Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Commence of the TDF store
Hello Paulo, Le Sun, 4 Sep 2011 15:28:50 -0300, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org a écrit : 2011/9/4 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org Le 04/09/2011 16:38, Danishka Navin a écrit : I am not talking about the TDF community but external people. All right. But *who* are external people? And how can we identify them? For me the only fact someone is using LibreOffice is enough to put him/her in. I think that anyway anyone can use the LibreOffice logo (without the subline) according to our TM policy. But I'm a bit skeptical as to how Paulo defines the people who contribute to LibreOffice and that we apparently are not aware of. We have defined pretty much (and with some range) who are contributors to our community and our project. The notion that somehow these people should not be trusted is weird and not really friendly-sounding. What do you mean, Paulo, that whatever contributors do should be taken with mistrust? Excuse me. where exactly have I said that? In your last email, and actually below once again :-) At least that's how I understand it. My point is exactly the opposite. Please, read my other message on this issue. By the way, I don't think we can point exactly who are LibreOffice contributors and who aren't. We have no tools to do it. I think we do. We have a Membership Committee for that. So yes, we're talking about stores, not about anyone selling a T-shirt. Hummm. I thought we were talking about *our* stores, not *any* store. The decision about whether we set up our own store (meaning our own e-commerce infrastructure) or we'd work with established merchant sites is something we need to discuss and that is of course not made at this point. In fact, anyone can sell a t-shirt with the LibreOffice logo without the TDF subline: I don't think it helps TDF, and I think it does anything but covering the cost of T-shirt production and whatever profit you want to make out of it. I'm not sure what exactly this means. So, correct me if I'm wrong: Anyone is able buy some blank t-shirts, print LibreOffice logo on (without the TDF subline) and sell them. Yes, welcome to Free Software :-) But those people can't have any profit, neither to cover costs promoting LibreOffice, like travels, hotels, folders, subscriptions to events, etc. Wait. This is a completely different topic. When people work together to attend an event, be part of the team of the LibreOffice project there should be a NGO, locally or regionally that should be able to reimburse them. The way it reimburse them is because it collects money and some of that money may come from selling t-shirts. This is a very old, traditional way to work in FOSS communities and I don't see why that would change. Despite of that, some TDF SC members can ask for reimbursement for the same thing, when in a TDF mission, that comes directly from the money that those people, you're saying they can't use LibreOffice community brand for profit, gave to TDF. And the very same thing happens and is happening all over the world, as we speak, in various regional NGOs working to support LibreOffice. I don't see any problem with that. Don't get me wrong, but I think there's something strange in that line of thinking. One thing is profit for itself. Another one is profit for using it in Libreoffice promotion efforts. Yes, you're right. And that's the point I mean with *trust*: TDF should trust people will use the money for promoting LibreOffice. Trust is one thing (in fact my lines above should send you a clear message about the fact that we trust people) but coordination, representation, and a minimum of resources pooling is necessary. A community is not only about selling T-shirts, it's also about development. If you have no developers, or logo designers, I don't know what you'll put on your T-shirts in the end... But I would also see disadvantages as clearly saying that we support anyone using our logo: otherwise why would we have any TM policy (and why would we have a foundation anyway?)? Question is not if TDF supports those people, but if those people support TDF and LibreOffice. and that is the line, right there, where I feel there's mistrust. TDF *makes* LibreOffice. So if people have no confidence in LibreOffice or TDF they will stop using the software. But implying there's a confidence issue between users at large and the project itself is -again- something I don't understand (clearly, I don't see any trust problem, why should people not trust TDF is something I don't see). The simple fact of using a t-shirt is marketing, so it is a marketing effort and supports TDF. Personally, I only use t-shirts from people I identify myself with them. I never would use a t-shirt from Microsoft, would you? I wouldn't and I don't. But I also wear T-shirts of Debian, and it so happens that I
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Thanks for a fantastic Hackfest!
On 9/5/11 2:09 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: I really enjoyed the time, and to me, the Hackfest was a real success! Recipes of pasta hacked in Munich are now online: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest2011#Pasta_Recipes -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Commence of the TDF store
Le Mon, 5 Sep 2011 10:39:54 -0300, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org a écrit : 2011/9/5 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org Hello Paulo, Hi =) Le Sun, 4 Sep 2011 15:28:50 -0300, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org a écrit : 2011/9/4 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org Le 04/09/2011 16:38, Danishka Navin a écrit : I am not talking about the TDF community but external people. All right. But *who* are external people? And how can we identify them? For me the only fact someone is using LibreOffice is enough to put him/her in. I think that anyway anyone can use the LibreOffice logo (without the subline) according to our TM policy. But I'm a bit skeptical as to how Paulo defines the people who contribute to LibreOffice and that we apparently are not aware of. We have defined pretty much (and with some range) who are contributors to our community and our project. The notion that somehow these people should not be trusted is weird and not really friendly-sounding. What do you mean, Paulo, that whatever contributors do should be taken with mistrust? Excuse me. where exactly have I said that? In your last email, and actually below once again :-) At least that's how I understand it. What exactly are you understanding? I didn't get your point. I'm understanding that you claim there's a trust issue between people and TDF. Isn't that what you were writing? My point is exactly the opposite. Please, read my other message on this issue. By the way, I don't think we can point exactly who are LibreOffice contributors and who aren't. We have no tools to do it. I think we do. We have a Membership Committee for that. No, we don't. There's a lot of people contributing to LibreOffice than those who have submited their profiles to MC. Assuming contributors are only TDF members is not the best way to treat this issue. I think it's a starting point, at the very least. If our goal was separate one part of the contributors with the others, why would we have a membership committee? Essentially, what we do (and ask the Debian project, they have much more strict criteria than we have) is make sure meritocracy works. In Debian the bar is much higher, and they don't seem to take care the people who could claim they're contributors but who don't match their criteria for admission. Only in Brazilian community, I can tell you that there's at least about 3 times more people contributing than the submited/accepted TDF members. You would be excluding, for example, Tom Davies from the community as well, and all we know he is contributing a lot to LibreOffice. Being on a mailing list does not equate to contribute. But as for Tom (and anyone) he/she's free to submit his membership request at anytime. So the other people you mention must leave a track or a sign somewhere they're contributing. So yes, we're talking about stores, not about anyone selling a T-shirt. Hummm. I thought we were talking about *our* stores, not *any* store. The decision about whether we set up our own store (meaning our own e-commerce infrastructure) or we'd work with established merchant sites is something we need to discuss and that is of course not made at this point. Indeed. In fact, anyone can sell a t-shirt with the LibreOffice logo without the TDF subline: I don't think it helps TDF, and I think it does anything but covering the cost of T-shirt production and whatever profit you want to make out of it. I'm not sure what exactly this means. So, correct me if I'm wrong: Anyone is able buy some blank t-shirts, print LibreOffice logo on (without the TDF subline) and sell them. Yes, welcome to Free Software :-) I'm in this world much more time than you could imagine. =) But those people can't have any profit, neither to cover costs promoting LibreOffice, like travels, hotels, folders, subscriptions to events, etc. Wait. This is a completely different topic. When people work together to attend an event, be part of the team of the LibreOffice project there should be a NGO, locally or regionally that should be able to reimburse them. The way it reimburse them is because it collects money and some of that money may come from selling t-shirts. This is a very old, traditional way to work in FOSS communities and I don't see why that would change. No, it isn't. You have a centralized thinking, where everything should be controlled by an NGO. No. I am trying to clarify what must be pooled and what should not be. It seems you don't really feel LibreOffice should even have a legal entity, however. Other people have different thinking where the community should have more freedom to act.
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Thanks for a fantastic Hackfest!
Pictures ? 2011/9/5 Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com On 9/5/11 2:09 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: I really enjoyed the time, and to me, the Hackfest was a real success! Recipes of pasta hacked in Munich are now online: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest2011#Pasta_Recipes -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Cheers, Albino Biasutti Neto www.tux-es.org www.binoinformatica.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Thanks for a fantastic Hackfest!
Hi, Albino Biasutti Neto wrote on 2011-09-05 16:59: Pictures ? will follow soon, together with a blogpost :) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Thanks for a fantastic Hackfest!
Hi, Italo Vignoli wrote on 2011-09-05 17:04: Sorry, I was cooking... Anyway, the pasta was cooked for taste and not for appearance, and therefore the look might not be what it should have been in a real restaurant. be assured your pasta was delicious and amazing! ;) Sorry for not mentioning it in my mail, mea culpa... too many people to thank. :) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Thanks for a fantastic Hackfest!
2011/9/5 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Hi, Albino Biasutti Neto wrote on 2011-09-05 16:59: Pictures ? will follow soon, together with a blogpost :) Thank you! Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org** Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+help@global.** libreoffice.org marketing%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/**marketing/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Cheers, Albino Biasutti Neto www.tux-es.org www.binoinformatica.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
