Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * No, what Andy described is *disruption*. There is a huge difference. While all violence is disruptive and anti-democratic, not all disruption is violence. I understand Andy is pissed, and rightfully so. In fact what was WWP even doing there but to disrupt the event? But violence is a qualitatively different thing. If they PUSHED people, hit them, etc as they did in the 1970s (they are a totally different group now and have been for 37 years) or the way the Larouchites did, that would violence. David _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The definition of the word "violence" has expanded, and rightly so, and so we could well call this shameless disruption of of an event supporting the amazing work of the WH, by a bunch of arrogant, self-aggrandising western tyrant-boot-lickers, "violence". Or perhaps not. One thing is for sure though: "violent" or otherwise, if the organisers had decided to violently eject these scum, they would have been fully justified. The self-restraint was amazing. -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2017 2:56 PM To: Michael Karadjis Subject: Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS! POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Workers World in Houston physically attacked demonstrations back in the early 1970s, initiating it all by accepting a debate over antiwar strategy and then disrupting it. I viewed that, at the time and since, as a local aberration--the result of WWP's having recruited a preexisting local group with its own peculiar ideas about how to go about having an impact. Even then, though, the responsibility falls on the organization to reign in people if they're doing what the organization doesn't want done. ml On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/3/17 8:29 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: Fine. So next time you speak from the floor I'll just walk up and down in front of you with a poster blocking your face. No problem, right? Yeah, I had that done to me in effect by Vivek Chibber. He's an asshole but I wouldn't consider that "violence". _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt ions/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/mkaradjis%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Workers World in Houston physically attacked demonstrations back in the early 1970s, initiating it all by accepting a debate over antiwar strategy and then disrupting it. I viewed that, at the time and since, as a local aberration--the result of WWP's having recruited a preexisting local group with its own peculiar ideas about how to go about having an impact. Even then, though, the responsibility falls on the organization to reign in people if they're doing what the organization doesn't want done. ml On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > On 3/3/17 8:29 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: > >> >> Fine. So next time you speak from the floor I'll just walk up and down in >> front of you with a poster blocking your face. No problem, right? >> >> > Yeah, I had that done to me in effect by Vivek Chibber. He's an asshole > but I wouldn't consider that "violence". > > > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt > ions/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/3/17 8:29 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: Fine. So next time you speak from the floor I'll just walk up and down in front of you with a poster blocking your face. No problem, right? Yeah, I had that done to me in effect by Vivek Chibber. He's an asshole but I wouldn't consider that "violence". _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Fine. So next time you speak from the floor I'll just walk up and down in front of you with a poster blocking your face. No problem, right? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/3/17 8:21 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: They physically pushed their way back and forth through the crowd and the musicians during the performance. That is not violence. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * They physically pushed their way back and forth through the crowd and the musicians during the performance. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/3/17 8:11 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: With this PHYSICAL disruption (the word of choice of RT) of a White Helmets' event in Grand Central, the Stalinists of the Hands Off Syria Coalition have put themselves beyond the pale. There is a long-standing tradition against violence within the movements of workers' and the oppressed. The Workers World thugs who violated this tradition have shown they cannot be trusted to share platforms, meetings or demonstrations with activists seeking to advance progressive causes. WWP is awful but I saw no violence. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] NO STALINIST VIOLENCE IN OUR MOVEMENTS!
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * With this PHYSICAL disruption (the word of choice of RT) of a White Helmets' event in Grand Central, the Stalinists of the Hands Off Syria Coalition have put themselves beyond the pale. There is a long-standing tradition against violence within the movements of workers' and the oppressed. The Workers World thugs who violated this tradition have shown they cannot be trusted to share platforms, meetings or demonstrations with activists seeking to advance progressive causes. If the Grand Central event had been properly marshalled the Stalinists could have been stopped; we must ensure this oversight is not repeated. (And let's not forget that it's the genocidal violence of their leader Assad that caused the flight, death and wounding of millions of Syrians, the very ones with Workers World claims to support once they're refugees. Please share this widely, alert comrades to the danger of thug violence. https://www.rt.com/usa/379391-anti-syrian-war-protest-disrupts/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
