Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y

[Piñeiro]

On 02/24/2012 05:21 PM, Dave Neary wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 02/22/2012 07:36 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
>> When dealing with the press there is always a bit of a risk especially
>> if you're trying to manipulate them :)
>
> You know this is a publicly archived mailing list, yes? :) Several
> members of the press are members of this list too, you know...
>> Create a rebuttal article to the Linux.com article which bemoans the
>> lack of good a11y.   By stating in fact that we are in fact have great
>> a11y support thanks to the efforts of the GNOME foundation and
>> contributors.
>
> Having read Carla's article, I can't find fault with a single thing
> she says. Juanjo said the exact same thing in this thread. GNOME 3 has
> regressed some from GNOME 2 with the deprecation of Bonobo and Orca
> didn't work well with GNOME 3.0 at all.

I agree. The only fault, if we can call that, is that she focus on the
past, but she didn't mention at all improvements since GNOME 3.0,
current status and future plans. Something like answer the question "Do
we have an action plan to get back to where we were before?" that you
made in this thread. So I think that it is worth to write a continuation
of her mail (what Juanjo is doing right now). Something that Joanmarie
already made somehow as a comment to her article.

>
> So - what exactly is there to rebut? Let's celebrate successes instead
> of trying tactics to gain notoriety (and, since she's exactly right,
> you end up risking a "GNOME 3 not accessible" article coming right
> back at you that you could spend years trying to overcome).
>

I agree.

BR


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Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y

[Dave Neary]

Hi,

On 02/22/2012 07:36 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:

When dealing with the press there is always a bit of a risk especially
if you're trying to manipulate them :)


You know this is a publicly archived mailing list, yes? :) Several 
members of the press are members of this list too, you know...

Create a rebuttal article to the Linux.com article which bemoans the
lack of good a11y.   By stating in fact that we are in fact have great
a11y support thanks to the efforts of the GNOME foundation and
contributors.


Having read Carla's article, I can't find fault with a single thing she 
says. Juanjo said the exact same thing in this thread. GNOME 3 has 
regressed some from GNOME 2 with the deprecation of Bonobo and Orca 
didn't work well with GNOME 3.0 at all.


So - what exactly is there to rebut? Let's celebrate successes instead 
of trying tactics to gain notoriety (and, since she's exactly right, you 
end up risking a "GNOME 3 not accessible" article coming right back at 
you that you could spend years trying to overcome).


Cheers,
Dave.

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Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y

[Piñeiro]

Hi all, using this mail to answer everybody.

On 02/22/2012 11:59 PM, Juanjo Marín wrote:
>
>
>
> - Mensaje original -
>> De: Dave Neary 
>> Para: marketing-list@gnome.org
>> CC: 
>> Enviado: Miércoles 22 de febrero de 2012 21:56
>> Asunto: Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y
>>
>> Hi Sri,
>>
>> It's a risky strategy - from what I can tell our accessibility story has 
>> regressed since 2.32. Do we have an action plan to get back to where we 
>> were before? I have been getting the impression that accessibility 
>> wasn't a top priority for some of the teams driving GNOME 3.

I agree that this is a risky strategy, but not only due the regressions
that we had. As far as I understood the original mail, the idea is
create some kind of noise based on create a controversy. This conclusion
based on this comment from Sri "But more importantly, to try to attract
third party media who love these kind of controversies". If I need to
say something, and this create a controversy, it is just a collateral
effect. But I don't like the idea of create controversies just for the
sake of create a controversy.


>>
>> If we really do have a good accessibility story, and legitimate gripes 
>> with the linux.com story, then it sounds like it's worth a shot.
>>
> Hi !
>
> The transition to GNOME 3.0 was at the same time that Oracle adquired
> Sun and dismatled the Accessibility Program Office that was one of the 
> main contributors to GNOME a11y so far.
>
> The GNOME a11y team has been reorganizing and new members have 
> landed in the team to tackle the daunting transition to GNOME 3, specially 
> because a11y relayed in bonobo that was going to be dropped in GNOME 
> 3 and it had to be re-written using D-bus, not to mention the other details
> to be migrated.
>
> GNOME 3.2 is the first release of the the GNOME 3 series that can be 
> stated as accessible, though it has some glitches. GNOME 3.4 looks
> very promising.
>
> So there was a regression, but we are in general terms close to the
> same level again (orca seems more performant than ever in the current 
> development cycle, gnome magnification works great now with new 
> features around the corner, the on-screen keyboard it's built using a 
> promising Caribou tech with a11y features , etc... and other 
> applications like dots needs some work to be working again or 
> gnome-voice was dropped).
>
> Also, GNOME a11y technologies are being used in other free desktops,
> like Xfce, Unity and KDE. So I think GNOME has an important leading 
> role in terms of accessibility.
>
> However, the resources in accessibility are less than in the past, and we
> need more resources to keep the pace for adding new features and 
> maintaining what we have.

This is a good summary. Thanks.

BR

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Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y

[Juanjo Marín]

- Mensaje original -
> De: Dave Neary 
> Para: marketing-list@gnome.org
> CC: 
> Enviado: Miércoles 22 de febrero de 2012 21:56
> Asunto: Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y
> 
> Hi Sri,
> 
> It's a risky strategy - from what I can tell our accessibility story has 
> regressed since 2.32. Do we have an action plan to get back to where we 
> were before? I have been getting the impression that accessibility 
> wasn't a top priority for some of the teams driving GNOME 3.
> 
> If we really do have a good accessibility story, and legitimate gripes 
> with the linux.com story, then it sounds like it's worth a shot.
> 
Hi !

The transition to GNOME 3.0 was at the same time that Oracle adquired
Sun and dismatled the Accessibility Program Office that was one of the 
main contributors to GNOME a11y so far.

The GNOME a11y team has been reorganizing and new members have 
landed in the team to tackle the daunting transition to GNOME 3, specially 
because a11y relayed in bonobo that was going to be dropped in GNOME 
3 and it had to be re-written using D-bus, not to mention the other details
to be migrated.

GNOME 3.2 is the first release of the the GNOME 3 series that can be 
stated as accessible, though it has some glitches. GNOME 3.4 looks
very promising.

So there was a regression, but we are in general terms close to the
same level again (orca seems more performant than ever in the current 
development cycle, gnome magnification works great now with new 
features around the corner, the on-screen keyboard it's built using a 
promising Caribou tech with a11y features , etc... and other 
applications like dots needs some work to be working again or 
gnome-voice was dropped).

Also, GNOME a11y technologies are being used in other free desktops,
like Xfce, Unity and KDE. So I think GNOME has an important leading 
role in terms of accessibility.

However, the resources in accessibility are less than in the past, and we
need more resources to keep the pace for adding new features and 
maintaining what we have.

Cheers,

    -- Juanjo Marin
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Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y

[Sriram Ramkrishna]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Dave Neary  wrote:

> Hi Sri,
>
> It's a risky strategy - from what I can tell our accessibility story has
> regressed since 2.32. Do we have an action plan to get back to where we
> were before? I have been getting the impression that accessibility wasn't a
> top priority for some of the teams driving GNOME 3.
>

OK, that's good to know.  I'm not sure how much it has regressed, but
hopefully someone can chime in on it.


>
> If we really do have a good accessibility story, and legitimate gripes
> with the linux.com story, then it sounds like it's worth a shot.
>
>
Well, the other angle is that yes it has regressed, but we need people to
help or help us fund it.  So, I'm hoping that it translates to some
investments in FoG.

sri

> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
>
> On 02/22/2012 07:36 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
>
>> I sent this to Karen, and I would like to get a wider feedback on this
>> course of action.
>>
>> When dealing with the press there is always a bit of a risk especially
>> if you're trying to manipulate them :)
>>
>> sri
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: *Sriram Ramkrishna* mailto:s...@ramkrishna.me>>
>> Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:49 PM
>> Subject: Idea on linux.com  article on a11y
>> To: Karen Sandler mailto:ka...@gnome.org>>
>> Cc: Juanjo Marín mailto:juanjomari...@yahoo.es**
>> >>
>>
>>
>> I was talking with Juanjo today and came up with an idea.  I'm wondering
>> if this is something you would support:
>>
>> Create a rebuttal article to the Linux.com article which bemoans the
>> lack of good a11y.  By stating in fact that we are in fact have great
>> a11y support thanks to the efforts of the GNOME foundation and
>> contributors.  We can either make it another Linux.com article or we
>> could generate our own news.gnome.org  or
>>
>> something.  The idea is to create a conversation of viewpoints.  But
>> more importantly, to try to attract third party media who love these
>> kind of controversies.  We get several benefits, linux.com
>> 's gets a higher media exposure and as well we do.  We
>>
>> would hopefully create an effect of having media focus on a11y
>> technologies in Linux or maybe in general.
>>
>> Basically, create a meme with some media manipulation.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> sri
>>
>>
> --
> Dave Neary
> GNOME Foundation member
> dne...@gnome.org
> Jabber: nea...@gmail.com
> --
> marketing-list mailing list
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>
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Re: Fwd: Idea on linux.com article on a11y

[Dave Neary]

Hi Sri,

It's a risky strategy - from what I can tell our accessibility story has 
regressed since 2.32. Do we have an action plan to get back to where we 
were before? I have been getting the impression that accessibility 
wasn't a top priority for some of the teams driving GNOME 3.


If we really do have a good accessibility story, and legitimate gripes 
with the linux.com story, then it sounds like it's worth a shot.


Cheers,
Dave.

On 02/22/2012 07:36 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:

I sent this to Karen, and I would like to get a wider feedback on this
course of action.

When dealing with the press there is always a bit of a risk especially
if you're trying to manipulate them :)

sri


-- Forwarded message --
From: *Sriram Ramkrishna* mailto:s...@ramkrishna.me>>
Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:49 PM
Subject: Idea on linux.com  article on a11y
To: Karen Sandler mailto:ka...@gnome.org>>
Cc: Juanjo Marín mailto:juanjomari...@yahoo.es>>


I was talking with Juanjo today and came up with an idea.  I'm wondering
if this is something you would support:

Create a rebuttal article to the Linux.com article which bemoans the
lack of good a11y.  By stating in fact that we are in fact have great
a11y support thanks to the efforts of the GNOME foundation and
contributors.  We can either make it another Linux.com article or we
could generate our own news.gnome.org  or
something.  The idea is to create a conversation of viewpoints.  But
more importantly, to try to attract third party media who love these
kind of controversies.  We get several benefits, linux.com
's gets a higher media exposure and as well we do.  We
would hopefully create an effect of having media focus on a11y
technologies in Linux or maybe in general.

Basically, create a meme with some media manipulation.

What do you think?

sri



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