Re: [Marxism] On Tsirpas
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * > On Jul 6, 2015, at 4:41 AM, Stuart Munckton via Marxism > wrote: > > > Again the problem is this is read through a certain lens. And gets to the > heart of what is a "sell out" etc. I think Tsipras genuinely wants a deal > and is trying to get the best deal he can. that is what he says. that, for > the matter, is what the supposedly "more hardline" Varoufakis says > *repeatedly* whenever asked. I think the reason is a weighing up of the > consequences of each decisions, combined with popular views. > > That is what they always said and everything they have done is in this > direction. Of course, they won't do a deal *at any price*, as we have just > seen. But I think this is weighing up the reality that a grexit is not > necessarily automatically going to improve their position, and certainly, > unless it is widely understood as the Troika's fault, could badly affect > Syriza's standing. But also it is about understanding that there is no real > way to improve their position without a breakthrough elsewhere in Europe, > or with more more pressure across Europe on the ruling classes to force a > backdown. > > Regardless of whether you think this approach is right or wrong, there is > no "back down" from their *actual position* involved in offering > concessions, or a "sell out". if you pretend to be one thing and do > another, you may be a sell-out. But this is the course they have always > advocated and, we have seen, they are willing to be very firm on the > principles underpinning it -- even if we concluded the approach is > strategically wrong. My impression also. Concretely, I think the Tspiras leadership is seeking debt relief and an end to the vicious austerity which has smashed the living standards of the Greek masses as its immediate priorities. This requires the troika of creditors to write off and postpone interest payments far into the future and to allow more room for government spending by abandoning the current targets for primary budget surpluses, ie. fiscal "restraint". In exchange, as the Tsipras letter leaked to the press last week indicated, it has promised to implement the nefarious "structural reforms" demanded by euro-capitalism, beginning with lifting impediments to the employment of cheap, transient labour markets which would weaken the power of trade unions, rolling back pension benefits, raising consumption taxes (the VAT), and proceeding with the privatization of important public assets. However, these "reforms" require further elaboration, negotiation, and parliamentary approval and the devil will lie in the details, with the government seeking to fudge and soften their impact during this process, or at least hoping it can do so. The final shape these concessions will take will largely depend on the evolving relationship of forces within Greece and within the other debtor countries of the eurozone, within both the ruling and popular classes. The troika has transparently behaved like an arrogant bullying employer supremely confident it could cow its workers and destroy any resistance by their not fully compliant union. Instead, it has provoked an angry worker backlash and the equivalent of a strengthened strike mandate to their union. Whether this miscalculation by the euro-capitalist hard-liners will result in an acknowledgement that some accommodation with Syriza is now necessary to stabilize the Greek situation and prevent the referendum example from inspiring resistance elsewhere in the eurozone remains to be seen. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] On Tsirpas
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * > > > > Well I hope you are right Sheldon. My analysis was based on the offer > Tsirpas made at the last minute. Mind you I was heavily influenced by the > Guardian headline which said "Tsirpas climbs down". Also, Galbraith hinted > that Tsirpas sidelined Varoufakis and put more concession minded > negotiators in charge. > > As well as the obvious danger of taking angles and spin from corporate press on face value, there is another danger here. Tsipras *did* replace Varoufakis as head of negotiating team, and this *was* spun as "taking a softer line". But what Tsipras, other commentatots speaking to Syriza and Varoufakis themselves all said was it was simply to remove a false argument. The creditors were saying they couldn't work with Varoufakis, he was too confrontational etc etc. So Syriza said fine -- you can work with someone different. There was no obvious change *at all* in Syriza's actual approach, and Varoufakis is not one to be silent, if he disagreed with things he would say (as he has at times). Syriza are trying to prove to Greek people and to other people, that they are doing what they can to get the best deal, and that all of the intransigence is on the other side. Why let *an individual* get in the way? It is a false argument, a straw argument, to say "Varoufakis is the problem" -- though one that plays on his public persona - so they got rid of it. This is important given what has just happened -- with Varoufakis resigning as finance minister. Through the prism of bourgeois politics, it makes no sense. Varoufakis is at the height of his political powers, his capital could not be higher after that win. He is hugged and mobbed when he appears on the street. It *also* can't really be understood if viewed as "he was pushed out" as some sort of back down. I don't believe Varoufakis would just go if he thought it would mean caving to the troika. And he wouldn't *have* to go either, he would be very difficult to remove if he didn't want to be removed. So when he says he is going to make it as easy as possible for the government to negotiate, to avoid all false arguments, I thikn the safest bet is take his word at face value. I thikn his explanation that this is a tactical decision to call out the troika's attempts to divert attention by saying they can't worth with Yanis to say fine, you don't have to. Now negotiate properly. > If the Troika had accepted his last minute offer, then that would have > destroyed him and his party and demoralized the people. A hell of a > bluff, I would call that. But maybe you have access to more information > than myself. In any case, this is a victory for the people. And that is > what we must now concentrate on. > Again the problem is this is read through a certain lens. And gets to the heart of what is a "sell out" etc. I think Tsipras genuinely wants a deal and is trying to get the best deal he can. that is what he says. that, for the matter, is what the supposedly "more hardline" Varoufakis says *repeatedly* whenever asked. I think the reason is a weighing up of the consequences of each decisions, combined with popular views. That is what they always said and everything they have done is in this direction. Of course, they won't do a deal *at any price*, as we have just seen. But I think this is weighing up the reality that a grexit is not necessarily automatically going to improve their position, and certainly, unless it is widely understood as the Troika's fault, could badly affect Syriza's standing. But also it is about understanding that there is no real way to improve their position without a breakthrough elsewhere in Europe, or with more more pressure across Europe on the ruling classes to force a backdown. Regardless of whether you think this approach is right or wrong, there is no "back down" from their *actual position* involved in offering concessions, or a "sell out". if you pretend to be one thing and do another, you may be a sell-out. But this is the course they have always advocated and, we have seen, they are willing to be very firm on the principles underpinning it -- even if we concluded the approach is strategically wrong. VBut even more than that -- the point around the world is not to focus on betrayal or sell-out or even cheering their strategy on. It is understanding that, whatever their strategy is and its strengths and weaknesses, they are carrying it out under the most intense blackmail and sabotage imaginable and the KEY thing is that must end. They must stop their economic war on Greece. How those facing war, those with guns against their hand, those taking the most savage beating seek to end or ease t
[Marxism] On Tsirpas
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Sheldon, greetings from Down Under and thank you for your comment. Sheldon wrote "and there is no proof that Tsipras is some sort of sell-out, your claims notwithstanding. All along, Tzipras' offer of concessions was a bluff. He knew that the Troika would reject them, so he 'offered' them knowing that the Troika's arrogant rejection of them would galvanize the Greek electorate into giving him a majority during the ensuing referendum. Getting a majority was crucial since Syriza itself won less than a majority during its initial election victory." Well I hope you are right Sheldon. My analysis was based on the offer Tsirpas made at the last minute. Mind you I was heavily influenced by the Guardian headline which said "Tsirpas climbs down". Also, Galbraith hinted that Tsirpas sidelined Varoufakis and put more concession minded negotiators in charge. If the Troika had accepted his last minute offer, then that would have destroyed him and his party and demoralized the people. A hell of a bluff, I would call that. But maybe you have access to more information than myself. In any case, this is a victory for the people. And that is what we must now concentrate on. comradely Gary _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
