Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?
Dear Jonathon and Drew, On 4/18/19 2:46 AM, jonathon wrote:> On 4/17/19 9:11 PM, Roland Hummel wrote: > >> "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO we will have artificial intelligence". > > If the battlefield is functionality, and AI is important,in 2018 ... maybe I didn't get your point but what I wanted to underline is that if LO tries to fight on the "battelfield of funtionality" it will *always* loose because of less money power, lobby power and marketing power. So my point is: Choose a battlefield where your opponents can not beat you: The battlefield of sociality, freedom and openness! > Which underscores that the big issue in the functionality war, is not > what is available, but rather, the knowledge that the features are > available, and how to use them. I totally agree but in my opinion it would be the worst approach to advertise a good documentation in the perspective of "funtionality". In terms of freedom the best documentations are the ones created by the users who use a "product" (that's why Wikipedia is so successfull: The knowledge of the people of the world created by the people of the world). But the idea of community created knowledge should be always derived from sociality and openness - yes it *can* be a functional advantage/aspect as well (because knowledge can be maintained without gatekeepers, an aspect Wikipedia seems to forget from time to time) but this perspective of functionaly has to be subordinated to avoid the argument of a company offering a proprietary product saying "our documentation is very well maintained and we will always keep it up to date by our professional knowledge base team" (which indeed could be the case so that this company would win the debate because it can serve a much better documentation in a functional perspective). > End users can more easily customize LibO, than MSO, etc. Sure they can, because LO respects their freedom and because of this freedom it offers better functionality for developers (not the other way around). > For most organizations, ethics is nothing more than a feel-good talking > point. Something that is neither implemented, nor observed. > As such, appeals based on ethical principles fall upon deaf ears. A agree but you seem to reduce freedom to ethics. What I wanted to underline is that the "battlefield of freedom" offers a superior position for LO for a very wide audience: Commercial organizations will get the freedom of indipendence (that's why Google&Co use GNU/Linux for server farms and not Windows). So "freedom" can mean "commercial autonomy" as well that's why the argumentation would allow LO to address any kind of audience by convincing users with a "feature" that no one else can offer (freedom). > Neither people nor organizations are concerned about those things, until > they discover that their data has been passed on to nefarious third > parties, by their software vendor. That's why a good promo trailer like the one of publiccode.eu explains this aspect very well so that organiszations will remember it once they are affected. Example: In my last job I tried to convince a private university to use LimeSurvey as survey tool anstead of QuestionPro. They didn't listen because QuestionPro offered accounts without paying money for it and this way the university didn't need to host anything. Now someone told me that QuestionPro cut the access to all accounts (and the saved scientific data) from one day to the next (yes, maybe the university forgot some kind of deadline for the "free accounts") but now the decision makers understand my argumentation why it is better to go for a freedom respecting software like LimeSurvey. > A white paper showing how LibO meets requirements for various privacy > related legislation might be useful here. Well, LO can mention this but as long legislation is made my the companies this is no battlefield Free Software should choose to convince. Guess why Europe is a software colony of Microsoft: For one politician in the EU there are 20 lobbyists. Legislation is made by companies for companies (compare Caspar Bowden: "The Cloud Conspiracy 2008-2014 : how the EU was hypnotised that the NSA did not exist" [1]). >> In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational sector and NGOs, > > The question to be addressed here, is "Who can be sued, if things go > wrong?" > > Whilst Microsoft's _Terms and Conditions_ claim no liability, that > doesn't prevent support companies from being sued, when things go wrong. > > This is where a lawyer is needed, to explain either who could > sucessfully be sued, if LibO goes wrong, or why such a lawsuit would not > be filable in the first place. Well, I hope I got your point: It is very relieving if you can say "sry, not my department because the service is not hosted by our datacenter" but consider my QuestionPro/LimeSurvey example above: Does a sue will provide you access to your data when you need it right now? ;) >> n
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: List of Web Hosting providers offering LibreOffice Online as part of their service?
Howdy, On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:26 PM Warren Camilleri wrote: > Sorry for crashing into the thread, > > For example i run my own systems, and would like to run and offer > LO-Online as i just found out about it from this thread and would like to > try it my self before i may recommend to educational and SME's (as best to > answer thier IT sections questions when asked), may someone refer me to the > documentation to host it? additionally i would me able to do artwork and > write ups if needed for this, in English and Maltese. > First thing; If you have a newer version of LibreOffice then you already have LibreOffice Online - the online version is the the desktop version. What is different, the application would run headless and properly configured work within a LAMP environment. There are some blog posts that cover how to do that (I don't have links right off hand) but it would be less then overwhelming if you just fired up a copy of LibreOffice from within your LAMP server. Second; the pieces that need to be added on to LibreOffie when running behind your web server are delivered by marrying LO with a content management system. NextCloud integration is a good example of this. You can find information on that at the NextCloud webiste: https://nextcloud.com/collaboraonline/ and you will notice that Collabora, a vendor which is on the advisory board for TDF and which supplies much of the engineering resources behind the effort, is who supplies the production ready incantation of LibreOffice Online. Third; if you want an easy way to test this, the Collabora folks offer appliances (docker image for example) with both NextCloud and Collabora Office ready to go. You can find information on that here: https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/ Finally, If you are going to look at deploying within your organization then I would highly recommend you look at a support contract from a Document Foundation Certified vendor. Best wishes, Drew > > i may also blog about this on ossmalta.eu and ask if the local linux user > group would like to collaborate on this for the Maltese region for raising > awareness. > > regards, > Warren. > > On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 17:34, Drew Jensen > wrote: > >> Howdy Cor, et al, >> >> Yes about market share, the reason I thought it a worthwhile to help drive >> (advertise...can I say that here) usage via hosting operators as they >> should be a healthy source of 'food [revenue] for feeding the bulldog >> [paid development]'. >> >> Also Yes, list maintenance is an issue. >> >> Maybe come at it as a blog post consisting of a survey of which web >> hosting >> operations are already offering Collabora Online (LibreOffice Online) with >> some details of those offerings. This becomes a snapshot in time then >> instead of a list needing update. >> >> I don't know if NextCloud w/ Collabora Online is the only news which could >> go in that article. As you say there is a difference between LibreOffice >> Online and Collabora Online, so if there are organizations deploying >> LibreOffice Online differently and some information could be had for >> inclusion I think that would be a good idea. >> >> Maybe not a bad idea for an online tech journal article either, just >> saying. >> >> Best wishes, >> Drew >> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 10:57 AM Cor Nouws wrote: >> >> > Hi Drew, all, >> > >> > Drew Jensen wrote on 4/17/19 3:49 PM: >> > >> > > So I think it would be good to create a list that has some chance of >> > being >> > > found if someone searched for 'Web hosts offering LibreOffice Online' >> or >> > > something similar. >> > >> > Thanks for bringing this up :) >> > Three thoughts: >> > Initially, it can be a good idea. Maybe. I guess it can help grow >> > market. Maintaining lists, is often a problem we know. Especially >> > since... how can we find the new/existing locations? >> > Please note by the way, that there is Collabora Online and LibreOffice >> > Online. Similar function wise, but different in support probably. >> > Will it, when people know about it and start to search, ask at providers >> > e.g., have a stimulating effect? >> > >> > greetings, >> > Cor >> > >> > -- >> > Cor Nouws >> > GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 >> 80A6 >> > - vrijwilliger https://nl.libreoffice.org >> > - volunteer https://www.libreoffice.org >> > - Member Board The Document Foundation >> > - http://www.nouenoff.nl / https://www.mijncloudoffice.nl >> > >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?
On 4/19/19 1:19 PM, Roland Hummel wrote: > Well, LO can mention this but as long legislation is made my the > companies this is no battlefield Free Software should choose to > convince. Guess why Europe is a software colony of Microsoft: For one > politician in the EU there are 20 lobbyists. Legislation is made by > companies for companies (compare Caspar Bowden: "The Cloud Conspiracy > 2008-2014 : how the EU was hypnotised that the NSA did not exist" [1]). Sorry, I forgot to add the link: [1] https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6195_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201412272145_-_the_cloud_conspiracy_2008-2014_-_caspar_bowden -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: List of Web Hosting providers offering LibreOffice Online as part of their service?
Howdy Warren, et al In that last email I really should off directed you to the main website https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ I think the links, bottom of the page, answer your questions. drew On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 8:49 AM Drew Jensen wrote: > Howdy, > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:26 PM Warren Camilleri < > warrencamill...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sorry for crashing into the thread, >> >> For example i run my own systems, and would like to run and offer >> LO-Online as i just found out about it from this thread and would like to >> try it my self before i may recommend to educational and SME's (as best to >> answer thier IT sections questions when asked), may someone refer me to the >> documentation to host it? additionally i would me able to do artwork and >> write ups if needed for this, in English and Maltese. >> > > First thing; If you have a newer version of LibreOffice then you already > have LibreOffice Online - the online version is the the desktop version. > What is different, the application would run headless and properly > configured work within a LAMP environment. There are some blog posts that > cover how to do that (I don't have links right off hand) but it would be > less then overwhelming if you just fired up a copy of LibreOffice from > within your LAMP server. > > Second; the pieces that need to be added on to LibreOffie when running > behind your web server are delivered by marrying LO with a content > management system. NextCloud integration is a good example of this. > You can find information on that at the NextCloud webiste: > https://nextcloud.com/collaboraonline/ and you will notice that > Collabora, a vendor which is on the advisory board for TDF and which > supplies much of the engineering resources behind the effort, is who > supplies the production ready incantation of LibreOffice Online. > > Third; if you want an easy way to test this, the Collabora folks offer > appliances (docker image for example) with both NextCloud and Collabora > Office ready to go. You can find information on that here: > https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/ > > Finally, If you are going to look at deploying within your organization > then I would highly recommend you look at a support contract from a > Document Foundation Certified vendor. > > Best wishes, > > Drew > > >> >> i may also blog about this on ossmalta.eu and ask if the local linux >> user group would like to collaborate on this for the Maltese region for >> raising awareness. >> >> regards, >> Warren. >> >> On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 17:34, Drew Jensen >> wrote: >> >>> Howdy Cor, et al, >>> >>> Yes about market share, the reason I thought it a worthwhile to help >>> drive >>> (advertise...can I say that here) usage via hosting operators as they >>> should be a healthy source of 'food [revenue] for feeding the bulldog >>> [paid development]'. >>> >>> Also Yes, list maintenance is an issue. >>> >>> Maybe come at it as a blog post consisting of a survey of which web >>> hosting >>> operations are already offering Collabora Online (LibreOffice Online) >>> with >>> some details of those offerings. This becomes a snapshot in time then >>> instead of a list needing update. >>> >>> I don't know if NextCloud w/ Collabora Online is the only news which >>> could >>> go in that article. As you say there is a difference between LibreOffice >>> Online and Collabora Online, so if there are organizations deploying >>> LibreOffice Online differently and some information could be had for >>> inclusion I think that would be a good idea. >>> >>> Maybe not a bad idea for an online tech journal article either, just >>> saying. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Drew >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 10:57 AM Cor Nouws wrote: >>> >>> > Hi Drew, all, >>> > >>> > Drew Jensen wrote on 4/17/19 3:49 PM: >>> > >>> > > So I think it would be good to create a list that has some chance of >>> > being >>> > > found if someone searched for 'Web hosts offering LibreOffice >>> Online' or >>> > > something similar. >>> > >>> > Thanks for bringing this up :) >>> > Three thoughts: >>> > Initially, it can be a good idea. Maybe. I guess it can help grow >>> > market. Maintaining lists, is often a problem we know. Especially >>> > since... how can we find the new/existing locations? >>> > Please note by the way, that there is Collabora Online and LibreOffice >>> > Online. Similar function wise, but different in support probably. >>> > Will it, when people know about it and start to search, ask at >>> providers >>> > e.g., have a stimulating effect? >>> > >>> > greetings, >>> > Cor >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Cor Nouws >>> > GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 >>> 80A6 >>> > - vrijwilliger https://nl.libreoffice.org >>> > - volunteer https://www.libreoffice.org >>> > - Member Board The Document Foundation >>> > - http://www.nouenoff.nl / https://www.mijncloudoffice.nl >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@g
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?
Hi Nigel, sorry I forgot to answer you: On 4/16/19 11:42 AM, Nigel Verity wrote: > Liberation and social responsibility should certainly appeal to individuals, > but any justification for using LO which strays into the territory of > "politics" may be of less appeal to companies. There will surely be > decision-makers who have a social conscience but in the main I would suggest > that a company which selects its business applications based on ethics rather > than functionality is not doing its job properly. I don't necessarily applaud > that standpoint but I think it is a fact all the same. See my answer to Jonathon: "A agree but you seem to reduce freedom to ethics. What I wanted to underline is that the "battlefield of freedom" offers a superior position for LO for a very wide audience: Commercial organizations will get the freedom of indipendence (that's why Google&Co use GNU/Linux for server farms and not Windows). So "freedom" can mean "commercial autonomy" as well that's why the argumentation would allow LO to address any kind of audience by convincing users with a "feature" that no one else can offer (freedom)." > In short, I don't think LO should be promoted like those adverts we see > proclaiming "buy our product because x% of our profits go to charity". Sure. adverts like this were never an implication of my point of view because IT-Monopolists will be much better on the "battlefield of charity" as well (more money and more marketing power to infiltrate this sector, exmaple: "Charities on Facebook") [1]. > LO is world-class software that justifies its existence on functionality > alone. I think the challenge is to get the ethics message across without its > being seen as a "bolt on" to increase its appeal further. Sorry, I disagree. If you don't derive the functionality advantages from the ethical aspects you will loose any debate, but I think I've written enough about this perspective. Best regards Roland [1] https://nonprofits.fb.com/en-gb/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
