arcgis API/ Geocortex are more specific for esri, and not flexible for a
potential future migration.







On the other hand, I found :





https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/infrastructure-map-server/learn-explore/caas/simplecontent/content/autodesk-infrastructure-map-server-end-life-faq.html





*Special Offer from Esri*

Another consideration is this offer from Esri.  With the recently announced
collaboration  between
Autodesk and Esir, Esri is making a special offer available to AIMS
customers: Between January 7, 2018 through December 31, 2018, each seat of
AIMS, regardless of contract plan (maintenance or subscription), will be
eligible to receive a seat of Esri ArcGIS Enterprise Standard
 plus
one additional license of the Esri ArcGIS Desktop Standard
.  This is a
free one-time offer for the license and the license will fall under Esri’s
standard maintenance program the following year.

We have 8 seats ! So Esri must provide us : 8 ArcGIS Enterprise
Standard,  right
?





Thank you all for your good advice.



Jérôme.















2018-04-09 21:19 GMT+02:00 GordonL :

> Absolutely, most I.T. departments in North America are extremely risk
> averse.
> They see Open Source as a risky proposition, even if it is not so.
>
> If you have to move to ArcGIS Server, you are going to find that you have a
> bit of work.
>
> First, the data.  You have to figure how the data is created/collected.
> If the data is gathered by GPS or Survey, and then imported into the
> system,
> you will have to make sure the storage mechanism still can hold it.  Oracle
> can store the Spatial data and ArcMap can "view" the data but not edit
> spatial data not in the SDE Enterprise schema within Oracle.
> So, if you want to edit your existing data ArcMap or ArcGIS Pro, you have
> two choices:
> 1. Move all the data into ESRI Schema
> 2. Use a 3rd party tool plugin for ArcMap such as GISquirrel
> (https://www.gisquirrel.com/home)
>
> Or not with ESRI (i.e. QGIS)
>
> Next, the layers and Maps.  MapGuide/AIMS creates layers within the XML on
> the server.  Layers in ArcGIS Server are created as separate services (i.e.
> Feature or Map Services).  You have to publish them from ArcCatelog, ArcMap
> or ArcGIS Pro.  That is how you style, from the client and then publish.
>
> Once inside the ArcGIS Server, they are published but to put together a
> good
> map, you need to use:
> 1. ArcGIS online that points to your publicly available ArcGIS Server
> 2. ArcGIS Portal (a subset of ArcGIS online) that can be installed on your
> internet or public.
> 3. ArcGIS API for Javascript - fairly easy to get going, much like the
> Google Maps API
> 4. 3rd Party such as GeoCortex - a great wrapper to publish maps as a web
> interface (I have even tried this with MapGuide WMS/WFS layers)
> 5. Open Source wrapper such as Leaflet or Open Layers - which can consume
> the ArcGIS Server Rest api. (This is how I often do MapGuide/ArcGIS
> mashups)
>
>
> So that is a bit of a migration in a nutshell.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> f4182607.html
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> mapguide-users@lists.osgeo.org
> 

Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[GordonL]

Absolutely, most I.T. departments in North America are extremely risk averse. 
They see Open Source as a risky proposition, even if it is not so.

If you have to move to ArcGIS Server, you are going to find that you have a
bit of work.

First, the data.  You have to figure how the data is created/collected.
If the data is gathered by GPS or Survey, and then imported into the system,
you will have to make sure the storage mechanism still can hold it.  Oracle
can store the Spatial data and ArcMap can "view" the data but not edit
spatial data not in the SDE Enterprise schema within Oracle.  
So, if you want to edit your existing data ArcMap or ArcGIS Pro, you have
two choices:
1. Move all the data into ESRI Schema
2. Use a 3rd party tool plugin for ArcMap such as GISquirrel
(https://www.gisquirrel.com/home)

Or not with ESRI (i.e. QGIS)

Next, the layers and Maps.  MapGuide/AIMS creates layers within the XML on
the server.  Layers in ArcGIS Server are created as separate services (i.e.
Feature or Map Services).  You have to publish them from ArcCatelog, ArcMap
or ArcGIS Pro.  That is how you style, from the client and then publish.

Once inside the ArcGIS Server, they are published but to put together a good
map, you need to use:
1. ArcGIS online that points to your publicly available ArcGIS Server
2. ArcGIS Portal (a subset of ArcGIS online) that can be installed on your
internet or public.
3. ArcGIS API for Javascript - fairly easy to get going, much like the
Google Maps API
4. 3rd Party such as GeoCortex - a great wrapper to publish maps as a web
interface (I have even tried this with MapGuide WMS/WFS layers)
5. Open Source wrapper such as Leaflet or Open Layers - which can consume
the ArcGIS Server Rest api. (This is how I often do MapGuide/ArcGIS mashups)


So that is a bit of a migration in a nutshell.





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Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Jérôme DUCKERS]

Hi,

Thank you for all your comment.

I'm part of a big company with a lot of money and an old mentality :(
thinking that if you pay, you've the best service.
But now, we are facing the wall, and we need to take decisions.

More, since 1 year, we are facing a big migration of our applications to
SAP. And for now only Esri is positioning itself as a leader in SAP :(
So, we bought some licenses to provide some map/feature services.
Unfortunately, we already see the limitations of the products.



In terms of infrastructure, we are using Oracle Database with SDO_GEOMETRY.
We refused to work with ST_GEOMETRY, we want to be as generic as possible.
Idem for the front end, everything is thought to use a different viewer
(Autodesk, esri, Google, ).



So if i understand correctly, no one has been confronted with this forced
migration ?


Jérôme.

2018-04-04 20:38 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Pinho :

> > Data is EVERYTHING.
>
> That's correct... you should watch the Arnulf (OSGeo) video @ Foss4g 2016!
> foss4g-2016-1060-software comes and goes mind the data [Arnulf] - hd on
> Vimeo And the KEEP USING OPEN FORMATS is the
> only way to have full access and control of YOUR DATA!!!
> Don't let them fool you, only TRUE FREE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE can guarantee
> interoperability!
>
> There are fantastic and enterprise REAL FREE OPEN SOURCE alternatives to
> Mapguide OS and AIMS:
> https://www.osgeo.org/choose-a-project/mapping-and-
> cartography/mapping-services/
>
>
>
> 2018-04-04 18:56 GMT+01:00 GordonL :
>
>> I really want to be a cynic and to tell management to stop using things
>> like
>> Google (open source) and basically most of the web running on Linux.
>>
>> There would be a more of risk to management to move to a platform that is
>> not as "open" as MGOS.  However, the key to any thing is the DATA.  Data
>> is
>> EVERYTHING.
>>
>> So, if you do go with ArcGIS Server, for example, make sure your data is a
>> format that all GISes can see.  For example, most GIS systems can see SHP
>> (not SDF).
>>
>> But above all, the data should be stored in a database such as Oracle, SQL
>> Server or PostgreSQL & PostGIS.
>>
>> If you do store your data in a database, especially with ArcGIS
>> Enterprise,
>> make sure you are using the databases' native Geometry format and not ESRI
>> Proprietary st geom.
>>
>> Your life will be way easier.
>>
>> If your data is in a neutral database, all GIS systems can view and edit
>> the
>> data (given permissions) and regardless of what comes down the pipe
>> (Autodesk/ESRI/Tesla/Amazon GIS) you are in a position to take advantage.
>>
>> DATA is EVERYTHING.
>>
>> gordon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/MapGuide-Users-f4182607.
>> html
>> ___
>> mapguide-users mailing list
>> mapguide-users@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users
>>
>
>
> ___
> mapguide-users mailing list
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>
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Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Ricardo Pinho]

> Data is EVERYTHING.

That's correct... you should watch the Arnulf (OSGeo) video @ Foss4g 2016!
foss4g-2016-1060-software comes and goes mind the data [Arnulf] - hd on
Vimeo And the KEEP USING OPEN FORMATS is the
only way to have full access and control of YOUR DATA!!!
Don't let them fool you, only TRUE FREE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE can guarantee
interoperability!

There are fantastic and enterprise REAL FREE OPEN SOURCE alternatives to
Mapguide OS and AIMS:
https://www.osgeo.org/choose-a-project/mapping-and-cartography/mapping-services/



2018-04-04 18:56 GMT+01:00 GordonL :

> I really want to be a cynic and to tell management to stop using things
> like
> Google (open source) and basically most of the web running on Linux.
>
> There would be a more of risk to management to move to a platform that is
> not as "open" as MGOS.  However, the key to any thing is the DATA.  Data is
> EVERYTHING.
>
> So, if you do go with ArcGIS Server, for example, make sure your data is a
> format that all GISes can see.  For example, most GIS systems can see SHP
> (not SDF).
>
> But above all, the data should be stored in a database such as Oracle, SQL
> Server or PostgreSQL & PostGIS.
>
> If you do store your data in a database, especially with ArcGIS Enterprise,
> make sure you are using the databases' native Geometry format and not ESRI
> Proprietary st geom.
>
> Your life will be way easier.
>
> If your data is in a neutral database, all GIS systems can view and edit
> the
> data (given permissions) and regardless of what comes down the pipe
> (Autodesk/ESRI/Tesla/Amazon GIS) you are in a position to take advantage.
>
> DATA is EVERYTHING.
>
> gordon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/MapGuide-Users-
> f4182607.html
> ___
> mapguide-users mailing list
> mapguide-users@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapguide-users
>
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Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Martin Morrison]

I really want to stand and clap.  Below is the truth...

Martin Morrison     
Infrastructure Application Engineer/Systems Analyst
 Engineering Design Systems, Inc.
540.345.1410
martin.morri...@edsi.com


-Original Message-
From: mapguide-users [mailto:mapguide-users-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf 
Of GordonL
Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 1:56 PM
To: mapguide-users@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

I really want to be a cynic and to tell management to stop using things like 
Google (open source) and basically most of the web running on Linux.

There would be a more of risk to management to move to a platform that is not 
as "open" as MGOS.  However, the key to any thing is the DATA.  Data is 
EVERYTHING.

So, if you do go with ArcGIS Server, for example, make sure your data is a 
format that all GISes can see.  For example, most GIS systems can see SHP (not 
SDF).

But above all, the data should be stored in a database such as Oracle, SQL 
Server or PostgreSQL & PostGIS.

If you do store your data in a database, especially with ArcGIS Enterprise, 
make sure you are using the databases' native Geometry format and not ESRI 
Proprietary st geom.  

Your life will be way easier.

If your data is in a neutral database, all GIS systems can view and edit the 
data (given permissions) and regardless of what comes down the pipe 
(Autodesk/ESRI/Tesla/Amazon GIS) you are in a position to take advantage.

DATA is EVERYTHING.

gordon

 




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Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[GordonL]

I really want to be a cynic and to tell management to stop using things like
Google (open source) and basically most of the web running on Linux.

There would be a more of risk to management to move to a platform that is
not as "open" as MGOS.  However, the key to any thing is the DATA.  Data is
EVERYTHING.

So, if you do go with ArcGIS Server, for example, make sure your data is a
format that all GISes can see.  For example, most GIS systems can see SHP
(not SDF).

But above all, the data should be stored in a database such as Oracle, SQL
Server or PostgreSQL & PostGIS.

If you do store your data in a database, especially with ArcGIS Enterprise,
make sure you are using the databases' native Geometry format and not ESRI
Proprietary st geom.  

Your life will be way easier.

If your data is in a neutral database, all GIS systems can view and edit the
data (given permissions) and regardless of what comes down the pipe
(Autodesk/ESRI/Tesla/Amazon GIS) you are in a position to take advantage.

DATA is EVERYTHING.

gordon

 




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Re: [mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Hans Milling]

We changed to Open Source a few years ago. We had no issues changing. Getting
rid of all the license issues were the best (vierual servers that change MAC
address were a nightmare). ArcGIS has a lot of limitations in the layer
rules and some other stuff compared to MapGuide. Changing from MapGuide to
ArcGIS is a step back if you ask me.
We have made a tool to Migrate ArcGIS solutions to MapGuide to assist our
clients, who have ArcGIS. The tool take all data and setup (layer themes
etc.) from Arc into MapGuide+MSSQL server setup, but could just as easily
convert to PostGIS or Oracle databases with a few tweaks.

Best Regards
  Hans Milling...



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[mapguide-users] Migration Autodesk to Esri

[Jérôme DUCKERS]

Hi guys,


I read an interresting article about partnership between esri and autodesk.

http://www.esri.com/landing-pages/autodesk-esri-strategic-alliance-aims


I know that we still have mapguide opensource, but my management is a
little afraid with opensource :(

So has someone already taken contact with Esri ? Concerning the transfert
of AIMS Licence to Esri Licence.


Thanks,
Jérôme.
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