Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Telesto]

reversal will occur (which likely will overshoot again). However, it's

hard to predict the future. Those trends are really. So more in terms of
10-20 years from now. Or maybe it doesn't happen after all? Time will tell.

Didn't read every word, but interesting enough. Thanks.


My messages not intended to be thoroughly :P. It's more some unpolished 
thoughts coming to mind.



  And/so maybe in
the end it is a matter of philosophy and intention?

That's pretty good summary (why didn't I think of it myself ;- ).

--

You may advocate open source system, promote it. However please don’t 
make it a (flame) war/battle. Inf frame of allies and enemies. With good 
and bad believes.
Take any religious clash from history in attempt to ‘convert’ people. 
Never worked, will not work. And lots of causality's. And waste of 
resources. And it even pretty trivial. Why is it necessary that 
everybody in the whole world has the same believe.


However I hope there is some mutual understanding within the open 
source/closed source community (including users) about the importance 
and benefits of open standards. Open standard should obviously being 
kind setup like open source.


I could even think of .dll plugins response for writing the open 
standard (say ODT).  To prevent different interpretations or 
implementation mistakes. Obviously open source too.
Another option is that the homegrown export filter code belonging to 
closed source apps regarding open standard being open source; simply to 
check for implementation errors.


The latter will likely be more problematic as it probably gives insight 
in the internal design (and says something about coding quality). So 
model must be found. Maybe kind of system MS uses for getting peeks into 
their source code. So a kind of permission basis; without high bars.


The biggest risk is closed source using open source without 
contributing. Contributing can take different forms. In development 
time/expertise or say license payment. Else your able to commercialize a 
package of open source components and price it as if you developed 
everything yourself. Not paying the fair share. Or kind of free ride 
mentality and I would call it intellectual theft.


And everybody using open source projects for free is issue regarding 
continuity and sustainability. And only being mentioned in the credits, 
is a lovely symbolic gesture but ultimately everything we want money (or 
other stuff which can be quantified in money)


But that’s creates the dilemma. The open source makes really hard to 
enforce contributions of co-developers/ company’s making use of open 
source without contributing their fair share. Code is open in the 
public; with barely strings attached. It’s the power of open source, but 
also the Achilles heel.


Cheers,
Telesto


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Telesto]

Op 30-4-2021 om 23:04 schreef Drew Jensen:

Howdy,

I like that slogan.

Met me add another which I've used lately and kind of like:
"LibreOffice; Come for the software - Stay for the community!"

Interesting slogan proposal. If it resonates, no clue.

Personal history. I didn't have any interest in a community when looking 
LibreOffice up. I simply searched for free (as in free beer) Office 
Suite for my Mac.

My Mac was expensive enough.

I surely wouldn't have gotten in touch with the Community either. It's 
only because I got kind of frustrated by some bug.
Which didn't get by itself (waited maybe 6 months). And later on some 
e-mail from from - I think - Steve -_-


So really stumbled into being here. Having plenty of free time often 
enough and affinity with software (and to some extend bugs), I kept going.
And well at some point one of your report fixed :P. Which kind of 
addictive. Waiting for a bibisect taking ages, so you try to do it yourself.
Before you now you're around for 5 years or so. However not because I'm 
into a tight relationship with LibreOffice Community per se.


Nor having a some strong believe regarding to open source. Any software 
which fits my specifications will do. Free is obviously nicer compared 
paid.
And if it's paid it's all about price/quality ratio (and amount of use). 
Surely asked myself number of times should I simply buy a 
(non-LibreOffice based) Office Suite.
It's more that tolerance for bugs going up if it's free. I'm not an true 
user of LibreOffice (or any Office Suite) at all. Using LibreOffice more 
for fun bughunting sessions.


Cheers,
Telesto


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice get involved and donation infobars - how often to show them?

[Clocked Modular]

Dear friends,

The first thing, I think, what we need is an open source(O-S) public ethics
awareness.
Not only for our users but for all open-source users.

Free and open is not effortless. If all O-S users start to have the
perception that even the smallest monthly amount helps them to stay free.
That they are not powerless towards big-corp. if they together put their
energy in the goal of remaining free.
Only that way they will remain to be free.

Personally I have chosen to live an as environmental friendly live as
possible. My choice is to have a low as possible income because that is the
most environmental friendly. That is the reason for me to avoid 'big-corp'.
(I've been there).
Still I pay a small fee for all "free" software I use, because I do
understand software is not made from thin air. And I want to stay free.

For example:
If all Mozilla-Firefox users paid a few dollars a month to the Mozilla
foundation, Mozilla would not be dependent from Google.

So I think we first need a Free Software Foundation wide ethical
open-source users conduct. So every "Free" software can hook in to a
central code of conduct linked to a "Freedom is not effortless" campaign.

From that, I think, we need a stay-free logo/icon that can be used by all
O-S apps to link to the monthly contribution page.

By the way the other side of this is a public available annual financial
report by all who use the "Freedom is not effortless" trade-marks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
With kind regards,
Boudi van Vlijmen.

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Op wo 28 apr. 2021 om 16:33 schreef Telesto :

> Op 28-4-2021 om 11:50 schreef Mike Saunders:
> >> To be transparent of these info-bars, I would like it to appear
> >> somewhere on the official LibreOffice site where the frequency is shown
> >> and perhaps also the rationale for the frequency and a good explanation
> >> of what is meant as "Get Involved" and "Donate ..." (or linked to their
> >> appropriate pages). Make it clear as to where the money is being
> >> invested and to the German non-profit/charitable laws governing the use
> >> of the money ... do the German non-profit/charitable laws/rules force
> >> the project to spend all of the donation income within that fiscal year?
> > The https://www.libreoffice.org/donate/ page that we link to has an
> > infographic on the right showing what the money is being used for, and
> > some text underneath about the non-profit status. There's also a link to
> > "financials and budget", although it's further down the right-hand
> > column. We're working on a website redesign now, so maybe we can make
> > those more prominent on the donate page...
> Not to nag, but well I still struggle with the whole donation topic.
> As I personally perceive it as kind of misleading (easy to misconceive).
> In the sense that especially bugfixing (but maybe also features),
> being outside of the scope of TDF . Obviously infra, meetings,
> documentation and such is also important.
>
> However people do see  a relation between donation and bugfixing. Or to
> phrase it differently.
> Some say, I have donated, why is bug XYZ not gone. This obviously not
> how it works,
> but implies a relation between donation to bugfixing. And that's what I
> would expect to. But that's exactly how it not works.
> No money is flowing to development directly.  And actually can't flow,
> because of the non-profit status and rules attached.
> Donations maybe also thank you to developers who fixed something, while
> TDF being kind of unrelated.
>
> TDF needs funding to obviously. All the other stuff is also important.
> However the whole mystery around TDF and spending makes kind of public
> secret.
> You have to make study to actually know about the 'broken transfer
> system' regarding bugfixing
> You're actually doing more 'good' by buying LibreOffice from eco-system
> partners, IMHO.
>
> And yes, this is not marketing topic, but well marketing circling around
> the hairy area