[Marxism] Erdogan says he wants nuclear weapons - New York Times
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Erdogan says he wants nuclear weapons David E. Sanger and William J. Broad - The New York Times - Sunday, October 20, 2019 WASHINGTON — Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, wants more than control over a wide swath of Syria along his country’s border. He says he wants the Bomb. In the weeks leading up to his order to launch the military across the border to clear Kurdish areas, Mr. Erdogan made no secret of his larger ambition. “Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads,” he told a meeting of his governing party in September. But the West insists “we can’t have them,” he said. “This, I cannot accept.” With Turkey now in open confrontation with its NATO allies, having gambled and won a bet that it could conduct a military incursion into Syria and get away with it, Mr. Erdogan’s threat takes on new meaning. If the United States could not prevent the Turkish leader from routing its Kurdish allies, how can it stop him from building a nuclear weapon or following Iran in gathering the technology to do so? It was not the first time Mr. Erdogan has spoken about breaking free of the restrictions on countries that have signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, and no one is quite sure of his true intentions. The Turkish autocrat is a master of keeping allies and adversaries off balance, as President Trump discovered in the past two weeks. “The Turks have said for years that they will follow what Iran does,” said John J. Hamre, a former deputy secretary of defense who now runs the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. “But this time is different. Erdogan has just facilitated America’s retreat from the region.” “Maybe, like the Iranians, he needs to show that he is on the two-yard line, that he could get a weapon at any moment,” Mr. Hamre said. If so, he is on his way — with a program more advanced than that of Saudi Arabia, but well short of what Iran has assembled. But experts say it is doubtful that Mr. Erdogan could put a weapon together in secret. And any public move to reach for one would provoke a new crisis: His country would become the first NATO member to break out of the treaty and independently arm itself with the ultimate weapon. Already Turkey has the makings of a bomb program: uranium deposits and research reactors — and mysterious ties to the nuclear world’s most famous black marketeer, Abdul Qadeer Khan of Pakistan. It is also building its first big power reactor to generate electricity with Russia’s help. That could pose a concern because Mr. Erdogan has not said how he would handle its nuclear waste, which could provide the fuel for a weapon. Russia also built Iran’s Bushehr reactor. Experts said it would take a number of years for Turkey to get to a weapon, unless Mr. Erdogan bought one. And the risk for Mr. Erdogan would be considerable. “Erdogan is playing to an anti-American domestic audience with his nuclear rhetoric, but is highly unlikely to pursue nuclear weapons,” said Jessica C. Varnum, an expert on Turkey at Middlebury’s James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, Calif. “There would be huge economic and reputational costs to Turkey, which would hurt the pocketbooks of Erdogan’s voters.” “For Erdogan,” Ms. Varnum said, “that strikes me as a bridge too far.” There is another element to this ambiguous atomic mix: The presence of roughly 50 American nuclear weapons, stored on Turkish soil. The United States had never openly acknowledged their existence, until Wednesday, when Mr. Trump did exactly that. Asked about the safety of those weapons, kept in an American-controlled bunker at Incirlik Air Base, Mr. Trump said, “We’re confident, and we have a great air base there, a very powerful air base.” But not everyone is so confident, because the air base belongs to the Turkish government. If relations with Turkey deteriorated, the American access to that base is not assured. Turkey has been a base for American nuclear weapons for more than six decades. Initially, they were intended to deter the Soviet Union, and were famously a negotiating chip in defusing the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, when President John F. Kennedy secretly agreed to remove missiles from Turkey in return for Moscow doing the same in Cuba. But tactical weapons have remained. Over the years, American officials have often expressed nervousness about the weapons, which have little to no strategic use versus Russia now, but have been part of a NATO strategy to keep regional players in check — and keep Turkey from feeling the need for a bomb of its own. When Mr. Erdogan put down an attempted military co
[Marxism] Sewer socialism
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * All the more reason to tell your friends about AMERICAN SOCIALIST: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF EUGENE VOCTOR DEBS. Now available from www.firstrunfeatures.com/americansocialist.html on iTunes and Amazon. Please spread the word. NY Times Op-Ed, Oct. 19, 2019 The City Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez Would Have Loved to Live In When “sewer socialism” ruled during the first half of the 20th century, Milwaukee flourished. By Dan Kaufman Mr. Kaufman is a writer and musician who grew up in Wisconsin. Since the presidential campaign began, the prospect that socialism would seize the Democratic Party has animated Republicans and created anxiety for many Democrats. Last Tuesday, hours before the Democratic debate, President Trump’s campaign flew a 105-foot-long banner reading “Socialism Destroys Ohio Jobs: Vote Trump” over the debate site in Westerville, Ohio. At the same time, some progressives, including Senator Elizabeth Warren, have rejected any association with the socialist label. Warren has called herself a “capitalist to my bones” and stood up to applaud Mr. Trump’s declaration that “America will never be a socialist country” during this year’s State of the Union address. (Senator Bernie Sanders, the only major presidential candidate who identifies as a democratic socialist, remained seated.) Mr. Sanders, who just received the endorsement of the country’s second-most prominent democratic socialist, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, has fended off Republican attacks by tying his economic ideology to Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal. Mr. Sanders should also consider another remarkable American legacy: the one provided by the socialists who once ruled Milwaukee, the city that will host the 2020 Democratic National Convention and the only large American city that has ever been governed for a significant period of time by socialists. Mocked by ideological purists for practicing “sewer socialism,” Milwaukee’s pragmatic socialists focused on winning concrete gains for their working-class constituents. From 1910 to 1960, they held the mayor’s office for nearly 40 years, elected numerous state legislators and aldermen, and won a congressional seat. Sewer socialists — who carried out measures to improve public health and investments in public infrastructure like schools, libraries, parks and, yes, sewers — were known for their integrity, their tactical ingenuity and their relentless organizing. Even today, when third-party politics are more untenable and labor unions are in decline, the sewer socialists’ blend of unwavering idealism and dogged gradualism offers valuable lessons for building and sustaining a progressive working-class movement. The roots of sewer socialism go back to the mid-19th century, when a wave of German immigrants settled in Milwaukee. Some were refugees from the failed revolution of 1848 and had been members of the Turnverein, or Turners, a physical fitness movement that also encouraged intellectual development and liberal — sometimes radical — politics. German immigration and the Turner movement grew in the 1870s and 1880s, as Milwaukee transformed into “the machine shop of the world” and a central battleground for the American labor movement. In 1886, workers across the city went on strike to try and win an eight-hour workday. That campaign ended in violent defeat when Wisconsin National Guardsmen fired into a crowd of strikers, killing seven people, including a 13-year-old boy. But workers in Milwaukee soon coalesced around the short-lived People’s Party, which advocated reforms like restrictions on child labor. Later that year, the People’s Party won many State Assembly seats, county offices and a seat in the United States House. Democrats and Republicans colluded to defeat the party in the next election, but its rise inspired an immigrant Milwaukee schoolteacher named Victor Berger to try and fashion a reformist, European-style socialist party for the United States. In 1895, Berger visited Eugene V. Debs, the president of the American Railway Union, in prison in Illinois. Berger brought Debs, who had been jailed for leading a national railway workers’ strike, a copy of Marx’s “Capital,” a gift that Debs later acknowledged had converted him to socialism. Not long after, Berger and Debs helped found the Social Democratic Party of America, whose name was soon changed to the Socialist Party. (In Milwaukee, the party retained its original name, a reflection, perhaps, of the myriad definitions of “socialism” and of the fact that, as the Milwaukee historian John Gurda told me, Berger’s place “was on th
Re: [Marxism] Mark Esperanto? Trump Misnames His Defense Secretary in Tweet
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[Marxism] Mark Esperanto? Trump Misnames His Defense Secretary in Tweet
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * NY Times, Oct. 20, 2019 Mark Esperanto? Trump Misnames His Defense Secretary in Tweet By Katie Rogers WASHINGTON — President Trump shared an update on Sunday from his defense secretary that outlined “minor skirmishes” between Turkish and Kurdish fighters in northern Syria as American troops make their way out of the area. It might have passed by with little notice in the rushing current of Mr. Trump’s Twitter stream, but for one thing. “Mark Esperanto, Secretary of Defense, ‘The ceasefire is holding up very nicely. There are some minor skirmishes that have ended quickly,'” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter. “‘New areas being resettled with the Kurds.’ USA soldiers are not in combat or ceasefire zones. We have secured the Oil. Bringing soldiers home!” Even for Mr. Trump, who often lards his online missives with typos, caps-lock abuses, occasional gibberish and errant exclamation points, Sunday’s missive contained an outsize number of errors. The first and most glaring: The president’s defense secretary is actually named Mark Esper. Questions arose. Was it a typo? How could Mr. Trump’s iPhone even make the jump from “Esper” to “Esperanto” if it was an auto-correct situation? It was a mystery that several White House officials could not solve when asked by a reporter on Sunday. The larger problem, of course, is that Mr. Trump made a series of false or unsupported statements about a chaotic situation that has unfolded since he stood by as President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey advanced his forces into the area. In recent days, the vice president traveled to Turkey to negotiate a brief cease-fire — a nominal sacrifice from Mr. Erdogan that the White House has tried to frame as a win. The quote Mr. Trump attributed to Mr. Esper could have come from a private conversation between them. But it appeared that it might have been a recounting — if not an entirely faithful one — of public comments made by Mr. Esper, who made an unannounced visit to meet with American troops in Afghanistan this weekend and delivered his own assessment of what was happening in Syria. “I think overall the cease-fire generally seems to be holding,” Mr. Esper said, according to a Reuters correspondent traveling with him. “We see a stabilization of the lines, if you will, on the ground, and we do get reports of intermittent fires, this and that, that doesn’t surprise me necessarily.” At the end of the tweet, Mr. Trump added two confusing elements of his own. The first was that United States had “secured the oil,” a claim he has repeatedly made in recent days without any explanation. The White House did not clarify what he meant by those remarks, and Mr. Trump has ignored the question when asked about it by reporters. Last year, there were about 2.5 billion barrels of oil in the fields in northern Syria, according to industry estimates. The president also said that the United States was “bringing soldiers home,” which is also not correct, at least not in the short term: Mr. Esper has confirmed that the troops leaving Syria are heading to Iraq, to continue operations against the Islamic State. Separately, the Trump administration said this month that it would be committing additional troops to Saudi Arabia, a decision the president has said was made because the Saudis agreed to pay for the operation. “A very rich country,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference with the Italian president last week. “They should be paying. And so should many other countries be paying if they want this kind of protection.” Hours after the original tweet was posted to the presidential account, the White House tried again, spelling Mr. Esper’s name correctly. Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump “The ceasefire is holding up very nicely. There are some minor skirmishes that have ended quickly. New areas being resettled with Kurds. U.S. soldiers are not in combat or ceasefire zone. We have secured the Oil.” Mark Esper, Secretary of Defense. Ending endless wars! Most of the other questionable assertions remained. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] We Need To Talk About This Picture Of Donald Trump | Crooks and Liars
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[Marxism] Will Trump Be Removed from Office? Elizabeth Drew
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[Marxism] impeachment, Ukraine and Syria
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The impeachment inquiry is not just a conflict between two capitalist political parties; it is an effort of the mainstream of the US capitalist class to regain control over its presidency. That is how it relates to Trump's policies in regards to both Ukraine and Syria. Socialists are tending to be too conservative and fail to recognize the degree to which the mainstream of the US capitalist class has largely lost control over their presidency. "Although it came first, the Nancy Pelosi-led impeachment inquiry cannot be understood without understanding Trump’s troop withdrawal from Syria. "For over a year now, mainstream capitalist commentators have been railing against Trump’s attacks on what they call the rule of law. They have continually warned that “our democracy” is at danger. These comments have not been made about previous presidents, and understanding them is essential to understanding the present political crisis." https://oaklandsocialist.com/2019/10/20/impeachment-ukraine-and-syria/ -- *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black Jacobins" by C. L. R. James Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Garbis AltinogluMarxism Digest, Vol 192, Issue 32
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * > > Louis: > Louis: First thanks for posting this. I do however want to correct your description: 'lurker'. It is true, that as a ML-ist, I do not post here often. But I have posted. I keep out of fruitless areas of contention. I sent it to you to ensure that I was not posting something only of interest to ML-ists. I may not have been clear enough. But thanks again. Hari Kumar ___ > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:39:31 -0400L > Subject: [Marxism] Garbis Altinoglu > Message-ID: <182b38dd-fc2a-575a-c538-dd32115ca...@panix.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > (Forwarded from a lurker.) > > It is my very sad duty to inform the progressive and Marxist community > that Garbis Altinoglu passed away 4 days ago. It was the case that he > was a ML-ist, however perhaps some on the list my be interested and > perhaps mourn his death. For those in Belgium, his funeral takes place > on Monday. > > Altinoglu became a Marxist, from an early age. His full memory will be > commemorate by ML-Currents-Today at a later juncture. Here only a few > sparse details are offered. > > -He was imprisoned for approximately ten years in the Turkish fascist > jails, and although he did not like to talk about this, he was > tortured. He wrote a book documenting the prisons of the Turkish > fascists and copies are still available. > > - He was a leading member of the MLCP of Turkey, although he later left > on principled grounds. His evaluation of the ML-ist left in Turkey can > be found at the website of AllianceML - Under 'T' for Turkey. > Here:, are some other articles of his in English: > > Articles by Garbis Altinoglu > The HIZBULLAH Of Turkey > http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/HIZBULLAHGA2000.HTM > History of MLCP And the Revolutionary Movement > http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/ALL35MLCP%28TURKEY%29GA2000.HTM > Summary of the Ordeal in Turkish Prisons; > http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/ALL37-GARBISPRISONS2000.HTM > > He was a staunch translator into Turkish of key texts from Marx and others. > > > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fort Worth Police Have More Violence to Answer For, Residents Say
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * NY Times, Oct. 20, 2019 Fort Worth Police Have More Violence to Answer For, Residents Say By Manny Fernandez, Sarah Mervosh and Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs FORT WORTH — Before there was Atatiana Jefferson, there was Jackie Craig, a black woman who called the police to report that her white neighbor had grabbed her son — and found herself pinned to the ground by the officer who responded. There was Henry Newson, a black man who had just been discharged from the hospital and was waiting for a ride home when two officers working security questioned why he was there. He refused to leave, and a white officer punched him in the face. There was Craigory Adams, also black, who knocked on his neighbor’s door late one night carrying a barbecue fork — to keep stray dogs away, he said — and the neighbor called the police. A white officer pointed a shotgun at Mr. Adams but said he wasn’t meaning to fire it. He did, striking Mr. Adams in the arm. These names and others have all been brought up again in the days since Ms. Jefferson, a 28-year-old black woman, was shot and killed in her bedroom this month by a white police officer who was standing outside her window. In the largely black and Hispanic neighborhood in southeast Fort Worth where Ms. Jefferson lived, and in others nearby, many residents recalled times when they had tried calling the police — and ended up sorry that they did. “This is not an isolated incident,” said the Rev. Kyev Tatum, who is part of a coalition asking the Justice Department to investigate “over-aggressive policing” in Fort Worth’s communities of color. “This is historic and it is systemic, and we understand that racism is at the heart of this.” The long-simmering tensions boiled to the surface this month after Ms. Jefferson became the sixth person to be killed by the Fort Worth police since June. Four of the six were black. Five years after a police shooting in Ferguson, Mo., stoked a national debate over race and policing, Fort Worth is far from the only community where residents complain that the conversation in their city never really went anywhere. In Dallas, just 30 miles east of Fort Worth, a similar case played out tragically over the past year: A white off-duty police officer was sentenced to 10 years in prison earlier this month after she mistakenly entered the apartment of a black neighbor, Botham Shem Jean, and shot him to death while he was watching television. “There’s a pattern,” said Ms. Craig, 49. “They want to say that it’s not racially motivated,” she said. “It’s just obvious to the eye that it is.” Ms. Jefferson’s death drew hundreds to a vigil outside her house in Fort Worth. At City Hall, protesters held signs reading “Say Her Name.” And on the Democratic presidential debate stage last week in Ohio, Julián Castro brought up Ms. Jefferson’s death to discuss police violence. Fort Worth has a storied history as a Western outpost — it lives up to its Cowtown nickname with twice-daily cattle drives in the historic district — but today, the nation’s 13th largest city is in some ways two different places, divided along racial and economic lines. It is home to the Walmart heiress Alice Walton, the wealthiest person in Texas, but neighborhoods like Ms. Jefferson’s are dotted with abandoned homes. Most of the police force, about 65 percent, is white — as are the mayor, the city manager, a majority of the City Council and now the police chief, after the department’s first black chief was fired earlier this year. Black and Hispanic residents, who together make up a majority in the city, complain that they often feel ignored by city leadership, and unfairly targeted by the police. Black residents on their own make up about 18 percent of the population, but they accounted for 40 percent of arrests in 2017. The latest turmoil began after midnight on Oct. 12, when Ms. Jefferson was playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew. Two officers responded to a neighbor’s report that her doors were open. As Ms. Jefferson grabbed a gun from her purse, one of the officers fired the fatal shot through a bedroom window without identifying himself, the police said. The officer, Aaron Y. Dean, who quickly resigned, now faces a murder charge. From the beginning, city officials knew the case was going to be unlike any of the previous police shootings. The mayor, Betsy Price, said the interim police chief, Ed Kraus, called her at about 6:30 a.m., and told her the essence of what had occurred overnight. “He just said, ‘I don’t think it’s going to be pretty,’” Mayor Price recalled. “‘It’s too early. I don’t
[Marxism] Indigenous Knowledge Has Been Warning Us About Climate Change for Centuries - Pacific Standard
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[Marxism] Garbis Altinoglu
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (Forwarded from a lurker.) It is my very sad duty to inform the progressive and Marxist community that Garbis Altinoglu passed away 4 days ago. It was the case that he was a ML-ist, however perhaps some on the list my be interested and perhaps mourn his death. For those in Belgium, his funeral takes place on Monday. Altinoglu became a Marxist, from an early age. His full memory will be commemorate by ML-Currents-Today at a later juncture. Here only a few sparse details are offered. -He was imprisoned for approximately ten years in the Turkish fascist jails, and although he did not like to talk about this, he was tortured. He wrote a book documenting the prisons of the Turkish fascists and copies are still available. - He was a leading member of the MLCP of Turkey, although he later left on principled grounds. His evaluation of the ML-ist left in Turkey can be found at the website of AllianceML - Under 'T' for Turkey. Here:, are some other articles of his in English: Articles by Garbis Altinoglu The HIZBULLAH Of Turkey http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/HIZBULLAHGA2000.HTM History of MLCP And the Revolutionary Movement http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/ALL35MLCP%28TURKEY%29GA2000.HTM Summary of the Ordeal in Turkish Prisons; http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/ALL37-GARBISPRISONS2000.HTM He was a staunch translator into Turkish of key texts from Marx and others. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The Political Economy of Trumpism
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[Marxism] [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] [UCE] MR Online | The U.S. armed and funded extremists in Syria
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Monthly Review Online provides a platform for the debased Rania Khalek. https://secure-web.cisco.com/1MY5Tsk3Bi8rb1XoUKjJ_KUrA1w7RkZQ57T-w9XgCr48OlZfjsWmBRSMhQnMastrgPKQKItWvDsPFLnV06AELU9mA-ipkMPEmBmO_pd8KTND00jKeIMauEzEYDY3XNxmOjYmax-lu8ichVjhtkfa4tbOavOgkYpT4c1UXBbnnByRtiIzPe0yndofR-mMTxz4o2pnTrszoLegEt6W9Bon-_yAxxT96XvhkjjG6rOA9jDF3YH10hLnrxU44wnFpgi-NHn9HtH4buOoCPB0uZWJqquSU9lwQrrXh3uDdJBwmwX0TmDfdgm0vpOGhEn0iNk5sP-4Tq0CPQyQ40Avg0v9_4T2QU6x8WTr9R7ExIHWqQVHlWveLz7cG7Du_7W2hqeWz/https%3A%2F%2Fmronline.org%2F2019%2F10%2F19%2Fthe-u-s-armed-and-funded-extremists-in-syria%2F _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] How Left-Wing Parties Abandoned Working Class Voters, and What Happened Next | The Tyee
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[Marxism] resend - Introducing Socialist Resurgence US
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * INTRODUCING SOCIALIST RESURGENCE! | | | | | | | | | | | INTRODUCING SOCIALIST RESURGENCE! Detail of “Death of the Party”, Painting by Mike Alewitz Socialist Resurgence (SR) is a new national organizatio... | | | _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] WSJ: Inside America?s Chaotic Retreat from Syria (On the "Saigon Moment")
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Look, the "Saigon Moment" is meant as an analogy - not as literally comparison. What we meant by this is that we are in the midst of an important moment where the US suffers a dramatic setback in a relatively short period. When we spoke about Washington’s “/Saigon moment/” we didn't mean only Syria but also other related delevopments: "Other striking examples for Washington’s “/Saigon moment/” are the looming withdrawal of its troops from Afghanistan and its flinching response to the Iranian attacks on Saudi Arabia, its most important Arab ally, in recent weeks." (Thesis 2 of our statement https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/syria-assad-regime-and-kurdish-ypg-strike-a-reactionary-deal/) No doubt, Trum the Dumb worsen this crisis. Surely, every bourgeois politician with any sense is furious about him. But all these developments together in the past weeks and months can not primarely (!) expalined by the idiocy of the Orange Man. This is the whole point for me in this discussion. Am 19.10.2019 um 21:45 schrieb John Reimann via Marxism: POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * RKOB posted a series of articles detailing the hectic situation in a US outpost in NE Syria. I assume he posted these in defense of the claim that this is similar to the US defeat in Vietnam. The moment of withdrawal may have similar scenes, but overall it is nowhere near comparable for two reasons: First, the US did not face a military defeat in Syria. Nor were their troops hated and driven out by the local population. On the contrary, the Kurds evidently felt they were being protected from Turkey by the US troops, and so they were. Second, this decision to withdraw was opposed by all wings of the US state and by the capitalist class in general. It shows the extreme political crisis of US capitalism at home. This is as opposed to Vietnam, where if anything the US capitalist class wanted to withdraw before Nixon was ready to do so. In general, I agree with RKOB that US imperialism has been weakened globally. But I think it's a mistake to impose this general truth onto our understanding of what happened in this particular situation. John Reimann -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net) www.rkob.net ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 -- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
