Re: [Marxism] Independent: Tsipras shows his Machiavellian streak
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Perhaps I am hopelessly naive, but I still hold out hope for young master Tsipras. I realize that he may be motivated now more by the desire to cling to power at any cost than to lead a transformative movement that liberates his suffering people's from the jackboot of German mercantilism, but nevertheless I feel as though if he was going to completely sell out he would have had the opportunity to do so years ago. He is still surrounded by a lot of people who will keep pushing him. Who knows, he and Tsakalatos may also be playing for time and trying to stabilize the situation a bit more before taking more decisive actions. And if all else fails, the objective conditions in Greece and the other so-called PIIGS will continue to call forth radical challenges. Everyone keeps saying that these defeats and betrayals will rebound to the radical right in Greece, but I doubt that. I think the left in Greece will continue to hold ideological hegemony. Reading about the solidarity networks and the way ordinary Greeks have gone out of their way to help the endless stream of refugees fleeing the aftermath of imperial carnage (like in that article I posted today about Lesvos) leaves me with a sense of hope for another day of struggle there... > 21 июля 2015 г., в 19:08, Louis Proyect написал(а): > >> On 7/21/15 6:49 PM, Shalva Eliava via Marxism wrote: >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-news-alexis-tsipras-shows-his-machiavellian-streak-in-a-purge-of-syriza-rebels-10399042.html > > Isn't becoming obvious that Tsipras has effectively split from Syriza? If > anything is to be salvaged, it will be a result of the Left Forum regrouping > and moving ahead with the Thessalonika Program. In a way, it would have been > clear if Tsipras had simply announced that he was joining PASOK or something > but in politics there is always a large element of self-deception. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Independent: Tsipras shows his Machiavellian streak
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Only Shalva and Lou are gallantly keeping the thread going on Greece. The silence of other list members may indicate that they have sunk into something like despair. Certainly that is my situation. I want, though, to address the question was the Tsipras-Dragasakis coup inevitable? Certainly, I think that in broad front politics there will inevitably be a Tsipras and a Dragasakis. But what I maintain is that their victory is not inevitable. What was crucial, I think (from 15180.65 km away), was the failure of the Left Platform to develop an alternative Plan B. Kouvleakis puts the blame on Dragasakis for the absence of such a fall back strategy. But that is simply shifting the blame. Why would Dragasakis or Tsipras develop an alternative? Syriza I believe has split three times before and always to the Right. I think we have just seen the fourth split but Tsipras will not name it as one. He is fighting to be Syriza. But it will avail him little. He will become the Ramsay MacDonald or the Billy Hughes of Greek politics. In Australian terms he is the 'rat in the ranks'. & btw I think we have long passed the time when the Socialist Alliance should name him as such and admit the error of defending him from criticism. But perhaps that is just a residue of my Trotskyism. If I can get time away from struggling with Plato's theory of knowledge I will attempt to redeem my promise (threat?) to respond to the Callinicos-Kouvelakis debate. comradely Gary On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > On 7/21/15 6:49 PM, Shalva Eliava via Marxism wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-news-alexis-tsipras-shows-his-machiavellian-streak-in-a-purge-of-syriza-rebels-10399042.html >> > > Isn't becoming obvious that Tsipras has effectively split from Syriza? If > anything is to be salvaged, it will be a result of the Left Forum > regrouping and moving ahead with the Thessalonika Program. In a way, it > would have been clear if Tsipras had simply announced that he was joining > PASOK or something but in politics there is always a large element of > self-deception. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Independent: Tsipras shows his Machiavellian streak
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/21/15 6:49 PM, Shalva Eliava via Marxism wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-news-alexis-tsipras-shows-his-machiavellian-streak-in-a-purge-of-syriza-rebels-10399042.html Isn't becoming obvious that Tsipras has effectively split from Syriza? If anything is to be salvaged, it will be a result of the Left Forum regrouping and moving ahead with the Thessalonika Program. In a way, it would have been clear if Tsipras had simply announced that he was joining PASOK or something but in politics there is always a large element of self-deception. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Independent: Tsipras shows his Machiavellian streak
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-news-alexis-tsipras-shows-his-machiavellian-streak-in-a-purge-of-syriza-rebels-10399042.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
