Re: Moduleset Reorganization -- Take two
pplication > featured are always welcome to mail the marketing-list to bring > something new to our attention. > > Marketing Team, now more than ever, could use volunteers and is always > open to additional members. If you’re interested in joining the > Marketing Team, hop on IRC and join #marketing and join the mailing > list; we’d love the help. Thanks, may I suggest that gnome-i18n members (or a person delegated by them) could take part in the decission process then? That would possibly make the situation clearer, more transparent to the GNOME translation community, and, needless to say, for the benefit of the GNOME international end-users. CC'ing the gnome-i18n mailing list, since it's on-topic there as well. Thanks again, Petr Kovar -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Editing new website
Hi! Paul Cutler , Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:26:05 -0600: > On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 16:14 +0100, Milo Casagrande wrote: > > Hi, > > > > 2010/2/12 Lucas Rocha : > > > Hi all, > > > > > > So, here are instructions to edit content in > > > http://website-editors.gnome.org. > > > > I'm replying to this message, since I don't know exactly where to ask > > what I'm going to ask. > > > > What about i18n/l10n of the website? (I'm CCing gnome-i18n list) > > Can translators have access to the website to translate the content or > > will it be done via a normal PO file? > > > > I see there's a little "Also available in" section with different > > languages. > > > > Ciao. > > > > Ni Milo, > > It will be available via regular PO files. I'm not sure what the status > is, as I think a hook had to be written, but that was the orgiinal plan. First off, this is undoubtedly a great design improvement when compared to the present state. From a quick look however, I think the language selection should be positioned in a more prominent place on the website. I somehow doubt that user will search for it at the bottom of the page. OK, that's my ten hellers anyway. :-) Regards, Petr Kovar -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Cultural Issue with the Foot Logo
"Theppitak Karoonboonyanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sun, 2 Nov 2008 02:10:32 +0700: > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Petr Kovar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Theppitak Karoonboonyanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sat, 1 Nov 2008 > > 14:00:06 +0700: > > > >> Let me add another difference between the direct logo localization > >> and the icon theming methods. > >> > >> Many Thai users don't like to use Thai translation. This is a popular > >> taste, despite how much translation effort and quality assurance has > >> been done. And that's why I put lower priority on translation than > >> infrastructure development. (I joined the team after having done enough > >> progress on GTK+, Pango, etc.) > >> > >> And by this practice, the logo localization will have limited effect, > >> while theming still allows Thai people who choose English locale to > >> change the logo. > >> > >> In summary, I'd propose icon theming + GNOME recognition of the > >> secondary logo. > > > > Let me ask you, those Thai people with such a non-Thai-locale taste > > likely have a better understanding of English or Western culture, > > right? (At least that's what I suppose.) So the foot logo shouldn't be > > a big problem for them then? Please correct me if I'm wrong here. > > Nope.The taste is popular just because software are badly translated > in general. And people feel more happy with original English terms > than guessing the translators' whim on choosing inconsistent > translated terms. Many are full with typos or misinterpretations, for > example. Kind of bad impression. And that habit is not changed when > they use GNOME, despite our heavy QA. > > There is nothing to do with English skill nor familiarity with Western > cultures. Sorry, but I can't understand this. In my way of thinking, one has to have rather good English skills in order to use (American) English locale. And I'm pretty sure that good English skills necessarily come with some level of familiarity with Western culture. Best, Petr Kovar -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Cultural Issue with the Foot Logo
"Theppitak Karoonboonyanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:00:06 +0700: (...) > Let me add another difference between the direct logo localization > and the icon theming methods. > > Many Thai users don't like to use Thai translation. This is a popular > taste, despite how much translation effort and quality assurance has > been done. And that's why I put lower priority on translation than > infrastructure development. (I joined the team after having done enough > progress on GTK+, Pango, etc.) > > And by this practice, the logo localization will have limited effect, > while theming still allows Thai people who choose English locale to change > the logo. > > In summary, I'd propose icon theming + GNOME recognition of the > secondary logo. Let me ask you, those Thai people with such a non-Thai-locale taste likely have a better understanding of English or Western culture, right? (At least that's what I suppose.) So the foot logo shouldn't be a big problem for them then? Please correct me if I'm wrong here. Best, Petr Kovar -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: www.gnome.org
Hi! Calum Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:15:07 +: (...) > Very true. Unfortunately, of course, its easier to 'hide' poor > quality code, than to hide poor quality translations. > > If something on the user's screen is badly- or wrongly-translated, or > a translation is missing altogether, the user will notice almost > immediately, and the perceived quality of the software is instantly > reduced. > > On the other hand, if the software runs 10% slower than it could > because it's poorly written, or leaks some memory every now and again, > most users probably won't even notice. I agree, only that equivalent of a (say, really) bad or wrong translation is rather a program crash, loss of data, security issue, and so on, than some memory leaking or a poor program performance. In other words, an issue preventing a user from adequately making use of the program. There can be also found non-critical issues in software l10n such as an unsatisfactory stylistic revision of the text, slightly bad wording, small typo, etc. Users may notice these issues, but in most cases, I assume, they don't mind much (especially when the text is not very exposed). Best, Petr Kovar -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: www.gnome.org
Thilo Pfennig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:33:08 +0100: > Petr Kovar schrieb: > > Otherwise, it seems to be quite controversial and, may I say, > > disrespectful towards translators, whose work, in my humble > > translator's opinion, is as good and as bad as any other contributions. > > > Its obvious. Professional translation is a very complex task. The same way as is the professional software development. > You can > not expect a high quality from volunteers who often do not have any > training and are often developers who also do translations. In relation > to code I guess its often the case that programers aho work on GNOME are > professional programmers - not all - but many. How many of them are "professionals", actually? 50 %? 25%? 75 %? And what can you expect from the rest? A poor quality code? So is, say, 50 % of the code of poor quality because it was produced by volunteers? > The argument that I made > was made in a specific context - that it would be desirable to have the > whole site translated. The question I rose was in fact if it is better > to have a good original english page or rather a not so good > translation. And what about having a good original English page, and an excellent translation? A possibility you didn't mention somehow. Try to trust the GNOME l10n work a little bit more, please. > So I did not start a thread to disrespect translators. In Maybe you didn't intend so, but your generalization is actually strongly disrespectful. > Moin wiki not all help pages are translated because the translations > often do not take up the changes fast enough. So generally there is a > translation - but the goal is rather to have a good documentation as one > that is outdated, wrong and often of lower quality. How can you say the > quality is high? You ask me how? Well, I'm part of the process and I see what I see, that is committed volunteers and also professional translators (surprise!) working thoroughly on l10n, using various types of linguistic tools and having a complex and professional-like team work flow at the same time. So their translation outputs may not be always of professional quality, but hey, you can't say there's no possibility it may be so. That's my point here. > I guess you cant prove the opposit either. For what it's worth, you should know that I don't have to. ;-) > So better > what makes you think the quality can be high? See above. > I am sure people who > translate are motivated and do their best - and it often helps greatly, > especially on user interfaces and documentation. I did this myself for > the german epiphany manual. But I know my shortcomings as well as I see > those of other german translators. It does not matter if I say it or if > I do not. Everybody can see it. I don't think so, really. I'm afraid you don't have the necessary insight here (I can't speak for the German translation team, but... you didn't speak about the German one only in your original statement, anyway). Or maybe there's this indefensible generalization of yours just because you want to move the website things the way you want at any cost, with or without the translations. But let me tell you that you picked the wrong part on this one. Best, Petr Kovar PS to others: sorry for being slightly off-topic. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: www.gnome.org
Hi! Thilo Pfennig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:52:20 +0100: > Murray Cumming schrieb: > > I think having 5 pages translated, and kept up to date, would be > > wonderful. However, I think the entire site would be translated in many > > languages if we made it possible. The GNOME translation team are > > amazing. They seem to love translating applications, release notes, > > documentation, anything that we even vaguely make available for > > translation. > > Although the quality is not very high - and sometimes I think its better > to have good content in its original language than a bad or outdated > translation. What I try to say is that its not always good to translate. > I was very disappointed of the german translation of the 2.24 release > notes for example. Your statement regarding the translation quality is quite strong considering it's a pure generalization and nothing more. I wonder whether you base the quality-of-GNOME-translations argument on one of the German translation outputs (the only one you provided, and that you consider to be of substantial significance in relation to other translation [teams'] work), or whether you really have any other arguments to set forth, and thus prove your position. Otherwise, it seems to be quite controversial and, may I say, disrespectful towards translators, whose work, in my humble translator's opinion, is as good and as bad as any other contributions. That being said, and as far as I know, one aim of GNOME is to provide experience of a fully localized environment. And the main GNOME website should be part of it. Regards, Petr Kovar -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
