Re: [Marxism] Los Angeles Review of Books - "Behind The Candelabra" And The Queerness Of Liberace
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Liberace NEVER represented me as a Gay man, or the Gay men I loved then and since! - to think ALL Gays viewed a wealthy frivolous mincing immature self centered costumed performer in mink and diamonds, while people were without food - and who went to court twice to say it was an insult to be called homosexual - as being a positive image and what an apparent Marxists would call an "ice breaker"? I guess respect is not possible, instead of still being told to accept as "positive" - a repulsive role model as someone to be entertained to LAUGH AT - and what to still expect on a Marxist List in 2013? Can not a Gay Liberationist view be considered as valid, than the usual heterosexist image/message of some kind of second class entertainer role, to foster dis-respect and self-hating and homophobia? But why would any knowledgeable Marxist view Liberace as some kind of positive role model? This sounds more like what some kind of liberal with no class perspective would describe instead! News Flash!! - there were Gays before Liberace and many were rebelling and not entertaining the privileged wealthy and parasitic rulers!!! If you can not tell LGBT people about positive role models who were fighters for a better world and why they should continue that struggle, then I seriously ask one to become better aware of LGBT history, to provide better "ice breaker" role models, than the self hating Liberace. It was ridiculous denial by many heteros to portray Liberace four decades ago as some macho entertainer dating and lusting after women, as what was promoted then with the silence of denial and dis-respect. It seems the same thinking, to state he was a positive role model for ALL Gays and something good in reinforcing this sad stereotype image, particularly on young people then and today. Liberace was an unwelcomed celebrity performer to me when I was young. I was seeking and needing self-respecting males who openly were intimate with other identified males. Many similar isolated poor working class kids today do NOT have a positive view of Liberace, only someone to be at best laughed at, or pitied, or mostly shunned, since there are no shared values and positive experiences with this "role model and ice breaker". > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 20:13:26 -0500 > From: gulfm...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Marxism] Los Angeles Review of Books - "Behind The Candelabra" > And The Queerness Of Liberace > > > Notwithstanding O'Brien's negative assessment of Liberace's politics, > visually he was an out-of-the-closet icebreaker for gays, despite his > off-the-stage politics. So: no freedom fighter for sure, but... > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, John Obrien wrote: > > > > I saw this film for free - and my impressions are: > > 1) don't waste your time viewing it Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Los Angeles Review of Books - "Behind The Candelabra" And The Queerness Of Liberace
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Notwithstanding O'Brien's negative assessment of Liberace's politics, visually he was an out-of-the-closet icebreaker for gays, despite his off-the-stage politics. So: no freedom fighter for sure, but... On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, John Obrien wrote: > > > I saw this film for free - and my impressions are: > > 1) don't waste your time viewing it > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Los Angeles Review of Books - "Behind The Candelabra" And The Queerness Of Liberace
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Most big-budget films with leading gay characters are almost exclusively about sex, and more particularly about the suffering of the principals. There may be a kind of cultural law that until an oppressed group attains freedom the artistic representation of them will remain as a group. Womens' films were about women as women struggling for freedom until maybe the mid 70s, there were blacks as only civil rights figures, etc. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Los Angeles Review of Books - "Behind The Candelabra" And The Queerness Of Liberace
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I saw this film for free - and my impressions are: 1) don't waste your time viewing it 2) It let Liberace and his family off easily. Liberace made his money entertaining old hetero women who wanted to see Liberace "as the boy who never grew up". With millions of dollars made - Liberace stayed in the closet and sued successfully TWICE in court tabloid writers implying that he was a homosexual (who would think such!!) The film alluded to only one famous court case. While including Liberace comments in his criticising celebrities Jane Fonda and Ed Asner's support for progressive causes, there is no concerns of Liberace not contributing any money or effort for LGBT rights or those being discriminated against. One thing that should have been in this film was Liberace's sister ordering the only Gay bar then in Las Vegas to be evicted and closed on property that her brother Liberace had owned - because "it was frequented by those immoral people", after Liberace's death. Family Values Indeed!! Of course the current conditions of having LGBT's to be laughed at for entertainment in the U. S., is better than their been physically attacked as was widespread and condoned in the not so far past - and still continues - but it is not the role that those wanting liberation seek. There is a difference in grudging tolerance and with that of real respect. However, there was no reason then or now to respect Liberace - but there is for respecting ourselves in thinking this film does somehow promote rights for LGBT working and poor people. Liberace has no connection to Marxism, except as an opponent who deserves no attention, time or respect - despite the good intentions of the actors who agreed to make this bad movie. Who cares what the lives of wealthy people are in dealing with substance abuse and sex? This is a Marxist List and could do better to focus on progressive LGBT figures in historical films instead, even if made by other directors. This film is a waste of time. > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 09:20:02 -0400 > From: l...@panix.com > Subject: [Marxism] Los Angeles Review of Books - "Behind The Candelabra" And > The Queerness Of Liberace > To: causecollec...@msn.com > > I don't know how many folks have HBO but Steven Soderbergh's biopic of > Liberace is worth watching if for no other reason that he is an > interesting director. The film itself has generated a lot of buzz, a lot > of it having to do with Michael Douglas's performance as Liberace. > > I have very mixed feelings about the film. Some critics say that it is > Soderbergh's way of thumbing his nose at celebrity and glitz--something > that I can obviously embrace--but there is a voyeuristic aspect to the > film that is singularly off-putting. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
