Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013

2013-05-06 Thread Jean Weber
Tom,
It's a small, very participatory conference (less than 50 people), so
one does not just "show up and look around". At last year's
conference, I gave a presentation about the LO Docs project and team,
because the other participants wanted to learn what we were doing, but
that is not required. I learned a lot from the others, including how
they dealt with their communities of users and contributors, as well
as what tools and procedures they used.

--Jean

On 07/05/2013, at 5:37, Tom Davies  wrote:

> Hi :)
> Thanks :)  I meant to pass this on to this list ages ago.  Sorry i didn't!  
> Is there anyone already near enough, perhaps even living in Ohio, that can 
> register in the short time left?
>  One
> http://openhelpconference.com/
>
> I think there is not enough time left to get a proper LibreOffice / TDF 
> presence there but perhaps enough time for individuals to show up and look 
> around?  It's good to note that it's an annual event.
>
> Regards from
>
> Tom :)
>
>
>> 
>> From: Marc Paré 
>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
>> Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 15:36
>> Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>>
>>
>> I have added this event to our website and wiki webcalendars.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> Le 06/05/13 05:37 AM, Tom Davies a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>
 
 From: Shaun McCance 
 To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
 Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 2:35
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 
 2013


 Hi Tom,

 I haven't seen any registrations from any LibreOffice folks. In case
 anybody is considering coming, I want to mention that the hotel room
 block is only available until May 14. Hotel rooms downtown will be
 hard to find after the room block is released.

 Let me know if I can do anything to help.

 Thanks,
 Shaun

 On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 20:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> Has anyone booked in either as participant or to lead a session or give a 
> talk?
>
>
> Does anyone know if it got onto the Marketing Lists Calendar?
>
> Regards from
>
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>> 
>> From: Shaun McCance 
>> To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
>> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 22:37
>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm hosting the Open Help Conference & Sprints again this year
>> on June 15-19 in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
>>
>> http://openhelpconference.com/
>>
>> The first two days are the conference portion. Abut half the
>> time is devoted to presentations, with the rest used for open,
>> attendee-led discussion. This format provides some structure,
>> but still lets everybody share their experiences.
>>
>> On June 17-19, multiple open source documentation teams have
>> documentation sprints. This year I have four rooms of various
>> sizes, centered around a common break area. Sprints are great
>> for building communities and putting focus on a project.
>>
>> Jean joined us last year. I'm not holding my breath that she'll
>> make the long trip from down under again, but it would be nice
>> to see some more LibreOffice documentation people.
>>
>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shaun
>>
>>
>> --
>> Marc Paré
>> m...@marcpare.com
>> http://www.parEntreprise.com
>> parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>> parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
>>
>>
>>
> --
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013

2013-05-06 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :)
Closing date for applications is in a couple of days time.  The 14th.  That's 
this month, May.  That's their last date so you'd need to get it in on the 12th 
or 13th to try to avoid problems.  It's already the 8th.  


Jean from the Docs Team managed to go last year but she lives in Australia (I 
think) so it's not easy for her to just wander over either!  lol

There are plenty of other events so if you can't make this one this year then 
perhaps next year or a different event this year or both.  

Regards from 

Tom :)  






>
> From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster 
>To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013, 0:19
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
> 
>
>
>I did not know that the Brooklyn Bridge was in Cincinnati [laugh over 
>the image].
>
>I wish I still could travel.  That is about a half day traveling from 
>me.  I use to drive back and forth to Columbus OH many time in the '80s.
>
>The conference is in mid-June, so if someone really wanted to they might 
>be able to set up a table there.  It is all up to some people who want 
>to do it and then get it done.  Of course if it is not too late to 
>"order" a table.
>
>I do not remember, but were there someone on our marketing lists, or use 
>to be, that lived in Ohio?  I thought I saw a reference to one on one of 
>the wiki pages, maybe the one where there were names and country/state 
>locations where they lived.
>
>
>On 05/06/2013 03:37 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Thanks :)  I meant to pass this on to this list ages ago.  Sorry i didn't!  
>> Is there anyone already near enough, perhaps even living in Ohio, that can 
>> register in the short time left?
>>
>> http://openhelpconference.com/
>>
>> I think there is not enough time left to get a proper LibreOffice / TDF 
>> presence there but perhaps enough time for individuals to show up and look 
>> around?  It's good to note that it's an annual event.
>>
>> Regards from
>>
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>> 
>>> From: Marc Paré 
>>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
>>> Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 15:36
>>> Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>>>
>>>
>>> I have added this event to our website and wiki webcalendars.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> Le 06/05/13 05:37 AM, Tom Davies a écrit :


> 
> From: Shaun McCance 
> To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 2:35
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 
> 2013
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I haven't seen any registrations from any LibreOffice folks. In case
> anybody is considering coming, I want to mention that the hotel room
> block is only available until May 14. Hotel rooms downtown will be
> hard to find after the room block is released.
>
> Let me know if I can do anything to help.
>
> Thanks,
> Shaun
>
> On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 20:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Has anyone booked in either as participant or to lead a session or give 
>> a talk?
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if it got onto the Marketing Lists Calendar?
>>
>> Regards from
>>
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>> 
>>> From: Shaun McCance 
>>> To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
>>> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 22:37
>>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm hosting the Open Help Conference & Sprints again this year
>>> on June 15-19 in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
>>>
>>> http://openhelpconference.com/
>>>
>>> The first two days are the conference portion. Abut half the
>>> time is devoted to presentations, with the rest used for open,
>>> attendee-led discussion. This format provides some structure,
>>> but still lets everybody share their experiences.
>>>
>>> On June 17-19, multiple open source documentation teams have
>>> documentation sprints. This year I have four rooms of various
>>> sizes, centered around a common break area. Sprints are great
>>> for building communities and putting focus on a project.
>>>
>>> Jean joined us last year. I'm not holding my breath that she'll
>>> make the long trip from down under again, but it would be nice
>>> to see some more LibreOffice documentation people.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Shaun
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Marc Paré
>>> m...@marcpare.com
>>> http://www.parEntreprise.com
>>> parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>>> parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>Problems? http

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013

2013-05-06 Thread Kracked_P_P---webmaster


I did not know that the Brooklyn Bridge was in Cincinnati [laugh over 
the image].


I wish I still could travel.  That is about a half day traveling from 
me.  I use to drive back and forth to Columbus OH many time in the '80s.


The conference is in mid-June, so if someone really wanted to they might 
be able to set up a table there.  It is all up to some people who want 
to do it and then get it done.  Of course if it is not too late to 
"order" a table.


I do not remember, but were there someone on our marketing lists, or use 
to be, that lived in Ohio?  I thought I saw a reference to one on one of 
the wiki pages, maybe the one where there were names and country/state 
locations where they lived.



On 05/06/2013 03:37 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
Thanks :)  I meant to pass this on to this list ages ago.  Sorry i didn't!  Is 
there anyone already near enough, perhaps even living in Ohio, that can 
register in the short time left?

http://openhelpconference.com/

I think there is not enough time left to get a proper LibreOffice / TDF 
presence there but perhaps enough time for individuals to show up and look 
around?  It's good to note that it's an annual event.

Regards from

Tom :)








From: Marc Paré 
To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 15:36
Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013


I have added this event to our website and wiki webcalendars.

Cheers,

Marc

Le 06/05/13 05:37 AM, Tom Davies a écrit :





From: Shaun McCance 
To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 2:35
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013


Hi Tom,

I haven't seen any registrations from any LibreOffice folks. In case
anybody is considering coming, I want to mention that the hotel room
block is only available until May 14. Hotel rooms downtown will be
hard to find after the room block is released.

Let me know if I can do anything to help.

Thanks,
Shaun

On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 20:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
Has anyone booked in either as participant or to lead a session or give a talk?


Does anyone know if it got onto the Marketing Lists Calendar?

Regards from

Tom :)





From: Shaun McCance 
To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 22:37
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013


Hi all,

I'm hosting the Open Help Conference & Sprints again this year
on June 15-19 in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.

http://openhelpconference.com/

The first two days are the conference portion. Abut half the
time is devoted to presentations, with the rest used for open,
attendee-led discussion. This format provides some structure,
but still lets everybody share their experiences.

On June 17-19, multiple open source documentation teams have
documentation sprints. This year I have four rooms of various
sizes, centered around a common break area. Sprints are great
for building communities and putting focus on a project.

Jean joined us last year. I'm not holding my breath that she'll
make the long trip from down under again, but it would be nice
to see some more LibreOffice documentation people.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Shaun



--
Marc Paré
m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org






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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Kracked_P_P---webmaster

On 05/06/2013 04:12 PM, Marc Paré wrote:

Le 06/05/13 03:36 PM, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

Hello Tom,

Your observation is correct I think. But then I'd say that these 
brochures will be  primarily handed to people in venues volunteers of 
the project can exhibit. So you have to think of this brochure in its 
usage and context. I have yet to see the guy next door stumbling on a 
brochure about a FOSS project and adopting it.


My point here is that traditional marketing does not work for FOSS 
and this is why we should -let me repeat it again- market our 
community, not the product. Product advertising.necer hurts of course 
and I am happy this brochure exists but it is one tool aming others, 
not what's going to get us.more downloads.


Best,

Charles.



Obviously this is different from my response to Tom's post. We can 
tweak the brochure to flow the way we wish later at the writing stage. 
The initial points will look similar, but the language/text makeup 
will send the message we want.


Once we get to the writing stage we can perhaps take this discussion 
up if it is necessary.


In the meantime, I look at it from this point of view: If I go to a 
conference, LUG, FOSS conference, educational conference for 
professionals etc., and someone hands me a brochure on "LibreOffice in 
Education", and I had never heard of LibreOffice, then I would want to 
read of its selling points. If you spoke to me of the community, then 
I most likely would not be interested. If I had never heard of 
LibreOffice I would want to read of its virtues in education, the 
reasons as to why I would want to use/adopt it either for myself, my 
school board or for my students. I would not be interested in the 
community until after I was more engaged (sold) on LibreOffice.


Our entry point for most people is the product and of the advantages 
it allows users.


BTW ... we are also going to work on a Brochure-Type: Community, where 
this would be more appropriate.


Cheers,

Marc




I use the brochures as a tool to give the person a place to look at some 
basic info about LO and a URL for more info.  I tend to chat up LO to 
people and then if I see that they are interested in what I am saying, I 
give them my card and a brochure [if I have any with me]. I know of some 
people who took it home and places it on the table where they put their 
car keys [or similar place] and their kids or spouse picked up the 
brochure and asked about what this was all about.  I know about two of 
these cases since they started using LO on their home systems, after 
another talk with me.


Having a brochure handout at a "event" can be used differently. Some 
events need different type of brochures.  Some, like Marc's Education 
conference would want to know specifics about what LO could do for them, 
their students, etc..  Some events are more "community based" where 
having a big community of users and helpers behind the product is a 
concern to people who used a package that was good but there was no real 
community backing to help and support the product's users.


I think right now we need some type of brochures that tell the person 
who read it that this is what LO is and what LO does.  We need a generic 
one that stated that the suite offers these parts, like Draw and Math, 
that might not be something other suites offer. Then there will be the 
need for specific "markets".  What can LO do for the needs of an 
educator and/or the student.  What can LO do for the writer or articles, 
books, and technical manuals.  What can LO do for the user of a specific 
field or market.


Yes, we need to stress our community somewhere, but not a whole brochure 
letting people here use praising out community and its support of our 
users.  A line or two might be all that is needed. Of course having a 
"for more information - go to this URL", is something the brochures will 
need.  If we can write a brochure, or set of brochures, that will be 
picked up and read, then we need to make sure we have a good place for 
the potential user can go to for more information about LO.  I have 
fielded some questions, but the web site, the wiki, and the PDF guides 
should be easy to find and helpful for allowing a potential user to 
become an actual user.


To be honest, we should have started the brochure template and content 
descussion back in the first summer that LO was available for download.  
Then all we would need to do is keep the materials updated.  We needed a 
lot of marketing tools back then.  At least we are working on them now.






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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :)
+1
to everything all 3 said.  


Errr, i don't usually like agreeing but i have to this time.  The brochure was 
designed for a specific purpose, a specific audience, and it achieves that very 
well.  Marc makes a lot of sense about another one for Academics.  Academics 
and Devs are likely to also respond well to "wordy" brochures that would put 
almost everyone else to sleep.  But they are driven by very different 
motivators and use almost a different language from each other of course even 
if it's based on English.  That is something that made Tim&Marc brochure 
effective.  They looked at the target market and wrote specifically for them.  

Regards from 

Tom :)  





>
> From: Jean Weber 
>To: Marc Paré  
>Cc: "marketing@global.libreoffice.org"  
>Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 22:00
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education
> 
>
>On 07/05/2013, at 6:12, Marc Paré  wrote:
>
>> Le 06/05/13 03:36 PM, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
>>> Hello Tom,
>>> 
>>> Your observation is correct I think. But then I'd say that these brochures 
>>> will be  primarily handed to people in venues volunteers of the project can 
>>> exhibit. So you have to think of this brochure in its usage and context. I 
>>> have yet to see the guy next door stumbling on a brochure about a FOSS 
>>> project and adopting it.
>>> 
>>> My point here is that traditional marketing does not work for FOSS and this 
>>> is why we should -let me repeat it again- market our community, not the 
>>> product. Product advertising.necer hurts of course and I am happy this 
>>> brochure exists but it is one tool aming others, not what's going to get 
>>> us.more downloads.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Charles.
>> 
>> Obviously this is different from my response to Tom's post. We can tweak the 
>> brochure to flow the way we wish later at the writing stage. The initial 
>> points will look similar, but the language/text makeup will send the message 
>> we want.
>> 
>> Once we get to the writing stage we can perhaps take this discussion up if 
>> it is necessary.
>> 
>> In the meantime, I look at it from this point of view: If I go to a 
>> conference, LUG, FOSS conference, educational conference for professionals 
>> etc., and someone hands me a brochure on "LibreOffice in Education", and I 
>> had never heard of LibreOffice, then I would want to read of its selling 
>> points. If you spoke to me of the community, then I most likely would not be 
>> interested. If I had never heard of LibreOffice I would want to read of its 
>> virtues in education, the reasons as to why I would want to use/adopt it 
>> either for myself, my school board or for my students. I would not be 
>> interested in the community until after I was more engaged (sold) on 
>> LibreOffice.
>> 
>> Our entry point for most people is the product and of the advantages it 
>> allows users.
>
>
>I completely agree with Marc, especially regarding the eduction sector. 
>
>> 
>> BTW ... we are also going to work on a Brochure-Type: Community, where this 
>> would be more appropriate.
>> 
>
>
>That's one of the types I mentioned in my previous note. I should read all my 
>mail before writing notes. :-)
>
>--Jean
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
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>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Jean Weber
On 07/05/2013, at 6:12, Marc Paré  wrote:

> Le 06/05/13 03:36 PM, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
>> Hello Tom,
>> 
>> Your observation is correct I think. But then I'd say that these brochures 
>> will be  primarily handed to people in venues volunteers of the project can 
>> exhibit. So you have to think of this brochure in its usage and context. I 
>> have yet to see the guy next door stumbling on a brochure about a FOSS 
>> project and adopting it.
>> 
>> My point here is that traditional marketing does not work for FOSS and this 
>> is why we should -let me repeat it again- market our community, not the 
>> product. Product advertising.necer hurts of course and I am happy this 
>> brochure exists but it is one tool aming others, not what's going to get 
>> us.more downloads.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Charles.
> 
> Obviously this is different from my response to Tom's post. We can tweak the 
> brochure to flow the way we wish later at the writing stage. The initial 
> points will look similar, but the language/text makeup will send the message 
> we want.
> 
> Once we get to the writing stage we can perhaps take this discussion up if it 
> is necessary.
> 
> In the meantime, I look at it from this point of view: If I go to a 
> conference, LUG, FOSS conference, educational conference for professionals 
> etc., and someone hands me a brochure on "LibreOffice in Education", and I 
> had never heard of LibreOffice, then I would want to read of its selling 
> points. If you spoke to me of the community, then I most likely would not be 
> interested. If I had never heard of LibreOffice I would want to read of its 
> virtues in education, the reasons as to why I would want to use/adopt it 
> either for myself, my school board or for my students. I would not be 
> interested in the community until after I was more engaged (sold) on 
> LibreOffice.
> 
> Our entry point for most people is the product and of the advantages it 
> allows users.


I completely agree with Marc, especially regarding the eduction sector. 

> 
> BTW ... we are also going to work on a Brochure-Type: Community, where this 
> would be more appropriate.
> 


That's one of the types I mentioned in my previous note. I should read all my 
mail before writing notes. :-)

--Jean
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[libreoffice-marketing] Brochure type: Developers

2013-05-06 Thread Jean Weber
I've not been keeping up well, so this may have been covered already by Marc.

With OSCON coming up in July, I need a brochure aimed at developers. This would 
definitely emphasize the community and why one might want to join and 
contribute. 

Or perhaps a slightly broader audience? Including QA, user support, docs? 
Again, emphasising participation rather than "what's in it for me as a user" or 
"what's in it for my organization?" which are the approaches I would use in, 
say, conferences for educators or non-profits.

--Jean
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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure templates -- Official and Community (easy on ink) versions

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré

Le 04/05/13 05:44 AM, Marc Paré a écrit :




COMMUNITY BROCHURE


The community version is really for conferences, LUG meetings, small
print runs on business/home printers, etc. The community version makes
use of the community logo (it does NOT have the subline "The Document
Foundation". It is also designed to be as "ink-friendly" as possible
without compromising the look and feel of a LibreOffice brochure.

The files can be found here:

[1]
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeV.4.0.x-CommunityBrochureTemplate-A4.odt


[2]
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeV.4.0.x-CommunityBrochureTemplate-USLtr.odt



Just a FYI, Mattias, from the design team, fixed a problem with the 
bottom green bar and has now fixed the bar to the frame. There will no 
longer be any problems with the bars disappearing.


Mattias has also centered the green logo a little better.

If you downloaded the first version of this template, you may want to 
download the newest version. You will probably find that it is easier to 
click on the frames and not worry about those bottom bars. Plus, the 
logo now looks better now that it is really centered!


Thanks Mattias!

Cheers,

Marc


--
Marc Paré
m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré

Le 06/05/13 03:36 PM, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

Hello Tom,

Your observation is correct I think. But then I'd say that these brochures will 
be  primarily handed to people in venues volunteers of the project can exhibit. 
So you have to think of this brochure in its usage and context. I have yet to 
see the guy next door stumbling on a brochure about a FOSS project and adopting 
it.

My point here is that traditional marketing does not work for FOSS and this is 
why we should -let me repeat it again- market our community, not the product. 
Product advertising.necer hurts of course and I am happy this brochure exists 
but it is one tool aming others, not what's going to get us.more downloads.

Best,

Charles.



Obviously this is different from my response to Tom's post. We can tweak 
the brochure to flow the way we wish later at the writing stage. The 
initial points will look similar, but the language/text makeup will send 
the message we want.


Once we get to the writing stage we can perhaps take this discussion up 
if it is necessary.


In the meantime, I look at it from this point of view: If I go to a 
conference, LUG, FOSS conference, educational conference for 
professionals etc., and someone hands me a brochure on "LibreOffice in 
Education", and I had never heard of LibreOffice, then I would want to 
read of its selling points. If you spoke to me of the community, then I 
most likely would not be interested. If I had never heard of LibreOffice 
I would want to read of its virtues in education, the reasons as to why 
I would want to use/adopt it either for myself, my school board or for 
my students. I would not be interested in the community until after I 
was more engaged (sold) on LibreOffice.


Our entry point for most people is the product and of the advantages it 
allows users.


BTW ... we are also going to work on a Brochure-Type: Community, where 
this would be more appropriate.


Cheers,

Marc


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré
I've set up a wiki page with the steps and some points that I think 
important to put in the brochure[1]. We are only in the "brainstorming" 
of ideas at this point. The more points we put there with respect to 
LibreOffice being important in the educational field the better.


Please do not remove any points until it is discussed on this thread. 
Feel free to add points. Don't worry about the amount of points on the 
page as we will prioritize the list of points if necessary.


If you are interested in contributing, just add your comments to this 
thread and someone will put it up on the wiki page.


NOTE: If you are part of an nl group, feel free to pass the word along 
and come back to let us know of any suggestions from your team.


NOTE: If you are not used to working on the wiki and would like to 
learn, send me a note and I will give you some help to get started. It 
would be great to get more people to help out with the collection of 
notes and putting them up on the wiki. We have about 15 different 
brochure-types to create.


BTW ... We need more "note takers" and more members who can help to 
"beautify" the wiki and keep the information in readable order ... this 
is the kind of work that you would do when you feel like it.


Cheers,

Marc

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/brochuretypes/Education


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré

Le 06/05/13 02:53 PM, Tom Davies a écrit :

Hi :)
I get the impression that the brochure we have been looking at is for 
informational NOT marketing purposes.  It's going to be for people that have 
already been attracted to the product and want to know more.


For kids or even just normal marketing it's going to need to be MUCH less 
verbose and have a lot more images rather than words, and a lot of white-space 
too of course.

Regards from

Tom :)



Let's keep this for marketing LibreOffice to those who have not 
experienced it, those who are uncertain. These brochures are to take to 
conferences, LUG's, meets etc. We are trying to convince people to 
try/adopt LibreOffice as their office suite of choice.


If people want more information, then the docs team should be doing that 
through the "Intro to LibreOffice" line of books which is already well 
done.


Sure, there will be a lot of information being thrown around, but this 
is how marketing goes about doing it. We are trying to "sell" the 
LibreOffice brand.


Cheers,

Marc


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013

2013-05-06 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :)
Thanks :)  I meant to pass this on to this list ages ago.  Sorry i didn't!  Is 
there anyone already near enough, perhaps even living in Ohio, that can 
register in the short time left?  

http://openhelpconference.com/

I think there is not enough time left to get a proper LibreOffice / TDF 
presence there but perhaps enough time for individuals to show up and look 
around?  It's good to note that it's an annual event.  

Regards from 

Tom :)  






>
> From: Marc Paré 
>To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 15:36
>Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
> 
>
>I have added this event to our website and wiki webcalendars.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>Le 06/05/13 05:37 AM, Tom Davies a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>>> 
>>> From: Shaun McCance 
>>> To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
>>> Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 2:35
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any registrations from any LibreOffice folks. In case
>>> anybody is considering coming, I want to mention that the hotel room
>>> block is only available until May 14. Hotel rooms downtown will be
>>> hard to find after the room block is released.
>>>
>>> Let me know if I can do anything to help.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Shaun
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 20:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:
 Hi :)
 Has anyone booked in either as participant or to lead a session or give a 
 talk?


 Does anyone know if it got onto the Marketing Lists Calendar?

 Regards from

 Tom :)



> 
> From: Shaun McCance 
> To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 22:37
> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm hosting the Open Help Conference & Sprints again this year
> on June 15-19 in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
>
> http://openhelpconference.com/
>
> The first two days are the conference portion. Abut half the
> time is devoted to presentations, with the rest used for open,
> attendee-led discussion. This format provides some structure,
> but still lets everybody share their experiences.
>
> On June 17-19, multiple open source documentation teams have
> documentation sprints. This year I have four rooms of various
> sizes, centered around a common break area. Sprints are great
> for building communities and putting focus on a project.
>
> Jean joined us last year. I'm not holding my breath that she'll
> make the long trip from down under again, but it would be nice
> to see some more LibreOffice documentation people.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Shaun
>
>
>-- 
>Marc Paré
>m...@marcpare.com
>http://www.parEntreprise.com
>parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Tom,

Your observation is correct I think. But then I'd say that these brochures will 
be  primarily handed to people in venues volunteers of the project can exhibit. 
So you have to think of this brochure in its usage and context. I have yet to 
see the guy next door stumbling on a brochure about a FOSS project and adopting 
it.

My point here is that traditional marketing does not work for FOSS and this is 
why we should -let me repeat it again- market our community, not the product. 
Product advertising.necer hurts of course and I am happy this brochure exists 
but it is one tool aming others, not what's going to get us.more downloads.

Best,

Charles.


Tom Davies  a écrit :
>Hi :)
>I get the impression that the brochure we have been looking at is for
>informational NOT marketing purposes.  It's going to be for people that
>have already been attracted to the product and want to know more.  
>
>
>For kids or even just normal marketing it's going to need to be MUCH
>less verbose and have a lot more images rather than words, and a lot of
>white-space too of course.  
>
>Regards from 
>
>Tom :)  
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster 
>>To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
>>Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 19:09
>>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education
>> 
>>
>>On 05/06/2013 01:42 PM, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:
>>> 2013/5/6 Marc Paré 
 I would like to work on the Education brochure. As we do not, as
>yet,
>>> have any text/content for this brochure, I think the following
>approach
>>> would be the best way to work:
 [*First:*] identify the different points that we think should be
>included
>>> in the brochure.
 [*Second:*] write up the text on this list; proof the text and get
>>> approval of the text by the marketing team and Italo/Charles.
 [*Third:*] put the text on the official template and work on adding
>>> icons/graphics (may need some help from design team). Some of the
>text may
>>> need trimming or may need addition. Not to forget that white space
>in the
>>> brochure is not a bad thing. It gives the eyes a rest.
 [*Fourth:*] complete the official version, get final approval from
>the
>>> marketing/design teams (because it may have some design elements),
>>> Italo/Charles. If all OK, complete the Official A4/USLtr and
>Community
>>> A4/USLtr versions.
 [*Fifth:*] Announce on the Projects list that this brochure version
>is
>>> ready.
 How does this sound?
>>>
>>> That's a great idea!
>>>
>>
>>If we can get the kids using LO early or get the high school [9-12 
>>grades] and college students to start using LO, it would go a long way
>
>>towards getting more of the Windows market place users.  Also letting 
>>the parents know that there is a free alternative to buying/renting
>MSO 
>>for their kid's computer for home use or the one that is taken to 
>>college.  Paying MSO "blackmail" renting policy is not something most 
>>parents can afford to do anymore.
>>
>>Let the kids and their parents know how well that LO can fit their 
>>educational needs and their wallets is needed.  We need any ideas and 
>>materials to help.
>>
>>I know that there are some add on dictionaries out there meant for 
>>specific courses or fields of study.  That might be useful to
>explore.  
>>If I can get the proper words and/or word lists, I would make more 
>>dictionaries specifically for them.
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>>Problems?
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>deleted
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :)
I get the impression that the brochure we have been looking at is for 
informational NOT marketing purposes.  It's going to be for people that have 
already been attracted to the product and want to know more.  


For kids or even just normal marketing it's going to need to be MUCH less 
verbose and have a lot more images rather than words, and a lot of white-space 
too of course.  

Regards from 

Tom :)  





>
> From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster 
>To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 19:09
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education
> 
>
>On 05/06/2013 01:42 PM, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:
>> 2013/5/6 Marc Paré 
>>> I would like to work on the Education brochure. As we do not, as yet,
>> have any text/content for this brochure, I think the following approach
>> would be the best way to work:
>>> [*First:*] identify the different points that we think should be included
>> in the brochure.
>>> [*Second:*] write up the text on this list; proof the text and get
>> approval of the text by the marketing team and Italo/Charles.
>>> [*Third:*] put the text on the official template and work on adding
>> icons/graphics (may need some help from design team). Some of the text may
>> need trimming or may need addition. Not to forget that white space in the
>> brochure is not a bad thing. It gives the eyes a rest.
>>> [*Fourth:*] complete the official version, get final approval from the
>> marketing/design teams (because it may have some design elements),
>> Italo/Charles. If all OK, complete the Official A4/USLtr and Community
>> A4/USLtr versions.
>>> [*Fifth:*] Announce on the Projects list that this brochure version is
>> ready.
>>> How does this sound?
>>
>> That's a great idea!
>>
>
>If we can get the kids using LO early or get the high school [9-12 
>grades] and college students to start using LO, it would go a long way 
>towards getting more of the Windows market place users.  Also letting 
>the parents know that there is a free alternative to buying/renting MSO 
>for their kid's computer for home use or the one that is taken to 
>college.  Paying MSO "blackmail" renting policy is not something most 
>parents can afford to do anymore.
>
>Let the kids and their parents know how well that LO can fit their 
>educational needs and their wallets is needed.  We need any ideas and 
>materials to help.
>
>I know that there are some add on dictionaries out there meant for 
>specific courses or fields of study.  That might be useful to explore.  
>If I can get the proper words and/or word lists, I would make more 
>dictionaries specifically for them.
>
>
>
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>To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Kracked_P_P---webmaster

On 05/06/2013 01:42 PM, Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote:

2013/5/6 Marc Paré 

I would like to work on the Education brochure. As we do not, as yet,

have any text/content for this brochure, I think the following approach
would be the best way to work:

[*First:*] identify the different points that we think should be included

in the brochure.

[*Second:*] write up the text on this list; proof the text and get

approval of the text by the marketing team and Italo/Charles.

[*Third:*] put the text on the official template and work on adding

icons/graphics (may need some help from design team). Some of the text may
need trimming or may need addition. Not to forget that white space in the
brochure is not a bad thing. It gives the eyes a rest.

[*Fourth:*] complete the official version, get final approval from the

marketing/design teams (because it may have some design elements),
Italo/Charles. If all OK, complete the Official A4/USLtr and Community
A4/USLtr versions.

[*Fifth:*] Announce on the Projects list that this brochure version is

ready.

How does this sound?


That's a great idea!



If we can get the kids using LO early or get the high school [9-12 
grades] and college students to start using LO, it would go a long way 
towards getting more of the Windows market place users.  Also letting 
the parents know that there is a free alternative to buying/renting MSO 
for their kid's computer for home use or the one that is taken to 
college.  Paying MSO "blackmail" renting policy is not something most 
parents can afford to do anymore.


Let the kids and their parents know how well that LO can fit their 
educational needs and their wallets is needed.  We need any ideas and 
materials to help.


I know that there are some add on dictionaries out there meant for 
specific courses or fields of study.  That might be useful to explore.  
If I can get the proper words and/or word lists, I would make more 
dictionaries specifically for them.




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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Daniel A. Rodriguez
2013/5/6 Marc Paré 
>
> I would like to work on the Education brochure. As we do not, as yet,
have any text/content for this brochure, I think the following approach
would be the best way to work:
>
> [*First:*] identify the different points that we think should be included
in the brochure.
>
> [*Second:*] write up the text on this list; proof the text and get
approval of the text by the marketing team and Italo/Charles.
>
> [*Third:*] put the text on the official template and work on adding
icons/graphics (may need some help from design team). Some of the text may
need trimming or may need addition. Not to forget that white space in the
brochure is not a bad thing. It gives the eyes a rest.
>
> [*Fourth:*] complete the official version, get final approval from the
marketing/design teams (because it may have some design elements),
Italo/Charles. If all OK, complete the Official A4/USLtr and Community
A4/USLtr versions.
>
> [*Fifth:*] Announce on the Projects list that this brochure version is
ready.
>
> How does this sound?


That's a great idea!




--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Escuelas Libres :: Porque la educación es mucho mejor cuando es libre
www.escuelaslibres.org.ar
---
Para entrenar, cualquier programa sirve. Para educar, sólo Software Libre.
(Federico Heinz)
---

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[libreoffice-marketing] Brochure-type: Education

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré
I would like to work on the Education brochure. As we do not, as yet, 
have any text/content for this brochure, I think the following approach 
would be the best way to work:


[*First:*] identify the different points that we think should be 
included in the brochure.


[*Second:*] write up the text on this list; proof the text and get 
approval of the text by the marketing team and Italo/Charles.


[*Third:*] put the text on the official template and work on adding 
icons/graphics (may need some help from design team). Some of the text 
may need trimming or may need addition. Not to forget that white space 
in the brochure is not a bad thing. It gives the eyes a rest.


[*Fourth:*] complete the official version, get final approval from the 
marketing/design teams (because it may have some design elements), 
Italo/Charles. If all OK, complete the Official A4/USLtr and Community 
A4/USLtr versions.


[*Fifth:*] Announce on the Projects list that this brochure version is 
ready.


How does this sound?

Cheers,

Marc


--
Marc Paré
m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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[libreoffice-marketing] TDF/LibreOffice Brochure Workspace wiki page

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré

Hi everyone,

I have created a "TDF/LibreOffice Brochure Workspace" wiki page[1]. We 
can use it to track the work done on the content and text of the 
different brochure types as we complete them.


Feel free to add any more types should you think we are missing any.

I have also added the NL (native language) navigation bar. Feel free to 
get you own teams working on any of the text and you can help us out by 
submitting your version of text on the Marketing list for 
translation/localization in EN OR discuss any of the brochure-types with 
your nl marketing teams and have someone from your nl marketing team 
relay back any suggestions in EN to this list.


Also note that Italo and Charles will have a LARGE say as to what will 
appear in some (if not all) of the brochures.


For those of you who are not familiar with our Marketing Team structure, 
Italo and Charles are our lead marketing team members -- they share 
responsibilities for all that is marketing of the project.


Cheers,

Marc

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/brochuretypes


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: General Information

2013-05-06 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :)
+1
Perhaps remove "also" as Base is at it's strongest when used as a front-end.  
It seems to be  the default way of using Base and it's much easier to get Base 
to co-operate with that than it is with Access.  So, perhaps 


Writer is a full-featured word processing application, which can also 
work as a desktop publishing tool. It's simple enough to use for a quick memo, 
but powerful enough to create complete books with contents, 
diagrams and indexes. You're free to concentrate on your message, while 
Writer will make it look great.

Base is a desktop database 
designed to meet the needs of most users.  It is a valuable and powerful 
asset to link to the other LibreOffice applications.  Base can  be a good 
front-end to many enterprise-class databases such as MySql/MariaDB or 
PostgreSQL.


Regards from 

Tom :)  





>
> From: Italo Vignoli 
>To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 16:30
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: General Information
> 
>
>Il 06/05/2013 17:18, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto:
>
>> Italo?
>
>I would change slightly the Writer text and tone down the Base one.
>
>My proposal:
>
>Writer is a full-featured word processing application, which can also work as 
>a desktop publishing tool. It's simple enough to use for a quick memo, but 
>powerful enough to create complete books with contents, diagrams and indexes. 
>You're free to concentrate on your message, while Writer will make it look 
>great.
>
>Base is a desktop database designed to meet the needs of most users. It is a 
>valuable and powerful asset to link to the other LibreOffice applications. 
>Base can also be used as a front-end to many enterprise-class databases.
>
>-- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
>mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
>skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: General Information

2013-05-06 Thread Italo Vignoli

Il 06/05/2013 17:18, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto:


Italo?


I would change slightly the Writer text and tone down the Base one.

My proposal:

Writer is a full-featured word processing application, which can also 
work as a desktop publishing tool. It's simple enough to use for a quick 
memo, but powerful enough to create complete books with contents, 
diagrams and indexes. You're free to concentrate on your message, while 
Writer will make it look great.


Base is a desktop database designed to meet the needs of most users. It 
is a valuable and powerful asset to link to the other LibreOffice 
applications. Base can also be used as a front-end to many 
enterprise-class databases.


--
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: General Information

2013-05-06 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le lundi 06 mai 2013 à 17:06 +0200, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
> Il 06/05/2013 16:39, Marc Paré ha scritto:
> 
> > It should really be read through by someone else than just Tim and myself.
> 
> I will have a look ASAP.
> 


Marc, it looks good to me. I'm not too sure about the wording about
Writer: the fact that it has everything that a modern word processor has
implicitly sounds somewhat defensive. 

Other than that, great stuff (I like the ODF part for instance). 

Italo?
-- 
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Co-Founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: General Information

2013-05-06 Thread Italo Vignoli

Il 06/05/2013 16:39, Marc Paré ha scritto:


It should really be read through by someone else than just Tim and myself.


I will have a look ASAP.

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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Brochure-type: General Information

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré

Le 04/05/13 05:54 AM, Marc Paré a écrit :

This is the thread to develop the brochure-type "General Information"
brochure. I have uploaded a sample brochure with the content. We should
first re-read the content, and once we have agreed on the content,
proofed the content and formatted the content, we can move on to
completing the rest of the remaining 3 versions of this brochure.

The reason I started with the USLtr is that Tim says that he has a
pressing need for this particular type of community brochure for an
upcoming meeting/event.

Please have a look at the content and make any suggestions to improve
the text on this thread.

You may find the file here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOfficeV.4.0.x-CommunityBrochure-GeneralInformation-USLtr.odt





If any of the marketing team has time, please read through the text on 
this brochure and let us know if the content is OK, or if there are 
edits needed or corrections. It only takes maybe 5-10 minutes of your 
time to do this and it would be a great help to get some feedback.


Otherwise, we will go ahead with the text and adopt it for our general 
information brochure.


It should really be read through by someone else than just Tim and myself.

Cheers,

Marc


--
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m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013

2013-05-06 Thread Marc Paré

I have added this event to our website and wiki webcalendars.

Cheers,

Marc

Le 06/05/13 05:37 AM, Tom Davies a écrit :








From: Shaun McCance 
To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 2:35
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013


Hi Tom,

I haven't seen any registrations from any LibreOffice folks. In case
anybody is considering coming, I want to mention that the hotel room
block is only available until May 14. Hotel rooms downtown will be
hard to find after the room block is released.

Let me know if I can do anything to help.

Thanks,
Shaun

On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 20:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
Has anyone booked in either as participant or to lead a session or give a talk?


Does anyone know if it got onto the Marketing Lists Calendar?

Regards from

Tom :)








From: Shaun McCance 
To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 22:37
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013


Hi all,

I'm hosting the Open Help Conference & Sprints again this year
on June 15-19 in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.

http://openhelpconference.com/

The first two days are the conference portion. Abut half the
time is devoted to presentations, with the rest used for open,
attendee-led discussion. This format provides some structure,
but still lets everybody share their experiences.

On June 17-19, multiple open source documentation teams have
documentation sprints. This year I have four rooms of various
sizes, centered around a common break area. Sprints are great
for building communities and putting focus on a project.

Jean joined us last year. I'm not holding my breath that she'll
make the long trip from down under again, but it would be nice
to see some more LibreOffice documentation people.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Shaun



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parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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[libreoffice-marketing] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013

2013-05-06 Thread Tom Davies





>
> From: Shaun McCance 
>To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Monday, 6 May 2013, 2:35
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
> 
>
>Hi Tom,
>
>I haven't seen any registrations from any LibreOffice folks. In case
>anybody is considering coming, I want to mention that the hotel room
>block is only available until May 14. Hotel rooms downtown will be
>hard to find after the room block is released.
>
>Let me know if I can do anything to help.
>
>Thanks,
>Shaun
>
>On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 20:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Has anyone booked in either as participant or to lead a session or give a 
>> talk?  
>> 
>> 
>> Does anyone know if it got onto the Marketing Lists Calendar?  
>> 
>> Regards from 
>> 
>> Tom :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > From: Shaun McCance 
>> >To: documentat...@global.libreoffice.org 
>> >Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013, 22:37
>> >Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Open Help Conference & Sprints 2013
>> > 
>> >
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >I'm hosting the Open Help Conference & Sprints again this year
>> >on June 15-19 in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
>> >
>> >http://openhelpconference.com/
>> >
>> >The first two days are the conference portion. Abut half the
>> >time is devoted to presentations, with the rest used for open,
>> >attendee-led discussion. This format provides some structure,
>> >but still lets everybody share their experiences.
>> >
>> >On June 17-19, multiple open source documentation teams have
>> >documentation sprints. This year I have four rooms of various
>> >sizes, centered around a common break area. Sprints are great
>> >for building communities and putting focus on a project.
>> >
>> >Jean joined us last year. I'm not holding my breath that she'll
>> >make the long trip from down under again, but it would be nice
>> >to see some more LibreOffice documentation people.
>> >
>> >Let me know if you have any questions.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Shaun
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
>> >documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org
>> >Problems? 
>> >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>> >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
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>> >deleted
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
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