Re: [Marxism] Putin's leftist friends

2014-07-28 Thread T via Marxism
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Russia is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, 
who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their 
hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the 
right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up 
their money.

The United States is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called 
oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can 
get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, 
democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides 
heaping up their money.

The Ukrainian government in Kyiv is run by a corrupt pack of super rich 
capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of 
the land inside the borders of the Ukraine they can get their hands on, and 
don’t give a shit about about freedom, democracy, or anything else besides 
heaping up their money.

That said, regardless of the regime in power over them, the Ukrainians have the 
right to refuse to become part of either the Russian or the U.S. Empires, and 
to resist either by force of arms.

If Ukrainians could manage to wipe out their own ruling class government of 
oligarchs, centered in Kyiv, and install a working class government, it would 
be much easier to defend themselves against hungry Empires.  

This would also bring the support of unhappy Eastern Ukrainians. 

The Eastern Ukrainians have as much right to revolution against a government of 
capitalist oligarch tyrants as the Ukrainians had to rise up against the 
government of the tyrant Yanukovych and his oligarchs that their uncompleted 
revolution overthrew in February.

The Eastern Ukrainians are right to rise up against the new government of 
oligarchs in Kyiv and the billionaire oligarchs that government has appointed 
to rule over them without their consent.

If they wish to, the Eastern Ukrainians have as much right to 
self-determination as any other group of oppressed, exploited people ruled by 
appointed oligarchs who set governors over them from far away, and grow fat on 
their exploitation.

In the best of all possible worlds, Ukrainian government soldiers and the armed 
rebels of Eastern Ukraine would stop fighting each other and join together to 
wipe out all the Ukrainian oligarchs, and set an example for what Russians can 
do with Putin’s government of, by, and for the super rich in Russia.

Obviously, that is not likely now.

That is no excuse for tolerating an infestation of vermin who side with the 
U.S. Empire against the Russian Empire, or those who side with the Russian 
Empire against the U.S. Empire.

T



-Original Message-
From: Glenn Kissack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Sent: Jul 28, 2014 11:10 AM
To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Putin's leftist friends


 __

Thanks for posting this. Among other things, the author clearly understands 
that Ukraine is the site of inter-imperialist conflict and that the U.S. has 
been active in pulling Ukraine out of the Russian orbit and into that of 
Western capitalism. In arguing against the left taking pro-Putin positions, he 
consciously avoids letting the U.S. off the hook. The Salon piece stands in 
contrast to Clay's postings.

Glenn

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Re: [Marxism] An arguement against the Su-25 shooting down an airline (or THE airliner in this case)

2014-07-23 Thread T via Marxism
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Here is further documentation, from a source published by members of the U.S. 
armed forces, that Eastern Ukrainian popular fighters had nothing whatever to 
do with the shoot-down of the plane load of already-dead bodies blamed on 
seperatist militia members, who were not even there.

http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/07/donovian-militants-mh17-shot-down/?omhide=trueutm_source=Duffel+Blog+Email+Newsletterutm_campaign=24782dbaf1-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGNutm_medium=emailutm_term=0_6128900c72-24782dbaf1-11813721#!bkHj0y

He who has not understood this has understood nothing.

The anti-fascist forces, whose wisdom and courage are higher than the Pamirs, 
have only to wiggle a little finger to secure victory.

T


-Original Message-
From: DW via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Sent: Jul 23, 2014 11:53 AM
To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net
Subject: [Marxism] An arguement against the Su-25 shooting down an airline (or 
THE airliner in this case)

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http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/

The guy who wrote this is a commercial air line pilot. He makes a very good
technical case why an Su-25 could, or likely wouldn't, shoot down the
plane. I don't agree with everything he writes but he makes a...better
case...here than anything else I've read on blogs.



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Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder

2014-07-19 Thread T via Marxism
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What?

Blame those who shot down the plane?

What a silly notion!

They are anti-fascist heroes defending the peoples' motherland from White Guard 
gnats and Trotskyite wreckers in their Imperialist coup-mongering Black Flag 
aircraft.

Nothing can be the fault of the anti-fascist heroes.

T

-Original Message-
From: Michael Karadjis via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Sent: Jul 19, 2014 1:28 PM
To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Ukrainian responsibility for the mass murder

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-Original Message- 
From: Clay Claiborne via Marxism

I heard commercial air planes had flown that route many times a day 
before
this shoot down. In any case they knew as well the government that Putin
forces had weapons that could shoot them down if they flew within 60km 
of
East Ukraine, So if you're going to blame Ukraine, you also have to 
blame
MH, KLM, and all other carriers who continued to use this route.

Or you can use normal logic and blame those who shot down the plane.


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