Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[Rajesh Roy]

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Here's to democratic struggles of Marxists in every country to remove their 
respective governments.. especially the Marxists in the USA..



From: Louis Proyect 
To: rajeshcher...@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2011 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

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In your intellectual universe, there is only imperialism and governments that 
imperialism would like to remove. The fact that Marxists in Iran would like to 
remove that government for its own reasons has not penetrated that universe.




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[Marxism] How goodly are thy tents- really ?

[Gary MacLennan]

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Avnery's piece on the Israeli protests is a good read.  I loved the biblical
bits- very elegant way of arguing in a region saturated in religion. However
I have also read Richard Seymour's rather more sober assessment at Lenin's
Tomb. The Israeli working class will inevitably come up against the
contradiction that they are a white colonial settler outpost with a unique
ideology which insists they have come home. So unless they denounce Zionism
and all its works and pomp, their protest is doomed to end with the bang of
more war rather than the construction of a society based on social justice.

There are interesting parallels with my native Ulster.  There the Protestant
working class almost united with the Catholics during the Great Depression,
but the government successfully played the sectarian card and re-opened
divisions between the Protestants and the Catholics.

Still my heart leaps up when I behold a protest. I am also intrigued and not
a little amused by the seeming phenomenon, that the Israeli state cannot
resort to violence against the protesters so readily.  They are after all
the chosen ones of God. Compare the reaction of authorities in Chile with
those in Israel and we can see the difference.  All the more reason why the
Israeli ruling class will have to resort to a war to discipline the workers.

comradely

Gary

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[Marxism] Excellent talk on Colombia & Ricardo Palmera

[jay rothermel]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhjKVbOsvn4&feature=uploademail

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Re: [Marxism] Democracy DP Style

[mark harris]

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That's 'Democratic' with a capital D, which has little to do with the
concept of small d democracy. It is not particularly surprising.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Kenneth Morgan wrote:

> ==
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>
>
> In the last couple of days I was expelled from 2 liberal discussion sites,
> "Democratic Underground" and "Daily Kos" for making comments critical of
> Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and the Dems. Is this par for the course for
> these types of discussion lists?
> 
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-- 
Mark Harris
Talisay City, Cebu, Philippines

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Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Commies

[Gary MacLennan]

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 Intense Red asked:

> Or, could it be that the Chinese, having exploited their own population
> for decades for economic development and now with about $2 *trillion* of
> junk US treasury bonds, are concerned that that money is now at risk?
>
> My Comment: Hi I.R. Yes of course they are getting worried about "their"
> money. They are suffering the same fate of the Japanese.  The Americans are
> deliberatedly devaluing the dollar to ease repayments on their debt. The
> Chinese are locked into supporting the American economy and are bitter about
> the price they are having to pay for that.
>

 I.R. asked

>   Could it be that China is getting sick of soaking money into subsidizing
> the imperialism of fat Americans and in flat-out financing US wars,
> torture,
> and militarism?
>
> My comment: I wish that were true. There is every sign that the rulers of
> the world and that includes the CCP want American to guarantee the status
> quo through their militarism.


 I. R. concluded

And as nationalists, the CCP could care less about US social programs,
they just want their *trillions* secure so that someday China could use that
money as China sees fit. I'm sure being able to wag a finger at the
sanctimonious US gov't was only an added bonus.
My comment: Well the key word is "nationalists". You are right of course,
but once upon a time the second C in CCP stood for "Communism" - not
Capitalism. It is because of the betrayal, that they invoke in me a special
disgust. But that is my Irishness. We loathe traitors more than the enemy.

comradely

Gary
-

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[Marxism] Democracy DP Style

[Kenneth Morgan]

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In the last couple of days I was expelled from 2 liberal discussion sites,
"Democratic Underground" and "Daily Kos" for making comments critical of
Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and the Dems. Is this par for the course for
these types of discussion lists?

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Re: [Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook

[Mark Lause]

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Jay, what I wrote didn't compare you to P.T. Barnum.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Commies

[Intense Red]

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 > What can one say?  They mention military spending not because they
 > sympathize with the victims of American Imperialism but because American
 > military might  is a constraint on their own power. To couple that with
 > a call for a cut in welfare is simply shameful.

   Or, could it be that the Chinese, having exploited their own population 
for decades for economic development and now with about $2 *trillion* of 
junk US treasury bonds, are concerned that that money is now at risk?

   Could it be that China is getting sick of soaking money into subsidizing 
the imperialism of fat Americans and in flat-out financing US wars, torture, 
and militarism?

   The kabuki theater of the debt crisis -- for example how the actual 
"default day" was jury rigged months outward -- must have been a spectacle 
to behold from the Chinese perspective. Them wanting the US to act 
responsibly with the money they're pouring into the US is hardly surprising.

   And as nationalists, the CCP could care less about US social programs, 
they just want their *trillions* secure so that someday China could use that 
money as China sees fit. I'm sure being able to wag a finger at the 
sanctimonious US gov't was only an added bonus.

-- 
"Whilst in ordinary life every shopkeeper is very well able to distinguish 
between what somebody professes to be and what he really is, our historians 
have not yet won even this trivial insight. They take every epoch at its 
word and believe that everything it says and imagines about itself is true." 
-- Karl Marx.



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[Marxism] US softens Arctic drilling stance as Shell gets nod

[Stuart Munckton]

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You can't get much madder than this.


Royal Dutch Shell has won conditional approval from the US interior
department to begin drilling exploratory wells in the Arctic Ocean next year
in a sign that the Obama administration is easing a clampdown on offshore
oil drilling imposed after last year's accident in the Gulf of Mexico.


The move confirms a willingness by President Barack Obama to approve
expanded domestic oil and gas exploration in response to high petrol prices
and continuing high levels of unemployment.

Shell was also granted a permit for a floating drill rig for a
1200-metre-deep well on Thursday, which will see all five of its rigs in the
gulf back in operation.


http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/us-softens-stance-on-arctic-ocean-drilling-as-shell-gets-the-nod-20110805-1if9o.html

-- 
“Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s
original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made,
through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man
Under Socialism

“The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of
dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker

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Re: [Marxism] Tea Party Commies

[Gary MacLennan]

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It gets worse, Shane.  This from the Irish Times:


"China, the largest creditor of the world's sole superpower, has every right
now to demand the US address its structural debt problems and ensure the
safety of China's dollar assets," it said.

It urged the United States to cut military and social welfare expenditure.



What can one say?  They mention military spending not because they
sympathize with the victims of American Imperialism but because American
military might  is a constraint on their own power. To couple that with a
call for a cut in welfare is simply shameful.  But then the concept of shame
long ago vanished from the thinking of the CCP.



comradely

Gary

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Re: [Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook

[jay rothermel]

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I really did not expect to step on anyone's toes by posting my notes.
I thought I might be criticized for ego, but being compared to P.T. Barnum
was unexpected.

In future, if anyone wants to peruse the contents of my notes, feel free to
do so at my blog,
http://marxistupdate.blogspot.com/

Mark, if you don't think anyone in our movement is saying there was a "cave"
to the Republicans, read this, if you have not already:
http://www.workers.org/2011/us/dems_cave_to_right_0811/

The SEP website has a lot of useful material, like this article on Douglas
Sirk:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/sff6-a04.shtml

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[Marxism] Protektor

[Louis Proyect]

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When I got the first press notice for “Protektor”, a Czech film about a 
Christian husband and his Jewish wife trying to survive under Nazi 
occupation, my first reaction was to pass it by. Although I didn’t think 
much about it at the time, my hesitations no doubt reflected my distaste 
for the typical “inspirational” melodrama like “Schindler’s List” as 
well as how Zionism has appropriated this narrative to its own sordid aims.


After seeing “Protektor”, I can say that you are in store for some 
completely groundbreaking cinema at Lincoln Plaza or Brooklyn Heights 
Cinema where it opened yesterday. Director/Screenwriter Marek Najbrt has 
not sought out heroic figures but flawed human beings instantly 
recognizable as the kind who would be seated alongside you in the 
theater or at the next desk at work. You cannot help but wondering as 
you watch the drama unfold how you would have behaved in similar 
circumstances.


full: http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/protektor/


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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

[Manuel Barrera]

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:) relax ese, i's just a word . . .  Like you said, you sure don't know me.  
But, oh yeah, having a Mexican wife an' livin' on the border that really "brung 
it", huh?¡mas machote que la chingada! (yeah, another "Zootsuitismo", get over 
it)
Or, as so many of "us" on the border might say today, "Really? PuhLease . . ." 
Manuel
 

 > Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 13:39:40 -0500
> From: ecto...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
> 
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
> 
> 
> I'll be brief, LP. I promise.
> For clarification.
> I was born and raised in Ciudad Victoria, MX.
> Raised along the Mexico-Texas side of the border on both sides.
> I went to school in Mexico AND in Texas.
> I have lived in this region all my 41 years of life.
> I have family in Mexico. And I have family here.
> My wife from San  Luis Potosi, SLP.  She speaks mostly in Spanish.
> My mother, who lives close to me, has always only spoken Spanish.Never a
> word of Spanish.
> Please, Manuel, you don't know me. And I sure as hell do  NOT know you. So.
> DO NOT assume you KNOW me or the environment I live in.
> 
> "if you'll lay off trying to be more Mexican than the Mexicans"
> 
> So if you understand that, please lay off the Edward G. Olmo's speech from
> Zoot Suit.
> 
> 'Ta bueno?
> 
> Erik
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Responding to UNSC resolution on Syria, Cuba FM restates bottom line: No intervention

[Louis Proyect]

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On 9/6/11 11:48 AM, Fred Feldman wrote:

GRANMA  INTERNATIONAL

In opposing the steadily increasing US-NATO intervention in Libya and Syria
(most recently the Security Council vote on Syria abn the turning of the
Libyan DC embassy to the onetime rebels --an act of plunder),  I  consider
the protests in Syria for more democratic rights and/or a more democratic
government, and the violence fundamentally the consequence of the
government’s intolerance of serious dissent.


Cuba lacks the moral capital to challenge the UN and NATO effectively in 
Syria given its obvious support for the government's crackdown. This is 
the kind of thing you can read on Prensa Latina, the same Baathist 
hand-outs that are recycled on MRZine on daily basis:


http://www.plenglish.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=311906&Itemid=1

Armed Men Set Syrian Justice Palace on Fire

Damascus, Aug 2 (Prensa Latina) Unidentified armed men set on fire 
facilities of the Palace of Justice in the city of Hama (in central 
Syria), revealed official sources, who said that President Bashar al 
Assad visited the wounded.


The president "praised the sacrifice of the military, who were wounded 
by armed men" during anti-government demonstrations in several cities, 
said SANA news agency.


Hundreds of masked armed men riding motorcycles attacked the Palace of 
Justice and set several offices on fire, added the source, quoting 
witnesses. SANA also cited a similar attack against a fruit and 
vegetable store in Baas district, also in Hama.


This is the second occasion in two days that President Bashar al Assad 
has praised his country's Army, which celebrated its 66th anniversary 
yesterday, and is the major force in facing opposition groups described 
by the authorities as terrorists.



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Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[Louis Proyect]

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On 8/6/11 1:13 PM, Michael Smith wrote:

But again: what exactly does this 'support' mean? A willingness
to express hopes for their success, on a Marxist mailing list?


Partly. The Internet is a powerful medium. There are numerous Iranians 
on this mailing list. What would have been the effect on them if the 
highest-profile Marxism mailing list on the Internet was cheering on the 
suppression of the democratic struggle? This mailing list exists to 
connect Marxists worldwide, even if it fails to repeat the formulas of 
the Cuban or Venezuelan foreign ministry.




One might add that the vague phrase 'democratic struggles' begs a
number of questions. Doubtless there are plenty of honest
salt-of-the-earth people in Iran and Syria and Libya who are fed
up with their governments, for sensible reasons that are easy
enough to understand. But certainly in Libya there's plenty
of imperial involvement too. The Empire has been trying to roll
back the Iranian revolution ever since it happened, and surely
Israel and the US would prefer a more compliant regime in Syria
-- though I don't get invited to the meetings where
imperial strategy is worked out, admittedly.


In your intellectual universe, there is only imperialism and governments 
that imperialism would like to remove. The fact that Marxists in Iran 
would like to remove that government for its own reasons has not 
penetrated that universe.





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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

[Erik Toren]

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I'll be brief, LP. I promise.
For clarification.
I was born and raised in Ciudad Victoria, MX.
Raised along the Mexico-Texas side of the border on both sides.
I went to school in Mexico AND in Texas.
I have lived in this region all my 41 years of life.
I have family in Mexico. And I have family here.
My wife from San  Luis Potosi, SLP.  She speaks mostly in Spanish.
My mother, who lives close to me, has always only spoken Spanish.Never a
word of Spanish.
Please, Manuel, you don't know me. And I sure as hell do  NOT know you. So.
DO NOT assume you KNOW me or the environment I live in.

"if you'll lay off trying to be more Mexican than the Mexicans"

So if you understand that, please lay off the Edward G. Olmo's speech from
Zoot Suit.

'Ta bueno?

Erik

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Re: [Marxism] Background on Standard and Poor's

[Einde O'Callaghan]

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On 06.08.2011 16:15, Louis Proyect wrote:


Meant to include this as well, from the S&P statement explaining their
downgrading of US creditworthiness.


Standard capitalism. Poor performance.

So the allegedly unthinkable has happened. Yes, it’s AAArmageddon day. 
Frankly, armageddon sick of this nonsense. Credit rating agency Standard 
and Poor’s has cut the long-term US rating by one notch to AA+ with a 
negative outlook, citing concerns about budget deficits. S&P say the US 
deficit reduction plan, passed last week, doesn’t go far enough. There 
isn’t enough austerity. There are too few job losses. The rich are 
paying too much tax and the poor are getting off lightly. That is the 
top and bottom of economic policy in S&P world. The US is already 
struggling with huge debts, unemployment of 9.1% and fears of a possible 
double-dip recession. So what is to be done? Why, rip more demand out of 
an already staggering economy.


So who the hell are Standard and Poor’s and what credentials do they 
have for their actions?


Rest at: 

He also provides the following link: 
. 
The author of this hatchet job on the rating agencies, Edmund Conway, is 
no socialist firebrand, being a former journalist on the Daioly 
Telegraph, the most conservative daily in Britain.


Einde O'Callaghan


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Re: [Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook

[Mark Lause]

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My point is that any organization claiming to be "the only" organization
with a working class orientation or with socialist politics is simply
building itself on the low level of American politics and the marginal
visibility of the Left here.

This is an ultimately unarguable statement of the bloody obvious, that
should stir no fundamental controversy.

DiMaggio's response that " basically *every* group on the left . . . thinks
it is ''the only
group with a working class orientation'" obviously conflates several things,
most obviously the difference between what people in a group might "think"
among themselves and the position to which they publicly recruit and what
they loudly assert in direct opposition to other groups. The latter trumps
any political discussion with an organizational pissing contest.  And the
former orients the group's future towards being a self-contained,
self-referencing sect . . . .

Messr Glastonbury's defense of this deceptive and dishonest practice is that
the person calling it such is clearly an S.O.B. and asks if I would "rather
have the 16 year olds of this world, adrift politically, come over to 'our'
side instead of the far right."  This bizarrely poses us a choice between
bullshitting people new to politics with surrendering them to "the far
right."  He further poses us the option of bullshitting people new to
politics with the perspectives fostered "on FOX, CNN, and other mainstream
bullshit."

In the end, bullshitting advertising hype about any group not only
contradicts our ultimate goals of encouraging the working class to take
charge of its own affairs, but will create a self-fulfilling destiny that
will be nothing more than an orientation to becoming an inbred sect.

I point this out not out of hostility to any particular group, but because I
would prefer a more politically healthier climate for the movement
generally.  We need to treat radicalizing people new to the movement not as
passive consumers of what b.s. the movement can generate, not as
hand-raisers in a meeting room, but as future decision-makers, who can face,
understand, and respect diversity within the movement without having their
heads explode.

ML

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[Marxism] More than 20 of SEALs in Osama kill die in Afg. helicopter shootdown

[Fred Feldman]

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Saturday, Aug 6, 2011 12:09 ET
SEALs who caught Osama among those killed
31 die in downed helicopter; worse loss of life in Afghanistan since war 
began

By SOLOMON MOORE, Associated Press

AP
A US Marine tries to take cover, trying to shelter from the dust as a 
Chinook helicopter arrives to pick up supplies at Forward Operating Base 
Edi in the Helmand Province of southern Afghanistan, in this June 9, 
2011 file photo.The Associated Press has learned that more than 20 Navy 
SEALs from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden were among the 31 U.S. 
soldiers lost in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.


The operators from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th 
Special Operations Aviation Regiment. That's according to one current 
and one former U.S. official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity 
because families are still being notified of the loss of their loved 
ones. One source says the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three 
Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his 
handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.


The helicopter crashed in eastern Afghanistan, killing a total of 31 
U.S. troops and seven Afghan commandos, the country's president said 
Saturday. An American official said it was apparently shot down, in the 
deadliest single incident for American forces in the decade-long war.


The Taliban claimed they downed the helicopter with rocket fire while it 
was taking part in a raid on a house where insurgents were gathered in 
the province of Wardak late Friday. It said wreckage of the craft was 
strewn at the scene.


NATO confirmed the overnight crash took place and that there "was enemy 
activity in the area." But it said it was still investigating the cause 
and conducting a recovery operation at the site. It did not release 
details or casualty figures.


"We are in the process of accessing the facts," said U.S. Air Force 
Capt. Justin Brockhoff, a NATO spokesman.


But a senior U.S. administration official in Washington said it was 
apparently shot down by insurgents. The official spoke on condition of 
anonymity because the crash is still being investigated.


President Barack Obama mourned the deaths of the American troops, saying 
in a statement that the crash serves as a reminder of the "extraordinary 
sacrifices" being made by the U.S. military and its families. He said he 
also mourned "the Afghans who died alongside our troops."


The death toll would surpass the worst single day loss of life for the 
U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan since the war began in 2001 -- the 
June 28, 2005 downing of a military helicopter in eastern Kunar 
province. In that incident, 16 Navy SEALs and Army special operations 
troops were killed when their craft was shot down while on a mission to 
rescue four SEALs under attack by the Taliban. Three of the SEALs being 
rescued were also killed and the fourth wounded. It was the highest 
one-day death toll for the Navy Special Warfare personnel since World 
War II.


With its steep mountain ranges, providing shelter for militants armed 
with rocket-propelled grenade launchers, eastern Afghanistan is 
hazardous terrain for military aircraft. Large, slow-moving air 
transport carriers like the CH-47 Chinook are particularly vulnerable, 
often forced to ease their way through sheer valleys where insurgents 
can achieve more level lines of fire from mountainsides.


Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Saturday gave the first public word of 
the new crash, saying in a statement that "a NATO helicopter crashed 
last night in Wardak province" and that 31 American special operations 
troops were killed. He expressed his condolences to President Barack Obama.


The helicopter was a twin-rotor Chinook, said an official at NATO 
headquarters in Brussels. The official, who spoke on condition of 
anonymity, said he was receiving his information from an Afghan officer 
in Kabul.


The crash took place in the Sayd Abad district of Wardak province, said 
a provincial government spokesman, Shahidullah Shahid. The volatile 
region borders the province of Kabul where the Afghan capital is located 
and is known for its strong Taliban presence.


Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said in a statement that Taliban 
fighters downed the helicopter during a "heavy raid" in Sayd Abad. He 
said NATO attacked a house in Sayd Abad where insurgent fighters were 
gathering Friday night. During the battle, the fighters shot down the 
helicopter, killing 31 Americans and seven Afghans, he said, adding that 
eight insurgents were killed in the fight.


There have been at least 17 coalition and Afghan aircraft crashes in 
Afghanistan this year.


Most of the crashes were attributed to pilot errors, weather conditions 
or mec

Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[Michael Smith]

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On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 12:17:25 -0400
Louis Proyect  deplored:

>  the refusal of some on 
> the left to support democratic struggles in countries that Nicholas 
> Cristof writes op-eds against.

But again: what exactly does this 'support' mean? A willingness 
to express hopes for their success, on a Marxist mailing list? 

One might add that the vague phrase 'democratic struggles' begs a 
number of questions. Doubtless there are plenty of honest 
salt-of-the-earth people in Iran and Syria and Libya who are fed
up with their governments, for sensible reasons that are easy 
enough to understand. But certainly in Libya there's plenty 
of imperial involvement too. The Empire has been trying to roll 
back the Iranian revolution ever since it happened, and surely
Israel and the US would prefer a more compliant regime in Syria 
-- though I don't get invited to the meetings where
imperial strategy is worked out, admittedly. 

Slapping a coat of 'democratic' whitewash over the whole 
murky picture, including its very fishy reptile-fund elements, 
seems like an exercise in self-stultification. 
   
> Michael, you've said that 40 years ago you were a Maoist. Did you learn 
> this kind of Stalinist thinking from when you were young 

Oh, Louis. What a trip down Memory Lane. Who would have 
thought that the odium-sectarium could yet spring green? 
But you're not the only one on the list murmuring darkly 
about 'Stalinists' under the bed. 

You can't make this stuff up. 

How we love to refight yesterday's wars, eh? Sometimes the 
American left reminds me of nothing so much as Civil War 
re-enacters, with their quaint facial foliage and the 
scrupulously accurate insignia of long-disbanded regiments
on their tunics. 

Tell you what, Louis: I'll go dance on Stalin's 
grave if you'll go dance on Trotsky's. Deal? 
 
-- 
--

Michael J. Smith
m...@smithbowen.net

http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org
http://www.cars-suck.org
http://fakesprogress.blogspot.com


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Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[anas abdelrahim]

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 some in the "left" seem to suggest that if a certain ruthless regime wants to 
repress and brutalize its people, all it has to do is to pose as 
anti-imperialist. this tendency bespeaks a dangerous willingness to brush aside 
the voice of the people for the sake of maintaining that regime. Personally, 
I'm not confused as to whose side i take in such situations: people and I'm 
equally opposed to American and western intervention in pursuit of their petty 
and dehumanizing interests.
 The Syrian uprising needs to be seen in the context of the long overdue 
struggle for elementary rights in the region rather than some imperialist 
scheme. America and the west will definitely try to take advantage of the 
situation as the case in Libya and they will do their best to roll back the 
revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia but ultimately we are dealing with revolts 
fueled by legitimate grievances. it would make much more sense for the left to 
stand by the people in their fight against despotism as well as imperialism.
 
--- On Sat, 8/6/11, Manuel Barrera  wrote:

From: Manuel Barrera 
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades
To: "Anas" 
Date: Saturday, August 6, 2011, 11:19 AM

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Anas remarked: "let me clarify what i meant. we can't be selective in our 
rejection of certain practices just because we might find it expedient. it 
smacks of hypocrisy to be on the side of oppressed people somewhere and turn a 
blind eye to what is clearly unconscionable brutality unleashed by the Syrian 
government against the protestors"


I "sus", Anas, that hypocrisy is the least of our worries, here. This posturing 
of anti-imperialism for sectarian and Stalinist-trained or oriented activists 
also has a material basis given that such a stance is lent legitimacy by the 
support given to Syria by various leaders prized by the "left" without much 
challenge. I am sure this support has perceived governmental advantages and 
many "Monday morning 'quarterbacks" supportive of Venezuela's Chavez, Cuba and 
Castro, never mind the always baffling support for the likes of Ahmadinejad are 
simply trying to be "on the right (sic) side of history". However, as we are 
seeing the blood and pain on the ground in Syria, Libya, as well as continuing 
in Egypt, Tunisia, not to mention Gaza, this kind of support, while perhaps 
simply misguided, is nonetheless treachery and complicity with this murder. 


The existence of Syria's Assad, Qaddafi, and their ilk IS the way that 
capitalist, and imperialist, oppression is manifest today in the Middle East as 
much as it is in the guise of Israel and NATO bombs. That this reality is so 
difficult for some to understand is a function of the insidiousness of 
capitalist thought that permeates everything, unfortunately including the 
thinking of the more conscious layers of capitalism's opponents. 

In short, I think we in the "West" need a serious mass movement to right our 
rudders 'cause "Damn!"                

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Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[Louis Proyect]

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On 8/6/11 12:08 PM, Michael Smith wrote:

Moralizing strikes me as not only a waste of time but,
dare I say it, rather un-Marxist.



That's not what the debate is about. It is about the refusal of some on 
the left to support democratic struggles in countries that Nicholas 
Cristof writes op-eds against.


This is really a hoary debate on the left going back to the 30s when 
Trotsky was accused of undermining socialism in the USSR by writing 
stinging attacks on Stalin that he paid for with his life.


Michael, you've said that 40 years ago you were a Maoist. Did you learn 
this kind of Stalinist thinking from when you were young or did you cook 
it up on your own more recently?



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Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[Michael Smith]

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On Sat, 6 Aug 2011 07:37:01 -0700 (PDT)
anas abdelrahim  wrote:

> we can't be selective in 
> our rejection of certain practices 

What exactly does this 'rejection' mean in 
practice? And what consequences, if any, does it have?

> unconscionable brutality  

Moralizing strikes me as not only a waste of time but, 
dare I say it, rather un-Marxist.  

-- 
--

Michael J. Smith
m...@smithbowen.net

http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org
http://www.cars-suck.org
http://fakesprogress.blogspot.com


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Re: [Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook

[Dan DiMaggio]

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Tristan wrote, "Though the assertion that they [the SEP] are "the only group
with a working class
orientation" is also what I get from the SWP too it seems, hehe."

Let's be clear: Basically *every* group on the left - even when it is one
that is significantly better than the SWP and SEP - thinks it is "the only
group with a working class orientation." Some of them just insist on writing
it explicitly in their articles where they focus on criticizing others on
the left. It's all nonsense, since a "working class orientation" requires
more than just a correct program (although often the groups that shriek the
loudest about their "working class orientation" are the most sectarian and
hence have the least working class orientation in practice ... go figure).

John - I agree that it was useful that Jay posted some notes from the World
Socialist Website's articles, and they are often useful as anyone on this
list will tell you. What is not useful though is the nonsense about how the
ISO is supposedly sowing illusions in the Democratic Party and is the
equivalent of The Nation magazine (a significant part of whose existence
involves a living off of sowing illusions in the Democratic Party). Some
people on this list have more familiarity with the politics of the Socialist
Equality Party than others and therefore use shorthand to complain about
their sectarianism (meaning their unfair representations and denunciations
of the rest of the socialist left and their claim that they are the only
group with a working class orientation), whereas this might seem like
condescension to you.

Dan

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[Marxism] Tea Party Commies

[Shane Mage]

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“The U.S. government has to come to terms with the painful fact that  
the good old days when it could just borrow its way out of messes of  
its own making are finally gone,” read the commentary, which was  
published in Chinese newspapers.


Beijing, which did not release any other official statement on the  
downgrade, called on Washington to make substantial cuts to its  
“bloated social welfare” programs.


(NYTimes, Saturday)


Shane Mage

"scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities
that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying  
attention to"



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[Marxism] Responding to UNSC resolution on Syria, Cuba FM restates bottom line: No intervention

[Fred Feldman]

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GRANMA  INTERNATIONAL

In opposing the steadily increasing US-NATO intervention in Libya and Syria
(most recently the Security Council vote on Syria abn the turning of the
Libyan DC embassy to the onetime rebels --an act of plunder),  I  consider
the protests in Syria for more democratic rights and/or a more democratic
government, and the violence fundamentally the consequence of the
government’s intolerance of serious dissent.

 

But no one can ignore the catastrophe that  NATO intervention has created
for the peoples of Libya, for the prospects for independence, sovereignty,
and democracy for Libya, and for the layer of sincere fighters who seem to
have lost all effective voice and control of and all sense of direction for
the movement on which many staked everything. 

 

Nor should we assume that the current level of NATO  intervention in Libya
is impossible. While there are many political and other obstacles to an
intervention on that scale (iincluding the so-far failed, though ruinous in
every way for Libya, imperialist war to oust Gadhafi), the UN resolution and
other steps point to more intervention in Syria – with no guaranteed upper
limit.

 

It is worth noting that the Israeli government, which was initially nervous
(and may still be) about the results of a successful struggle against the
Assad dictatorship, has shifted its position to coincide with Obama-Clinton,
publicly praising the protesters as fighters for “peace” and indicating that
the replacement of Assad would be a preferable outcome.

Fred Feldman

US-NATO Hands off Libya!  US-NATO Hands off Syria!

Fred  Feldman

 

Havana. August 5, 2011

Statement by Cuban Deputy Foreign Minister Marcos Rodríguez Costa

WE express our profound concern over the treatment of the internal situation
in
Syria within the UN Security Council, on the basis of the heavy pressure
being
exercised by the Western powers on this body to adopt decisions against the
legitimate government of that country.

Taking into account the experiences and precedents already created by recent
cases, which demonstrate manipulation of the UN Charter and the double
standards
which characterize the conduct of the Security Council, we express our
condemnation of any attempt to undermine the independence, sovereignty and
territorial integrity of that nation.

Cuba reiterates its confidence in the capacity of the Syrian government and
people to solve their internal problems without any foreign interference and
demands full respect for this Arab country's free self-determination and
sovereignty.

Havana, August 4, 2011 


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Re: [Marxism] Uri Avnery on the so-called "yuppie" people's revolt in Israel

[Marv Gandall]

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On 2011-09-06, at 10:42 AM, Fred Feldman posted:

> August 5 - 7, 2011
> 
> Who Are These People? Where Will They Go From Here?
> "How Godly Are Thy Tents?"
> By URI AVNERY
> 
> […]

A more respectful and hopeful article than the one posted yesterday from The 
Awl on "Israel's Yuppie Revolt". I like these sentances:

"People in the street spoke with growing admiration of the Arab revolt...

"Some of the most popular posters on the tents were 'Rothschild corner Tahrir' 
and, in a Hebrew rhyme, 'Tahrir – Not only in Cahir' – Cahir being the Hebrew 
version of al-Cahira, the Arabic name for Cairo. And also: 'Mubarak, Assad, 
Netanyahu'.

In Tahrir Square, the central slogan was 'The People Want to Overthrow the 
Regime'. In conscious emulation, the central slogan of the tent cities is 'The 
People Want Social Justice'."

Avnery worries that the latest events could provide an additional pretext for 
the Netanyahu government to start a war  - as a diversion from the growing 
social unrest inside Israel as well as the intended UN vote on Palestinian 
statehood. However, if the Israeli political and military establishment proves 
reckless enough to provoke a war,   likely drawing in Iran, I don't think the 
main impetus would be to distract from these lesser threats so much as to 
provide cover in the smoke and din of battle to expel large numbers of 
Palestinians from the West Bank, completing the ethnic cleansing operation of 
1948, a long sought goal of the Zionist right. Nothing else seems to make much 
sense given the high stakes involved in such an adventure.

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[Marxism] Responding to UNSC resolution on Syria, Cuba FM restates bottom line: No intervention

[Fred Feldman]

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From: Fred Feldman [mailto:ffeld...@verizon.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:38 AM
To: 'marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu'; 'sv-cir...@yahoogroups.com';
'snow-n...@lists.riseup.net'; 'cubasolidarit...@yahoogroups.com';
'620pe...@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Responding to UNSC resolution on Syria, Cuba FM restates bottom
line: No intervention 

 

GRANMA  INTERNATIONAL

In opposing the steadily increasing US-NATO intervention in Libya (most
recently the turning of the DC embassy to the onetime rebels,  I write as
one who considers the protests for more democratic rights and/or a more
democratic government, and the violence fundamentally the consequence of the
government’s intolerance of serious dissent.

 

But no one can ignore the catastrophe that  NATO intervention has created
for the peoples of Libya, for the prospects for independence, sovereignty,
and democracy for Libya, and the layer of sincere fighters who seem to have
lost all effective voice and control of and all sense of direction for the
movement on which many staked everything.  Nor should we assume that the
current level of NATO  intervention in Libya is impossible. While there are
many political and other obstacles to an intervention on that scale
(iincluding the so-far failed, though ruinous in every way for Libya,
imperialist war to oust Gadhafi), the UN resolution and other steps point to
more intervention in Syria.

 

It is worth noting that the Israeli government, which was initially nervous
(and may still be) about the results of a successful struggle against the
Assad dictatorship, has shifted its position to coincide with Obama-Clinton,
publicly praising the protesters as fighters for “peace” and indicating that
the replacement of Assad would be a preferable outcome.

Fred Feldman

 

US-NATO Hands off Libya!  US-NATO Hands off Syria!

Fred  Feldman

 

Havana. August 5, 2011

Statement by Cuban Deputy Foreign Minister Marcos Rodríguez Costa

WE express our profound concern over the treatment of the internal situation
in
Syria within the UN Security Council, on the basis of the heavy pressure
being
exercised by the Western powers on this body to adopt decisions against the
legitimate government of that country.

Taking into account the experiences and precedents already created by recent
cases, which demonstrate manipulation of the UN Charter and the double
standards
which characterize the conduct of the Security Council, we express our
condemnation of any attempt to undermine the independence, sovereignty and
territorial integrity of that nation.

Cuba reiterates its confidence in the capacity of the Syrian government and
people to solve their internal problems without any foreign interference and
demands full respect for this Arab country's free self-determination and
sovereignty.

Havana, August 4, 2011 


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[Marxism] To your tents, O Israel! (was Re: Uri Avnery on the so-called "yuppie" people's revolt in Israel)

[Shane Mage]

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On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:42 AM, Fred Feldman wrote:



Who Are These People? Where Will They Go From Here?
"How Godly Are Thy Tents?"
By URI AVNERY

Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam the third day...and the  
king answered the people harshly,saying "My father made your yoke  
heavy, but I will add to your yoke"...And when all Israel saw that the  
king did not harken to them, the people answered the king,

"What portion have we in David?
 We have no inheritance in the son of Jesse.
 To your tents, O Israel!"
(I Kings 12, 14-16)




FIRST OF all, a warning.

Tent cities are springing up all over Israel. A social protest  
movement is gathering momentum. At some point in the near future, it  
may endanger the right-wing government.


At that point, there will be a temptation – perhaps an irresistible  
temptation – to “warm up the borders”. To start a nice little war.  
Call on the youth of Israel, the same young people now manning (and  
womanning) the tents, to go and defend the fatherland...



Shane Mage

"scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities
that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying  
attention to"



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Re: [Marxism] 08-06-11 Re: The Syrians' Fear Factor about being assaulted by Israel and the US is a big component of the rebellion against Assad for many

[Louis Proyect]

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On 8/6/11 11:12 AM, Ralph Johansen wrote:



Louis Proyect wrote:

Unholy Alliance: How Syria is Bringing Israel, Iran, and Saudi Arabia
Together



And what of the positions of others in state power, with their own asses
to protect? How about Chavez this time? The Castro bros? I dunno - the
Cameroonians or the Dodecanese? This is getting more opaque by the day.
Do we need far greater clarification on how those on the left with the
best interests of the world's working class in their foreground maneuver
through the shoals of geopolitics? Or what? Is each event more or less
sui generis? Is there any one saving formula? Got any references to the
thoughts of the classical Marxists? If so, why wait any longer to
enlighten us? David Schanoes offered to open a conversation on this
point, 'imperialisms' large and small, a few months ago. Why not?


For me, it is fairly simple. I am totally opposed to military and 
economic intervention (sanctions, for example) against countries like 
Zimbabwe, Iran, Libya, Syria, etc. However, I support democratic and 
socialist struggles in such countries. For instance, I totally defend 
Iran's right to develop nuclear power but I also support the right of 
bus drivers in Tehran to start a union.


Maybe I was miseducated in the Trotskyist movement, but in the 1960s I 
always understood why Intercontinental Press, a magazine edited by Joe 
Hansen, one of Trotsky's bodyguards, always publicized the struggles of 
dissidents in the USSR--including Solzhenitsyn--while opposing NATO 
bases in Europe, calling for unilateral disarmament in the West, etc.



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Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[Manuel Barrera]

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Anas remarked: "let me clarify what i meant. we can't be selective in our 
rejection of certain practices just because we might find it expedient. it 
smacks of hypocrisy to be on the side of oppressed people somewhere and turn a 
blind eye to what is clearly unconscionable brutality unleashed by the Syrian 
government against the protestors"


I "sus", Anas, that hypocrisy is the least of our worries, here. This posturing 
of anti-imperialism for sectarian and Stalinist-trained or oriented activists 
also has a material basis given that such a stance is lent legitimacy by the 
support given to Syria by various leaders prized by the "left" without much 
challenge. I am sure this support has perceived governmental advantages and 
many "Monday morning 'quarterbacks" supportive of Venezuela's Chavez, Cuba and 
Castro, never mind the always baffling support for the likes of Ahmadinejad are 
simply trying to be "on the right (sic) side of history". However, as we are 
seeing the blood and pain on the ground in Syria, Libya, as well as continuing 
in Egypt, Tunisia, not to mention Gaza, this kind of support, while perhaps 
simply misguided, is nonetheless treachery and complicity with this murder. 


The existence of Syria's Assad, Qaddafi, and their ilk IS the way that 
capitalist, and imperialist, oppression is manifest today in the Middle East as 
much as it is in the guise of Israel and NATO bombs. That this reality is so 
difficult for some to understand is a function of the insidiousness of 
capitalist thought that permeates everything, unfortunately including the 
thinking of the more conscious layers of capitalism's opponents. 

In short, I think we in the "West" need a serious mass movement to right our 
rudders 'cause "Damn!"   

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[Marxism] 08-06-11 Re: The Syrians' Fear Factor about being assaulted by Israel and the US is a big component of the rebellion against Assad for many

[Ralph Johansen]

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Louis Proyect wrote:

Unholy Alliance: How Syria is Bringing Israel, Iran, and Saudi Arabia 
Together




And what of the positions of others in state power, with their own asses 
to protect? How about Chavez this time? The Castro bros? I dunno - the 
Cameroonians or the Dodecanese? This is getting more opaque by the day. 
Do we need far greater clarification on how those on the left with the 
best interests of the world's working class in their foreground maneuver 
through the shoals of geopolitics? Or what? Is each event more or less 
sui generis? Is there any one saving formula? Got any references to the 
thoughts of the classical Marxists? If so, why wait any longer to 
enlighten us? David Schanoes offered to open a conversation on this 
point, 'imperialisms' large and small, a few months ago. Why not?


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[Marxism] Uri Avnery on the so-called "yuppie" people's revolt in Israel

[Fred Feldman]

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August 5 - 7, 2011

Who Are These People? Where Will They Go From Here?
"How Godly Are Thy Tents?"
By URI AVNERY

FIRST OF all, a warning.

Tent cities are springing up all over Israel. A social protest movement 
is gathering momentum. At some point in the near future, it may endanger 
the right-wing government.


At that point, there will be a temptation – perhaps an irresistible 
temptation – to “warm up the borders”. To start a nice little war. Call 
on the youth of Israel, the same young people now manning (and 
womanning) the tents, to go and defend the fatherland.


Nothing easier than that. A small provocation, a platoon crossing the 
border “to prevent the launching of a rocket”, a fire fight, a salvo of 
rockets – and lo and behold, a war. End of protest.


In September, just a few weeks from now, the Palestinians intend to 
apply to the UN for the recognition of the State of Palestine. Our 
politicians and generals are chanting in unison that this will cause a 
crisis – Palestinians in the occupied territories may rise in protest 
against the occupation, violent demonstrations may ensue, the army will 
be compelled to shoot – and lo and behold, a war. End of protest.


* * *

THREE WEEKS ago I was interviewed one morning by a Dutch journalist. At 
the end, she asked: “You are describing an awful situation. The extreme 
right-wing controls the Knesset and is enacting abominable 
anti-democratic laws. The people are indifferent and apathetic. There is 
no opposition to speak of. And yet you exude a spirit of optimism. How 
come?”


I answered that I have faith in the people of Israel. Contrary to 
appearances, we are a sane people. Some time, somewhere, a new movement 
will arise and change the situation. It may happen in a week, in a 
month, in a year. But it will come.


On that very same day, just a few hours later, a young woman called 
Daphne Liff, with an improbable man’s hat perched on her flowing hair, 
said to herself: “Enough!”


She had been evicted by her landlady because she couldn’t afford the 
rent. She set up a tent in Rothschild Boulevard, a long, tree-lined 
thoroughfare in the center of Tel Aviv. The news spread through 
facebook, and within an hour, dozens of tents had sprung up. Within a 
week, there were some 400 tents, spread out in a double line more than a 
mile long.


Similar tent-cities sprang up in Jerusalem, Haifa and a dozen smaller 
towns. The next Saturday, tens of thousands joined protest marches in 
Tel Aviv and elsewhere. Last Saturday, they numbered more than 150,000.


This”] has now become the center of Israeli life. The Rothschild tent 
city has assumed a life of its own –a cross between Tahrir Square and 
Woodstock, with a touch of Hyde Park corner thrown in for good measure. 
The mood is indescribably upbeat, masses of people come to visit and 
return home full of enthusiasm and hope. Everybody can feel that 
something momentous is happening.


Seeing the tents, I was reminded of the words of Balaam, who was sent by 
the king of Moab to curse the children of Israel in the desert (Numbers 
24) and instead exclaimed: “How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy 
tabernacles, Oh Israel!”


* * *

IT ALL started in a remote little town in Tunisia, when an unlicensed 
market vendor was arrested by a policewoman. It seems that in the 
ensuing altercation, the woman struck the man in the face, a terrible 
humiliation for a Tunisian man. He set himself on fire. What followed is 
history: the revolution in Tunisia, regime change in Egypt, uprisings 
all over the Middle East.


The Israeli government saw all this with growing concern – but they 
didn’t imagine that there might be an effect in Israel itself. Israeli 
society, with its ingrained contempt for Arabs, could hardly be expected 
to follow suit.


But follow suit it did. People in the street spoke with growing 
admiration of the Arab revolt. It showed that people acting together 
could dare to confront leaders far more fearsome than our bumbling 
Binyamin Netanyahu.


Some of the most popular posters on the tents were “Rothschild corner 
Tahrir” and, in a Hebrew rhyme, “Tahrir – Not only in Cahir” – Cahir 
being the Hebrew version of al-Cahira, the Arabic name for Cairo. And 
also: “Mubarak, Assad, Netanyahu”.


In Tahrir Square, the central slogan was “The People Want to Overthrow 
the Regime”. In conscious emulation, the central slogan of the tent 
cities is “The People Want Social Justice”.


* * *

WHO ARE these people? What exactly do they want?

It started with a demand for “Affordable Housing”. Rents in Tel Aviv, 
Jerusalem and elsewhere are extremely high, after years of Government 
neglect. But the protest soon engulfed other subjects: the high price of 
foodstuffs and gasoline, the low w

Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades

[anas abdelrahim]

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let me clarify what i meant. we can't be selective in our rejection of certain 
practices just because we might find it expedient. it smacks of hypocrisy to be 
on the side of oppressed people somewhere and turn a blind eye to what is 
clearly  unconscionable brutality unleashed by the Syrian government against 
the protestors. we are definitely not in a position of power to condone this or 
that behavior but we can at least be consistent in adhering to our principles 
without coming across as disingenuous as bourgeois stance when it comes to 
supporting a given uprising and ignoring others depending on their interests. I 
think we can do better than this

--- On Fri, 8/5/11, Louis Proyect  wrote:

From: Louis Proyect 
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Counterpunch joins the pro-Assad brigades
To: "Anas" 
Date: Friday, August 5, 2011, 9:04 PM

==
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On 8/5/11 7:44 PM, Michael Smith wrote:
>
>> Anas Abdelrahim says, 'being anti-imperialist doesn't mean condoning
>> atrocities
>
> I much prefer Pinchy's vigorous mockery to this surreal
> managerial talk about 'condoning'. A teacher might condone
> misbehavior, an officer insubordination. But what's this
> grandiose and fatuous notion that the likes of us could
> 'condone' something over which we have no control?
>

How surreal. The sailboat-owning vice-president of the Ahmadinejad fan 
club lecturing an Iranian Marxist about the need to break with 
imperialism. Where's Brecht when you really need him.


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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

[Manuel Barrera]

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==



Erik "Authoritatively" Spouts: "Not according to two dictionaries that I have 
consulted. "guey" is considered a *mexicanismo*. . ."

And yet two or more other dictionaries . . .ad nauseum 
How 'bout you just let us "Mexicans" tell you how we've experienced the use of 
such terms; lived the language, and actually reflected upon it? The 
"dictionaries" will also tell you how it is used as an endearment for "dude". I 
challenge you to call a Chicano a "buey"/"guey"/"Wey" and see whether he/she 
shouts back "whassup"?
Tell you what, I won't try to interpret what is meant by "OMG" if you'll lay 
off trying to be more Mexican than the Mexicans.
 

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[Marxism] Rudolf Brazda, 98, Dies; Survived Pink Triangle

[Louis Proyect]

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NY Times August 5, 2011
Rudolf Brazda, 98, Dies; Survived Pink Triangle
By DENNIS HEVESI

Rudolf Brazda, believed to be the last surviving man to wear the pink 
triangle — the emblem sewn onto the striped uniforms of the thousands of 
homosexuals sent to Nazi concentration camps, most of them to their 
deaths — died on Wednesday in Bantzenheim, in Alsace, France. He was 98.


His death was confirmed by the Lesbian and Gay Federation of Germany.

Mr. Brazda, who was born in Germany, had lived in France since the 
Buchenwald camp, near Weimar, Germany, was liberated by American forces 
in April 1945. He had been imprisoned there for three years.


It was only after May 27, 2008, when the German National Monument to the 
Homosexual Victims of the Nazi Regime was unveiled in Berlin’s 
Tiergarten park — opposite the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe — 
that Mr. Brazda became known as probably the last gay survivor of the 
camps. Until he notified German officials after the unveiling, the 
Lesbian and Gay Federation believed there were no other pink-triangle 
survivors.


In a statement on Thursday, Mémorial de la Déportation Homosexuelle, a 
French organization that commemorates the Nazi persecution of gay 
people, said that Mr. Brazda “was very likely the last victim and the 
last witness” to the persecution.


“It will now be the task of historians to keep this memory alive,” the 
statement said, “a task that they are just beginning to undertake.”


One of those historians is Gerard Koskovich, curator of the Gay, 
Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender History Museum in San Francisco and an 
author with Roberto Malini and Steed Gamero of “A Different Holocaust” 
(2006).


Pointing out that only men were interned, Mr. Koskovich said, “The Nazi 
persecution represented the apogee of anti-gay persecution, the most 
extreme instance of state-sponsored homophobia in the 20th century.”


During the 12-year Nazi regime, he said, up to 100,000 men were 
identified in police records as homosexuals, with about 50,000 convicted 
of violating Paragraph 175, a section of the German criminal code that 
outlawed male homosexual acts. There was no law outlawing female 
homosexual acts, he said. Citing research by Rüdiger Lautmann, a German 
sociologist, Mr. Koskovich said that 5,000 to 15,000 gay men were 
interned in the camps and that about 60 percent of them died there, most 
within a year.


“The experience of homosexual men under the Nazi regime was one of 
extreme persecution, but not genocide,” Mr. Koskovich said, when 
compared with the “relentless effort to identify all Jewish people and 
ultimately exterminate them.”


Still, the conditions in the camps were murderous, said Edward J. 
Phillips, the director of exhibitions at the United States Holocaust 
Memorial Museum. “Men sent to the camps under Section 175 were usually 
put to forced labor under the cruelest conditions — underfed, long 
hours, exposure to the elements and brutal treatment by labor brigade 
leaders,” Mr. Phillips said. “We know of instances where gay prisoners 
and their pink triangles were used for guards’ target practices.”


Two books have been written about Mr. Brazda. In one, “Itinerary of a 
Pink Triangle” (2010), by Jean-Luc Schwab, Mr. Brazda recalled how 
dehumanizing the incarceration was. “Seeing people die became such an 
everyday thing, it left you feeling practically indifferent,” he is 
quoted as saying. “Now, every time I think back on those terrible times, 
I cry. But back then, just like everyone in the camps, I had hardened 
myself so I could survive.”


Rudolf Brazda was born on June 26, 1913, in the eastern German town of 
Meuselwitz to a family of Czech origin. His parents, Emil and Anna 
Erneker Brazda, both worked in the coal mining industry. Rudolf became a 
roofer. Before he was sent to the camp, he was arrested twice for 
violations of Paragraph 175.


After the war, Mr. Brazda moved to Alsace. There he met Edouard Mayer, 
his partner until Mr. Mayer’s death in 2003. He has no immediate survivors.


“Having emerged from anonymity,” the book “Itinerary of a Pink Triangle” 
says of Mr. Brazda, “he looks at the social evolution for homosexuals 
over his nearly 100 years of life: ‘I have known it all, from the basest 
repression to the grand emancipation of today.’ ”



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Re: [Marxism] Background on Standard and Poor's

[Louis Proyect]

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==


Meant to include this as well, from the S&P statement explaining their 
downgrading of US creditworthiness.


We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the 
prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the 
related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress 
containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or 
on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we 
previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process.


In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare 
and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and 
most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal 
sustainability.


full: 
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-sp-downgrade-of-us-rating-2011-08-05



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[Marxism] Background on Standard and Poor's

[Louis Proyect]

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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/06/gop-candidates-slam-obama-after-downgrade/
TRENDING: GOP candidates slam Obama after downgrade
By: CNN's Kevin Liptak

Washington (CNN) – Republican presidential candidates issued harsh 
criticism of President Barack Obama Friday after the credit rating 
agency Standard and Poor’s announced it was downgrading America’s 
long-term debt status.


“America’s creditworthiness just became the latest casualty in President 
Obama’s failed record of leadership on the economy,” Former 
Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said in a statement. “Standard & Poor’s 
rating downgrade is a deeply troubling indicator of our country’s 
decline under President Obama. His failed policies have led to high 
unemployment, skyrocketing deficits, and now, the unprecedented loss of 
our nation’s prized AAA credit rating.”




http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/03/moodys-and-s-avoid-cutting-ratings-on.html
Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Moody’s and S&P Avoid Cutting Ratings on AAA Subprime

A kind reader Tim e-mailed me this Bloomberg story, which apparently is 
only up on the professional version (yes, I am a member of the great 
unwashed who lacks a Bloomberg feed. Now you know what to get me for 
Christmas). I’ll add a proper link once it migrates over.


The rating agencies have taken some steps to show a new toughmindedness. 
Standard & Poor’s announced with some fanfare in January that they were 
going to either downgrade or put on negative watch $534 billion of debt. 
S&P was also so kind as to estimate that these moves could increase bank 
losses, now at roughly $130 billion, to $265 billion.


A week later, S&P announced some internal changes in an effort to 
bolster its damaged reputation. These moves seemed a bit late in coming, 
given the firestorm of well-deserved criticism aimed at rating agencies. 
Indeed, the timing was a bit sus, as they would say in Australia, coming 
only as international regulators are considering how to improve rating 
agency conduct. The decision to issue the press release now could be 
viewed as an effort to take the wind out the sails of the International 
Organization of Securities Commissions plans to implement a code of conduct.


The Bloomberg story confirms our cynicism about the S&P’s and Moody’s. 
It reports that the rating agencies have held back from downgrading AAA 
subprime related securities.




http://www.mcgraw-hill.com/site/about-us
Around the world, The McGraw-Hill Companies provides people with the 
information and insights they need to adapt and grow in changing times.


Founded in 1888, it is a leading global financial information and 
education company that helps professionals and students succeed in the 
Knowledge Economy.


Leading brands include Standard & Poor's, McGraw-Hill Education, Platts 
energy information services and J.D. Power and Associates.


By working together with our customers and partners, these brands are 
laying the foundation for a smarter, better world. (Watch the video - 
right - to hear what our employees have to say).


Harold McGraw III serves as Chairman, President and CEO.
The Corporation is headquartered in New York City and has more than 
280 offices in 40 countries.

Sales in 2010 were $6.2 billion.
Employees worldwide total approximately 21,000.





THE FLORIDA TIMES-UNION
August 3, 2006

Bush ties prove to be lucrative
by William L. Bainbridge

Country western singers Tim McGraw and Faith Hill have been getting far 
more attention than the publishing giant with a similar name that has 
been quietly gathering in our tax dollars like a hungry squirrel getting 
ready for winter.


With sales of $6 billion in 2005, publishing giant McGraw-Hill, no 
relation to the talented musical performers, produced an annualized 
return of 19% last year. Critics of President George W. Bush's 
administration have been vocal about the Bush and Cheney family ties to 
defense contractors at a time of war and, more recently, to their ties 
to the price gouging gasoline producers. Few, however, have noted the 
close and profitable relationship between the Bushes and the leadership 
of McGraw-Hill.


President Bush has managed to keep his family's nearly eighty-year 
relationship- with the McGraws alive and well - - a relationship that, 
according to THE NATION , began between the President's grandfather, 
Prescott Bush, and James McGraw Jr., great uncle of current McGraw-Hill 
Chairman Harold McGraw, III in the 1930's.


While it is generally understood and accepted that exchanging favors 
among business friends in the private sector is common practice, the 
ethics of such practices between government officials and private 
business interests is another matter. Examples in the defense

[Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook

[John Glastonbury]

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Jay took some time to post out some of his own editing, not because he's
trying to advance any specific sect, but because "it clarified" his
thinking. Shouldn't that be something to be supportive of? And frankly,
wouldn't you rather have the 16 year olds of this world, adrift politically,
come over to 'our' side instead of the far right? I'm sure there are
passages in Marx's notebooks that reek of "P.T. Barnum nonsense" and mere
"witnessing."

Both your posts are the worst type of condescension, underpinned by a bien
pensant that feels free to look down on the thinking of others. But, maybe
it helps to remember that just being attracted to left wing politics of any
real radicalism is a rather daring, hard, and free-thinking step in today's
world. Discovering that a 'working class' orientation exists, anywhere, at
all, is extremely heartening for the neophytes of this world who have been
raised on FOX, CNN, and other mainstream bullshit.

Learning how to look at capitalism appropriately is REALLY hard; it has a
thick, shiny, seemingly perfect SURFACE of market based 'equality,' between
the buyers and sellers of labor, among other things. And this shiny surface
is passed off as the deep theory of capitalism, with all aberrations the
result of 'reality' or distortions by the government. Cracking that shell
happens in stages, if it happens at all, and when it happens organically
without taking a class in Das Kapital, or a thorough academic introduction
to Marx or Trotsky, when it happens by unemployed workers who know they're
being shafted, or young people who've never even been offered the chance of
a job, then there are always certain bits and issues that are
over-emphasized or not at all, but either way, it should be welcomed and not
slandered.

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:09:28 -0400
From: Mark Lause 
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
   
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook
Message-ID:
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Did anybody on this list of Marxists actually think that Obama "caved" to
the Republicans?

I've hard very little contact with or knowledge of the Socialist Equality
Party before yesterday on Facebook.  Their members are very big on what I'd
regard as religious "witnessing," asserting that they "the only" group with
a working class orientation, etc., etc., etc.

Does this reflect the politics of the group or am I just running into the
members who are 16 years old?

ML

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 17:17:48 -0400
From: Mark Lause 
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
   
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Leaves from a debt ceiling notebook
Message-ID:
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I would be so terribly embarrassed by such an obvious bit of P.T. Barnum
nonsense.

It's essentially self-identifying the claimant as a political huckster who
can't be trusted.  It also indicates that the orientation is very clearly
not people who've been around but complete neophytes who will believe such
things or people inclined towards cultish behavior looking for a source of
fine Kool-aid.

ML

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