Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 2/14/13 1:03 AM, C. Olofson wrote: > I can't speak to licensing terms but with respect to adoption of > anything other than MSO: in my (limited) experience with both companies > and non-profits, most resistance to moving away from MSO comes from the > workers who use MSO. Resistance to change from users is definitely the bigger barrier to migrations, and this is why a migration project should be more focused on breaking this barrier than selling any feature. I would say that the problem is 80% psycological and 20% technical. > That attitude, in my opinion, is the biggest barrier to LibO adoption; > even bigger than MS' fud machine. Microsoft is working at different levels: FUD on decision makers (with feature comparison, scaring statements on licenses, pressure and lobby, and so on) and lock in features on end users (the ribbon and C-Fonts are lock in features). Microsoft largest expense on Office is the communication budget, which is way bigger than the development budget. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 02/13/2013 07:03 PM, C. Olofson wrote: On 2/13/2013 3:55 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: On 02/13/2013 06:38 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 2/14/13 12:18 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: Interesting, if MS became aware that say few large city that currently use MSO were considering LO they might make FUD attacks on LO. I do not know exactly how the MS support agreements work (I would assume something like $x / person for a years with option to renew) but non renewal would be a very good indication someone is switching to something else. Only a few large MS Office users have support agreements, because they already spend a large amount of money on licenses, but Microsoft visits them at least twice a year to try to sell on top of licenses. They use every opportunity to provide competitive marketing materials, and the fact that several users do not want to speak about migrations is due to the fact that they would immediately receive the visit of Microsoft sales people, who - in some cases - would try to discredit the CIO with his management because of the choice to use free software. Microsoft is very effective, although they are losign grip with their market because of their attitude. What is a typical license term? Years ago I worked closely with my company's sales team. What I noticed it was better to sell your products "features and benefits" and say nothing about your competitors unless directly asked by the customer. Then be very careful what you say to avoid antagonizing the customer and be very factual. I worked with chemical equipment manufacturers and our customers where often chemical engineers. The long term problem with FUD tactics is it risks one's creditability by becoming a known liar. It may take awhile. I can't speak to licensing terms but with respect to adoption of anything other than MSO: in my (limited) experience with both companies and non-profits, most resistance to moving away from MSO comes from the workers who use MSO. It doesn't matter whether one has a better non-free app (Wordperfect), a better cloud solution (Google Apps) or whether one can articulate the beauty of free-as-in-free-speech: Change, for most end users, is to be avoided in the extreme. Most of the users I have seen in the corporate/academic world are not computer literate and fear any change. To compound matters they have no interest in becoming marginally literate. Try explaining how to import a csv file into a spreadsheet when the person fears Excel; lots of fun. That attitude, in my opinion, is the biggest barrier to LibO adoption; even bigger than MS' fud machine. I think the real issue is user attitudes are reinforced by FUD. Often you see people say you can not do something on the web unless you have Windows or a Mac but Linux usually works just as well but the FUD plays on user ignorance of how websites actually work. Once the spell is broken, then credibility is lost. fwiw, -Craig -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 2/13/2013 3:55 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: On 02/13/2013 06:38 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 2/14/13 12:18 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: Interesting, if MS became aware that say few large city that currently use MSO were considering LO they might make FUD attacks on LO. I do not know exactly how the MS support agreements work (I would assume something like $x / person for a years with option to renew) but non renewal would be a very good indication someone is switching to something else. Only a few large MS Office users have support agreements, because they already spend a large amount of money on licenses, but Microsoft visits them at least twice a year to try to sell on top of licenses. They use every opportunity to provide competitive marketing materials, and the fact that several users do not want to speak about migrations is due to the fact that they would immediately receive the visit of Microsoft sales people, who - in some cases - would try to discredit the CIO with his management because of the choice to use free software. Microsoft is very effective, although they are losign grip with their market because of their attitude. What is a typical license term? Years ago I worked closely with my company's sales team. What I noticed it was better to sell your products "features and benefits" and say nothing about your competitors unless directly asked by the customer. Then be very careful what you say to avoid antagonizing the customer and be very factual. I worked with chemical equipment manufacturers and our customers where often chemical engineers. The long term problem with FUD tactics is it risks one's creditability by becoming a known liar. It may take awhile. I can't speak to licensing terms but with respect to adoption of anything other than MSO: in my (limited) experience with both companies and non-profits, most resistance to moving away from MSO comes from the workers who use MSO. It doesn't matter whether one has a better non-free app (Wordperfect), a better cloud solution (Google Apps) or whether one can articulate the beauty of free-as-in-free-speech: Change, for most end users, is to be avoided in the extreme. That attitude, in my opinion, is the biggest barrier to LibO adoption; even bigger than MS' fud machine. fwiw, -Craig -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 02/13/2013 06:38 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 2/14/13 12:18 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: Interesting, if MS became aware that say few large city that currently use MSO were considering LO they might make FUD attacks on LO. I do not know exactly how the MS support agreements work (I would assume something like $x / person for a years with option to renew) but non renewal would be a very good indication someone is switching to something else. Only a few large MS Office users have support agreements, because they already spend a large amount of money on licenses, but Microsoft visits them at least twice a year to try to sell on top of licenses. They use every opportunity to provide competitive marketing materials, and the fact that several users do not want to speak about migrations is due to the fact that they would immediately receive the visit of Microsoft sales people, who - in some cases - would try to discredit the CIO with his management because of the choice to use free software. Microsoft is very effective, although they are losign grip with their market because of their attitude. What is a typical license term? Years ago I worked closely with my company's sales team. What I noticed it was better to sell your products "features and benefits" and say nothing about your competitors unless directly asked by the customer. Then be very careful what you say to avoid antagonizing the customer and be very factual. I worked with chemical equipment manufacturers and our customers where often chemical engineers. The long term problem with FUD tactics is it risks one's creditability by becoming a known liar. It may take awhile. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 2/14/13 12:18 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: > Interesting, if MS became aware that say few large city that currently > use MSO were considering LO they might make FUD attacks on LO. I do not > know exactly how the MS support agreements work (I would assume > something like $x / person for a years with option to renew) but non > renewal would be a very good indication someone is switching to > something else. Only a few large MS Office users have support agreements, because they already spend a large amount of money on licenses, but Microsoft visits them at least twice a year to try to sell on top of licenses. They use every opportunity to provide competitive marketing materials, and the fact that several users do not want to speak about migrations is due to the fact that they would immediately receive the visit of Microsoft sales people, who - in some cases - would try to discredit the CIO with his management because of the choice to use free software. Microsoft is very effective, although they are losign grip with their market because of their attitude. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 02/13/2013 05:39 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 2/12/13 4:19 PM, Jeff Fortin wrote: The big question on my mind remains: do we know of government bodies that are currently "looking into it" (migrating from Office/proprietary solutions) but have not yet made the move? Or do we typically only know about that once they've already started/made the switch? I try to guess percentages, based on my experience: we know in advance (20%), we know when they are starting to make the switch (20%), we know when they start to have the first problems (20%), we never know (40%). This is why it is very important to raise the awareness of support opportunities. Interesting, if MS became aware that say few large city that currently use MSO were considering LO they might make FUD attacks on LO. I do not know exactly how the MS support agreements work (I would assume something like $x / person for a years with option to renew) but non renewal would be a very good indication someone is switching to something else. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 2/12/13 4:19 PM, Jeff Fortin wrote: > The big question on my mind remains: do we know of government bodies > that are currently "looking into it" (migrating from Office/proprietary > solutions) but have not yet made the move? Or do we typically only know > about that once they've already started/made the switch? I try to guess percentages, based on my experience: we know in advance (20%), we know when they are starting to make the switch (20%), we know when they start to have the first problems (20%), we never know (40%). This is why it is very important to raise the awareness of support opportunities. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
Hello Karoly, On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:31:17 +0100 Károly Papp wrote: > On the other hand: do governments know about LO? About lifecycles? Is > there a "Enterprise-ready" LO with optional support? See our release plan on the wiki: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Release_Plan > > Does TDF has a (sub)site which describes how-to migrate? About the > pros and cons.. We are working on a certification programme including developers, migrators and trainers. See here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDFCertification Hope this helps, Charles. > > > 2013/2/12 Jeff Fortin > > > Le mardi 12 février 2013 à 17:05 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : > > > We have pretty much every case. Sometimes we learn about them > > > afterwards, sometimes we are contacted before.. It depends. Are > > > you looking for a case in particular? > > > > That's interesting. I'm not looking for one case in particular, but > > I'm looking to know where/how you get contacted, how do you know > > there is a need for government administration XYZ, etc. > > > > I'd like to find a way to be systematically proactive instead of > > reactive. In other words, do we have some way to find out which > > government bodies are "thinking about it"? > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > > marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: > > http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages > > sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-founder & Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:25:19 -0500 Jeff Fortin wrote: > Le mardi 12 février 2013 à 17:05 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : > > We have pretty much every case. Sometimes we learn about them > > afterwards, sometimes we are contacted before.. It depends. Are you > > looking for a case in particular? > > That's interesting. I'm not looking for one case in particular, but > I'm looking to know where/how you get contacted, how do you know > there is a need for government administration XYZ, etc. > > I'd like to find a way to be systematically proactive instead of > reactive. In other words, do we have some way to find out which > government bodies are "thinking about it"? > Yes, although it is by no means a scientific one: it's about having the right contacts and working with them on the long term. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-founder & Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On the other hand: do governments know about LO? About lifecycles? Is there a "Enterprise-ready" LO with optional support? Does TDF has a (sub)site which describes how-to migrate? About the pros and cons.. 2013/2/12 Jeff Fortin > Le mardi 12 février 2013 à 17:05 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : > > We have pretty much every case. Sometimes we learn about them > > afterwards, sometimes we are contacted before.. It depends. Are you > > looking for a case in particular? > > That's interesting. I'm not looking for one case in particular, but I'm > looking to know where/how you get contacted, how do you know there is a > need for government administration XYZ, etc. > > I'd like to find a way to be systematically proactive instead of > reactive. In other words, do we have some way to find out which > government bodies are "thinking about it"? > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
Le mardi 12 février 2013 à 17:05 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : > We have pretty much every case. Sometimes we learn about them > afterwards, sometimes we are contacted before.. It depends. Are you > looking for a case in particular? That's interesting. I'm not looking for one case in particular, but I'm looking to know where/how you get contacted, how do you know there is a need for government administration XYZ, etc. I'd like to find a way to be systematically proactive instead of reactive. In other words, do we have some way to find out which government bodies are "thinking about it"? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
Hello Jeff, Jeff Fortin a écrit : >Le vendredi 08 février 2013 à 19:44 +0100, Italo Vignoli a écrit : > >> If you look at announcements on TDF blog, since spring 2012 we have >> mentioned large migration projects quite regularly. >> >> In random order, we have Copenhagen Hospitals (25,000 desktops), >French >> Government (500,000 desktops), cities of Munich (15,000 desktops), >Las >> Palmas, Pilea Hortiatis, Limerick, and others, Regione Umbria (6,000 >> desktops), Provincia di Milano, Provincia di Cremona, and others. >> >> I do not remember them all, but mentions should be easy to find in >the >> posts. > > >Ah thanks. Somehow I had seen the "TDF in 2012" summary post but not >noticed the paragraph about deployments, my bad. I scoured the other >blog posts from the beginning of 2012 to 2013, and the only other >mention I saw so far was in the Conference Announcements of October 17, >2012... I'll at least update wikipedia with that. > >The big question on my mind remains: do we know of government bodies >that are currently "looking into it" (migrating from Office/proprietary >solutions) but have not yet made the move? Or do we typically only know >about that once they've already started/made the switch? > We have pretty much every case. Sometimes we learn about them afterwards, sometimes we are contacted before.. It depends. Are you looking for a case in particular? Best, Charles. > >-- >Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to >marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted -- Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
Le vendredi 08 février 2013 à 19:44 +0100, Italo Vignoli a écrit : > If you look at announcements on TDF blog, since spring 2012 we have > mentioned large migration projects quite regularly. > > In random order, we have Copenhagen Hospitals (25,000 desktops), French > Government (500,000 desktops), cities of Munich (15,000 desktops), Las > Palmas, Pilea Hortiatis, Limerick, and others, Regione Umbria (6,000 > desktops), Provincia di Milano, Provincia di Cremona, and others. > > I do not remember them all, but mentions should be easy to find in the > posts. Ah thanks. Somehow I had seen the "TDF in 2012" summary post but not noticed the paragraph about deployments, my bad. I scoured the other blog posts from the beginning of 2012 to 2013, and the only other mention I saw so far was in the Conference Announcements of October 17, 2012... I'll at least update wikipedia with that. The big question on my mind remains: do we know of government bodies that are currently "looking into it" (migrating from Office/proprietary solutions) but have not yet made the move? Or do we typically only know about that once they've already started/made the switch? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
On 2/8/13 5:00 PM, Jeff Fortin wrote: > So, do you folks have insights on the questions above? > (and if so, we should probably centralize this knowledge on a wiki page. > Alternatively, I could update Wikipedia with relevant links you may > suggest) If you look at announcements on TDF blog, since spring 2012 we have mentioned large migration projects quite regularly. In random order, we have Copenhagen Hospitals (25,000 desktops), French Government (500,000 desktops), cities of Munich (15,000 desktops), Las Palmas, Pilea Hortiatis, Limerick, and others, Regione Umbria (6,000 desktops), Provincia di Milano, Provincia di Cremona, and others. I do not remember them all, but mentions should be easy to find in the posts. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Enterprise adoption of LibreOffice
Hi folks! With the excitement around the release of LibreOffice 4, I was curious to know about past and future "enterprise" deployments of LibreOffice, or, more broadly speaking, the market demand for a free and open source office suite. I'm looking for the answer to these questions: - Which government institutions are deploying LOo or planning to do so? - In the private sector, which companies are publicly known to use LOo? Ideally we should at least have some ballpark economic figures to go along with those. So far, I didn't see anything related to that in https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing or https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Deployment_and_Migration Although I'm a huge fan of LibreOffice, I'm also curious to know - to the extent of what is known - about the same data regarding OpenOffice (given how entrenched it has been as a trademark in the last decade or so). Marketing-wise, we can't afford to underestimate the power of that brand, although we are slowly eroding it. Thus, if we can, we should also document OpenOffice's recent marketing successes in comparison to ours. Wikipedia has pretty much nothing except the French giving out USB keys of LOo. The only other mention I could find is one obscure sentence in http://www.h-online.com/open/features/LibreOffice-a-dive-into-the-unknown-1355159.html saying that it has been deployed for a "hospital workforce of 25,000 in Denmark". In contrast, the story around OpenOffice is more complete and impressive to the unsuspecting reader: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openoffice#Market_penetration So, do you folks have insights on the questions above? (and if so, we should probably centralize this knowledge on a wiki page. Alternatively, I could update Wikipedia with relevant links you may suggest) Best regards, Jean-François -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
